Why the bible is most assuredly not a Catholic book,

[Hisalone]

and how do you explain that St John had authority over them?

were they preaching different gospel?

Was John the Bishop of Rome?
Did not Paul instruct Romans? Where was the Bishop of Rome?

Again they had allowed practices that were contrary to those of Christians whether sexual imorality or food offered to idols making claims that they are Jews falsely
are the true Jews, sound familar.

But not false gospel which would be to teach that it is something other than Christ who saves

 

[Belfarmer]

Why? Because Martin Luther himself said so:

“We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists [Catholics] - that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it.” (Commentary on St. John, ch. 16.)

Luther in this passage supports the assertion that the Bible is a Catholic book. What better authority do you need than Luther himself?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Was John the Bishop of Rome?
Did not Paul instruct Romans? Where was the Bishop of Rome?

Again they had allowed practices that were contrary to those of Christians whether sexual imorality or food offered to idols making claims that they are Jews falsely
are the true Jews, sound familar.

But not false gospel which would be to teach that it is something other than Christ who saves

Paul instruct the Romans and Peter too was in Rome. The Catholic Church does not teach false doctrine. It’s the Protestants who came up with new doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Faith Alone, which no Early Christians in the first Century, and centuries after that.

 

[po18guy]

Vereration has led to adoration

“or of anything on the earth”

Certainly the Isrealites saw what was on the earth.
It is mans tendancy to cling to idols. That is much of the OT is about. A departure of the true God to embrace idols to be chastised to repent return to the true God only to go back to idols.

Put away your idols!

It is you that calls them idols. Do you know our hearts? Do not make yourself omniscient, as only God knows our hearts. It is your lack of understanding that causes your fear. Why not first pray for understanding. It will be given to you. Until then, you reveal only your lack of understanding of the church Christ founded.

Before speaking, pray for understanding. It is that important.

 

[po18guy]

Yes. Like veneration of the Bible has led to sola scriptura.

“or of anything on the earth”

Certainly the Isrealites saw what was on the earth.
It is mans tendancy to cling to idols. That is much of the OT is about.

and Christ brought the NT.

I have. I went from Protestantism and embraced Orthodoxy.

So true. One poster refers to his bible as the “rock foundation”. I note that his “foundation” is made of paper and cardboard. Inspired though its words may be, it remains a man-made object. Without proper instruction, veneration becomes adoration becomes worship. This most certainly has occurred in many bible churches which have no teaching authority.

Thus, the living teaching authority, guided by the Holy Spirit, becomes all the more important.

Christ’s peace.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

They were in fact independent.
Were te Ethiopians under Rome? No.
Again you fail.

Actually, up until the great schism in the late 900’s all churches were with Rome ( I said with, Catholics and Orthodox can question to what disagree that is a battle for another thread ). They were not independent churches They were THE Church that is in Ethiopia, THE Church that is in Corinthia, ETC… they were not just the church of ( name city) They were all part of THE Church. And the Church in ( name of city) included all the gathering places in that area. Each area under a Bishop chosen by I believe the other bishops as the need arose as it was passed to them from the Apostles who received if from Christ.

Each Christian is not his own little bishop. Of all those that were followers of Christ he chose 12 to give his Authority to and ave passed that on thought the life of THE Church to those selected not to all believers. The Role and Authority which Christ gave to the Apostles is a burden few are can care. I thank God I do not have to be my own bishop.

 

[sarahpackars]

yes, it was written by Jews, that’s because they wrote it before the change to Christianity. that doesn’t make it a Catholic book, J.K. rowling is a Christian, but that doesn’t make Harry Potter a Christian book.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

yes, it was written by Jews, that’s because they wrote it before the change to Christianity. that doesn’t make it a Catholic book, J.K. rowling is a Christian, but that doesn’t make Harry Potter a Christian book.

The Bible is Catholic, heres how :

First before the cannon was compiled there was not bible.
second it was th Catholic Church that complied the Hebrew scripture and the writing of the apostles into a volume of books.

Bible= book of books.

Now if you want to argue that the books that comprise the Old testament are Jewish well of course they are. But when you take the entire work ( all books together ) it becomes a product of the Catholic Church.

 

[po18guy]

Hisalone, is fracturing of the Body of Christ somehow desirable? Was it taught by Christ? Was it taught or practiced by the Apostles? Was it honored, or was it strenuously fought against in the early church?

If any answer is no, then why persist in such behavior or desires? In separating from the Church of Christ, going one’s own way, finding or propounding doctrines that are acceptable to the ego, just how are you serving the cause of Christ?

