Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms

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Rosalinda:
Originally posted by Nohome

from paragraph 3 of Evangelium Vitae by Pope JPII, 1995

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02ev.htm

Surely no one here is suggesting prostitution is a compassionate solution to the problem of hunger. How perverted can a man’s thinking be to think he is doing a poor woman a favor because he wears a condom while exploiting her body?

Children by the millions are orphans in Africa precisely because the great condom campaign has been a disaster. Even scientists who have seriously reviewed the evidence have come to that same conclusion despite their liberal leaning and bias. They are facing the truth.
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NOHOME refueses to discuss Hamanae Vitae-I go a when I bought it up.

AIDs policy in Africa has failed becuase of the condescending attitude world organizations have taken with Africans. They treat them like little children who can not be trusted to make informed decisions when the facts are laid out to them. Instead the policy has been throw condoms at the problem and chalk up the increase in AIDs to a meddling Catholic Church and the child like ignorance of Africans.
 
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Aquarius:
If 90 out of 100 people avoid AIDs then condoms are effective in reducing the epidemic.

The CDC says they are effective against AIDS. I think the CDC knows a bit more than the Cardinal in question.
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I would offer 2 points.
  1. The ends never justify the means no matter how one chooses to use statistics.
  2. We cannot separate medical care from moral truth.
 
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fix:
I would offer 2 points.
  1. The ends never justify the means no matter how one chooses to use statistics.
  2. We cannot separate medical care from moral truth.
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AMEN!
 
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Rosalinda:
Even scientists who have seriously reviewed the evidence have come to that same conclusion despite their liberal leaning and bias. They are facing the truth.
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Please, provide a link.
 
Originally posted by Aquarius
Using a condom with a prostitute is doing her a great favor. It reduces the probability she will contract HIV.
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The man is protecting himself; he could care less about the woman; to him she is only an object. The compassionate response would be to treat her as a human being in the first place. A woman engaged in prostitution is already one of the walking dead; she more than likely already has several STD’s. Every man that uses her, condom or no condom, is shortening her life span; endangering his life, his wife’s and the future of his children who will be left orphans when all is said and done. Any man who thinks he is doing the woman a favor is a selfish hypocrite.

A real man exercises a strong will, manifests character, imposes self-discipline on himself and practices the virtue of chastity according to his state in life. While I realize the secular states will use condoms as a safeguard for the marginalized I still lament the dehumanization of prostitution. Jesus came to set the captives free and showed great mercy to all the women He encountered; never uttering a single harsh word to any woman. In like manner the Church today seeks to heal all her children: especially the weakest, the poorest and the most vulnerable. A responsible secular government enables men to realize their full spiritual dimension; does not encourage vice nor foster all the faults to which men are inclined.
 
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Rosalinda:
Here is an article with more background and an historical perspective entitled, “Uganda Leads by Example on Aids” by Tom Carter for The Washington Times:
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From the link you provided.

“It is not ‘abstinence only’ or ‘condoms only.’ Both are needed. There is a need for condoms, if A and B fail. Some people will never change their behavior,” said Edward C. Green, a Harvard University anthropologist who is at the forefront of bringing attention to ABC.

“Condoms play a role.”

That is all anyone is saying.

Nohome
 
Thank you Nohome. I read the entire article and was aware it supported many of your arguments. Nevertheless, overall the emphasis of the Ugandan model is the common sense approach the Catholic Church has promulgated from the beginning.
 
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estesbob:
NOHOME refueses to discuss Hamanae Vitae-I go a when I bought it up.

AIDs policy in Africa has failed becuase of the condescending attitude world organizations have taken with Africans. They treat them like little children who can not be trusted to make informed decisions when the facts are laid out to them. Instead the policy has been throw condoms at the problem and chalk up the increase in AIDs to a meddling Catholic Church and the child like ignorance of Africans.
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Africans are free to abstain. However, we don’t see that.
 
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fix:
I would offer 2 points.
  1. The ends never justify the means no matter how one chooses to use statistics.
  2. We cannot separate medical care from moral truth.
Click to expand...
But we can present the truth about the effectiveness of condoms in reducing the probability of contracting HIV.
 
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Rosalinda:
Originally posted by Aquarius

The man is protecting himself; he could care less about the woman; to him she is only an object. The compassionate response would be to treat her as a human being in the first place. A woman engaged in prostitution is already one of the walking dead; she more than likely already has several STD’s. Every man that uses her, condom or no condom, is shortening her life span; endangering his life, his wife’s and the future of his children who will be left orphans when all is said and done. Any man who thinks he is doing the woman a favor is a selfish hypocrite.