Where is the denial of self here? Where is the taking up of one’s own cross daily? If you do not first deny yourself and then take up your cross, you cannot follow Christ. Christ said that. I believe Him, and I try to obey as best I can.

You may prefer doctrines which are more acceptable, but does that not make you resemble the John 6:66 followers who went their own way?

These questions may be rhetorical in nature, but shouldn’t you and I ponder them?

 

[wisdomseeker]

They were in fact independent.
Were te Ethiopians under Rome? No.
Again you fail.

i will add here if i may: hisalone where is your faith? if you can only accept what you can understand?

if you believe sola scripture and claim to undersstand SS, which i dont claim to understand but i obey and follow what the Church Jesus found teaches, where in SS says that if your brother falls one must leave the Church (found by Him) and go and find churches with a whole new set of believes? where is that in hte Bible? where in the Bible Jesus says I will build churches and each will have their own sets of different doctrines all guided by the by the HS?

please show where do you find these instructions in your sole scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

i will add here if i may: hisalone where is your faith? if you can only accept what you can understand?

if you believe sola scripture and claim to undersstand SS, which i dont claim to understand but i obey and follow what the Church Jesus found teaches, where in SS says that if your brother falls one must leave the Church (found by Him) and go and find churches with a whole new set of believes? where is that in hte Bible? where in the Bible Jesus says I will build churches and each will have their own sets of different doctrines all guided by the by the HS?

please show where do you find these instructions in your sole scripture.

 

[PerryJ]

yes, it was written by Jews, that’s because they wrote it before the change to Christianity. that doesn’t make it a Catholic book, J.K. rowling is a Christian, but that doesn’t make Harry Potter a Christian book.

The books of the Bible were written after the change to Christianty. Most believe they were written within the first 100 years. The Catholic Church defined what belonged in the Bible. There were many books that existed but were not included in the Bible. The first council to address the issue of the canon, Bible, was the Council of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus, and it included all of the 73 books we honor today. This canon was repeated at Hippo and Carthage (A.D.393 and 397), and has been repeated ever since.

It was not changed until Luther threw out seven of the Old Testament books because they conflicted with his thoughts and then he added the word alone to Romans.

To think the Bible is not Catholic is to ignore history. It really can’t be refuted.

 

[Zooey]

Was John the Bishop of Rome?

No; actually, he was the Bishop of the area where the congregations to which he wrote were located.
(You really do need to practice the “thinking it through” thing, yean).

Did not Paul instruct Romans?

Paul wrote to all believers everywhere.
He **was **the Apostle to the Gentiles, after all.

Where was the Bishop of Rome?

In Rome.

Again they had allowed practices that were contrary to those of Christians whether sexual imorality or food offered to idols making claims that they are Jews falsely
are the true Jews, sound familar.

And the Apostles rebuked those who sinned.
Unless you plan on pulling a very, very, old Apostle out of your hat…Your point, re:bishops would be– What exactly???

But not false gospel which would be to teach that it is something other than Christ who saves

And you see this happening…exactly how & where??
Because Catholics most surely teach that all who are saved, are saved by Jesus Christ, and His sacrifice on the cross.
Honest. More than a lot of the non-Catholics that I know.

Hisalone:

Put away your idols

“First remove the plank from your own eye, before you try to remove the speck that is in your own eye”.
It was good advice when the Man first said it; it is still good advice now.

And I will add a few words to it. Think of it as :twocents: from a Very Old Lady: You need to stop nailing yourself in the foot, laddie. You can get lockjaw that way.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

yes, it was written by Jews, that’s because they wrote it before the change to Christianity. that doesn’t make it a Catholic book, J.K. rowling is a Christian, but that doesn’t make Harry Potter a Christian book.

It was written by Hebrews before the change to rabbic Judaism and the Talmud. That doesn’t make it a Jewish book.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The Bible is Catholic, heres how :

First before the cannon was compiled there was not bible.
second it was th Catholic Church that complied the Hebrew scripture and the writing of the apostles into a volume of books.

Bible= book of books.

Now if you want to argue that the books that comprise the Old testament are Jewish well of course they are. But when you take the entire work ( all books together ) it becomes a product of the Catholic Church.

Actually the Old Testament itself is Catholic book. At the very latest, it was canonized by the 4th century. The Tanka, the Jewish Scriptures, was not fixed until the 7th century.

 

[SIA]

Yes. Like veneration of the Bible has led to sola scriptura.

come on. That is one of the weakest arguments I have heard against the Scriptures yet.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

come on. That is one of the weakest arguments I have heard against the Scriptures yet.