A real man exercises a strong will, manifests character, imposes self-discipline on himself and practices the virtue of chastity according to his state in life. While I realize the secular states will use condoms as a safeguard for the marginalized I still lament the dehumanization of prostitution. Jesus came to set the captives free and showed great mercy to all the women He encountered; never uttering a single harsh word to any woman. In like manner the Church today seeks to heal all her children: especially the weakest, the poorest and the most vulnerable. A responsible secular government enables men to realize their full spiritual dimension; does not encourage vice nor foster all the faults to which men are inclined.
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Using a condom reduces the probability the prostitute will contract HIV regardless of the thoughts of the man.

Many prostitutes in the US demand a condom. They listen to the CDC.
 
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Aquarius:
But we can present the truth about the effectiveness of condoms in reducing the probability of contracting HIV.
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We can say statistics apply to the population in general, but in particular when one becomes infected such stats really do not help at all. Playing the odds came in a situation like this is irresponsible. Why is it so critical one must risk their body and soul based on one particular item when a good alternative exists?

So, I am saying presenting the evidence must be done in perspective and not skewed in the direction of moral error.
 
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fix:
We can say statistics apply to the population in general, but in particular when one becomes infected such stats really do not help at all. Playing the odds came in a situation like this is irresponsible. Why is it so critical one must risk their body and soul based on one particular item when a good alternative exists?

So, I am saying presenting the evidence must be done in perspective and not skewed in the direction of moral error.
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I agree the stats apply to a population in general.

However, I think the stats are very relevant after one is infected. Use of a condom reduces the probability an infected person will spread the disease. Sex by an infected person without a condom is how the disease spreads.

There are three basic options. Abstinence, sex with condoms, sex without condoms.

There is a subset of the population that will not consider abstinence. This is also the subset that spreads HIV. For that subset they reduce their probability of contracting HIV by using condoms.

The medical evidence exists regardless of any moral standard. People should know that evidence. If someone then wants to apply a moral standard in deciding their own actions, they are free to do so.
 
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Rosalinda:
Nohome

Yes, I did in post 100; you must have missed it.
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Indeed I did, sorry. From this link I found the following:

“Faith-based organizations are enthusiastic about A and B, but for moral reasons, they fear — with little evidence to back it up — that C, condom promotion, may open the door to increased sexual activity among young people. In the public health community that embraces C, there is considerable resistance to emphasis on A and B. Many USAID workers worry that ABC is a cover for an “abstinence-only” policy.”

Obviously, the RCC is on the outside looking in when it comes to public health issues. Do you have any links that refute that condoms are part of solving the AIDS crisis?

Nohome
 
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estesbob:
Why? When links are provided you
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Your link, to HV, mearly recites the RCC company line. It does nothing to refute the fact that condoms are part of the solution to the AIDS crisis. Guess I expected more from someone so wise in the realm of counseling.

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
Your link, to HV, mearly recites the RCC company line. It does nothing to refute the fact that condoms are part of the solution to the AIDS crisis. Guess I expected more from someone so wise in the realm of counseling.

Nohome
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Excuse me-the topic of this thread is "Re: Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms’ Humanae Vitae eloquently teaches why condom use is wrong. Condom usage is NOT part of the solution to AIDS-abstinence except in a commited monogamous relationship is the ONLY solution to the spread of AIDS.

I take you have NO experience in couseling in this area or you wouldnt make such trite, uninformed statements about my experience. I have talked to way too many pregnant and/or infected teens who had bought into the lie of “safe sex” that you seem to promote. It doesnt work here and it doesnt work in Africa.
 
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estesbob:
Excuse me-the topic of this thread is "Re: Why the Catholic Church Is Wise to Ban Condoms’ Humanae Vitae eloquently teaches why condom use is wrong. Condom usage is NOT part of the solution to AIDS-abstinence except in a commited monogamous relationship is the ONLY solution to the spread of AIDS.

I take you have NO experience in couseling in this area or you wouldnt make such trite, uninformed statements about my experience. I have talked to way too many pregnant and/or infected teens who had bought into the lie of “safe sex” that you seem to promote. It doesnt work here and it doesnt work in Africa.
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Actually, condoms have worked very well here in reducing the spread of HIV. That’s why we are spreading the good news to Africa.

There seems to be an attitude among some people that any tactic that is not 100% effective should not be used. I’m not sure why they take this attitude towards lowering risk and reducing disease.

Abstinence works just fine for the portion of the population that embraces it. The condoms are aimed at the portion that does not.

Here’s a thought. If an HIV vaccine were developed who would recommend making it available to everyone, including Africans?
 
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Aquarius:
Here’s a thought. If an HIV vaccine were developed who would recommend making it available to everyone, including Africans?
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Of course I would? Why would anyone object? You can get AIDs in other ways than promiscouity
 
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estesbob:
Of course I would? Why would anyone object? You can get AIDs in other ways than promiscouity
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I agreee. I would get the vaccine. Who else would be vaccinated?
 
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