That’s because you have a paper idol.

 

[patti2]

The bible is Gods book to mankind entrusted to the Jews and followed by men of good will worldwide despite their religious affiliation.
Catholics have tried to replace Jews as Gods chosen people—heresy.
Now they want to claim the Jewish book as their own. Pretty petty behavious in my opinion.

Read the new testament again:
St. Peter converted 1000 jews to the Catholic faith. Jews had to convert to the new covenant law eternal of the messaih as was prophesied in the old testament in the book of Isaeh, Daniel … if they didn’t they would be condemned as Jesus quoted in Mark 16:16.
The Apostles did miracles so the people would believe and convert. You just don’t understand bible history and the prophesies. If you did your homework like I did and studied and look at the facts, you would understand because Jesus said he who seeks(the truth) shall find.
The Catholic church is universal and eternal. In the old testatment God’s first chosen people the Jews (Judaism) was not universal and not permanent. Judaism was at the time a shadow or shadows of what was coming in the future which will become eternal with the coming of the Messaih. I am sure the Jews were aware of these biblical prophesies.
With the coming of Jesus, some believed and some not. The rejecters of Jesus were of Bad will and did not accept the prophecies which was made so clear to them by Jesus. He repeated that he accomplished what was prophesied in the scriptures, that they had to believe him or else be condemned. The facts and the proofs Jesus set forth were there to see before their eyes and still the non believing Jews refused to believe.
So there, I hope I cleared some things and made you reflect and see a little better. God help you and have mercy on you.

True Catholic.

 

[PerryJ]

Catholic fallicy is that they insist on defining Community so that they are the only members of the Community or Congregation. They have done this in response to those who have rejected some of their claims. Thus Catolics assert they are thhe only "true congregation/or only true community. Which is of couse false. Any Chrisitian who has Christ—many , many Catholics do not, for that matter many Protestants do not either, but any Christian who has Christ is part of Christs Community or Christs Congregation.

It is not the Catholics. It is in the Bible. Are their not verses against schism? Does not Christ give authority to the Pope in the Bible? Yes, very clearly. Just because one ignores the parts of the Bible they do not like doesn’t make it untrue. Is not the authority of the Pope clearly demonstrated by the early Church? Yes it is as we have clear documentation.

St. Irenaus “The presiding church in the place of the land of the Romans”
St. Cyprian “one church and one see founded by the Lord; voice of Peter. No other alter can be setup, no new priesthood be made, except the one altar and one priesthood. Whoever gathers elsewhere scatters…one church founded by Christ our Lord on Peter, by the source and reason unity.
Opatatus of Milevis statement to Donatist “How can you pretend to have the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, who sacrilegiously fight against the see of Peter by your presumption and impudence.
St. Ambrose “Roman Church is the head of the whole world.”

St. Irenaus was in the year 107. Several decades after Christ’s death we have clear documentation that Rome and the Pope had authority. If the Pope did not have authority why did not St. Peter’s power not tranfer to John as he was still alive in Ephasus. It is because the Pope was given authority by Christ.

Their have been heresies from the beginning of the Church. We have had the Gnostics, Arian schism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, schism of Cerularius, heresies of Albigensians and now the Reformation. All the schisms listed thought they understood the word of the Lord better than the Church. They all splintered and divided into nothingness just as the Protestant religions are doing now. They bicker amongst themselves fight over homosexual marriage and abortion. They slowly get less morality and stray farther and farther from the truth. We have Catholics within our Church that do the same; however, as the rest of the world folds to contraceptives and homosexaul marriages the true Church will hold fast because Christ gave us this promise. The gates of hell will not prevaill against you. It doesn’t say the gates of hell will not prevail against the 30,000 individually divided churches doing their own thing. There is just one Church with the total truth

 

[mercygate]

The bible is Gods book to mankind entrusted to the Jews and followed by men of good will worldwide despite their religious affiliation.
Catholics have tried to replace Jews as Gods chosen people—heresy.
Now they want to claim the Jewish book as their own. Pretty petty behavious in my opinion.

How is it heresy to believe that the Messiah has come in the Person of Jesus Christ and that His Kingdom IS “God’s chosen people?” Viewing the DNA of Jews (absent the tribes that got scrambled and gentilized in the Northern Kingdom and exiles) as a guarantee of “nationhood” and the sole recipient of the promise of Abraham is contrary to the mission of the Messiah to fulfill the “blessing” of Abraham to all nations.

“God is ablefrom these stones to raise up children to Abraham.” Mt. 3:9

“It is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.” Gal 3:7