Why Would A Catholic Vote For A ProChoice Canidate?

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To me it simply comes down to one thing - if I call myself
a practicing Catholic (I do) then what issue would be the most
important to the Lord. There is no question in my mind that
abortion would be it. So I have to live out my faith seven
days a week, not just on Sunday. If I am a follower of Christ
I must vote like one, and that means voting for the most pro-life
person there is. Nothing else is more important that human
life, period. It is very sad to me that Catholics would put other
issues ahead of the unborn.
 
No excuse is too far, every position can be reasoned, and any spin is fact, thats all ya gotta know, just take it for what it is. Otherwise you’re blood pressure is just gonna keep goin up LOL.
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Ah don’t worry, there are renin inhibitors (actually it is not plural; only one is on the market and it is marketed by Novartis), angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors, and angiotensin II receptor antagonists for that, but you oppose programs giving those to low income people now do you?
That is not my bottom line. The bottom line for me is that life lost in abortion is no MORE important to me than the life lost in war. (Or the lives of people who are hurt by that loss.) Now, numbers-wise…I don’t see where Bush saved MORE lives with the partial birth abortion ban than he caused with this senseless war.
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Edited to add that the only reason I mentioned the war again is because it directly related to my position of how I value lives lost either via abortion or war. IOW, Bush may have saved a few lives with the PBA ban, but caused many more than he saved. I think that point is valid for this thread. I think to discuss the MERITS of the war would derail it. Just wanted to clarify.
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Don’t think the partial birth abortion ban is a significant victory for the pro-life movement. However, it is a significant LOSS for the “abortion on demand” advocates such as NARAL. Most people are not enthusiastic about supporting partial birth abortion including me, and I do not consider myself “pro-life” in the standard use of the word.

Also, the partial birth abortion ban was more of a political victory for the Republicans.
 
I applaud your decision to vote as the Lord would have us vote, however, I believe that God also requires that we work for the common good - social conditions that are necessary for human persons, both individually and in communities, to fulfill the end for which we are all created. The common good includes peace and safety, respect for persons, and the social well-being and development of the group (community). We are called to ensure that each and every person must have access to at least the basic necessities of sufficient food, shelter and clothing.

My point was - in my original post - was that there are many other issues that our world community must address in order to live as Christ taught us to live. The right-to-life for ALL is a very important issue, but as Catholics we cannot ignore the social teachings of the Church either. The Church teaches us that for those who cannot provide for themselves, justice requires that those of us with abundance share with those who have little or nothing. Sacred Scripture teaches us that this is the ultimate test of our faith.

Peace!🙂
 
pdelcecatodixon said:
I applaud your decision to vote as the Lord would have us vote, however, I believe that God also requires that we work for the common good - social conditions that are necessary for human persons, both individually and in communities, to fulfill the end for which we are all created. The common good includes peace and safety, respect for persons, and the social well-being and development of the group (community). We are called to ensure that each and every person must have access to at least the basic necessities of sufficient food, shelter and clothing.

My point was - in my original post - was that there are many other issues that our world community must address in order to live as Christ taught us to live. The right-to-life for ALL is a very important issue, but as Catholics we cannot ignore the social teachings of the Church either. The Church teaches us that for those who cannot provide for themselves, justice **requires that those of us with abundance share with those who have little or nothing. **Sacred Scripture teaches us that this is the ultimate test of our faith.

Peace!🙂
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The Church does not teach us that we have to use government programs to achieve this…IMO that is the way of avoiding taking personal action. I am pro-life and don’t ignore the Church’s social teaching…I just don’t believe that federally based socialism is the way to achieve it. 👍
 
rlg94086 said:
The Church does not teach us that we have to use government programs to achieve this…IMO that is the way of avoiding taking personal action. I am pro-life and don’t ignore the Church’s social teaching…I just don’t believe that federally based socialism is the way to achieve it. 👍
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Don’t be deluded, humans are not extremely charitable.

The United States is already very unequal. It has a high gini coefficient of .40 in disposible income.

census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-232.pdf
 
ribozyme said:
Don’t be deluded, humans are not extremely charitable.

The United States is already very unequal. It has a high gini coefficient of .40 in disposible income.

census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-232.pdf
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I’m not deluded. I’m living Christ’s commandments. You are off-topic. This is about voting pro-life/pro-choice and has nothing to do with your pet argument that charity isn’t enough.
 
I have a few questions for those Catholics who would vote for a “Pro-Choice” candidate…
Would you vote for a candidate who was Pro-Terrorism?

Would you treat Pro-Terrorism as just one of many issues to look at for a candidate OR would you disqualify from considering to vote for that candidate because he/ or she is Pro-Terrorism?

Abortion has killed over 45 million people in the United States to date right now. How could you just consider this one of many issues?

Name me any issue or combination of issues which have killed over 45 million people to date in the United States right now?

No other issues are even pertinent if you don’t have LIFE!
 
BamaRider said:
In post #586 I said-

Then Boppaid sez -

I rest my case.
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And some people will continue to believe that only the lives of unborn are worth our vote. Even when presented with arguments that the number of lives saved by a PBA ban far less number the number of deaths in war with Iraq. I guess I rest my case as well.
😉
 
Donna_Mc said:
To me it simply comes down to one thing - if I call myself
a practicing Catholic (I do) then what issue would be the most
important to the Lord. There is no question in my mind that
abortion would be it. So I have to live out my faith seven
days a week, not just on Sunday. If I am a follower of Christ
I must vote like one, and that means voting for the most pro-life
person there is. Nothing else is more important that human
life, period. It is very sad to me that Catholics would put other
issues ahead of the unborn.
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I see your point, and I understand what you are saying. But why would a baby’s life be more important of an issue to our Lord than a soldier’s life? I guess that’s my thing. I believe that some politicians (Bush, specifically) will give lip service to the pro-life crowd, but then the bottom line is that the best he can do is a PBA bad (which I’m glad he did, don’t get me wrong). But then, he institutes a war that causes more death than he saves with the PBA ban. In my opinion, it’s hypocritical. I believe our Lord value’s the Iraqi and American’s soldiers lives (not to mention civilians’) AS MUCH as the unborn.

It comes down to personal conscience, I suppose. If it were possible for a political candidate to outlaw abortion completely, it’d be a different story. But we’ve had 8 years of a man who opposes it, yet not much accomplished. IMO, these 8 years have done more harm than good from a “pro-life” standpoint (prolife, meaning all life).
 
boppaid said:
And some people will continue to believe that only the lives of unborn are worth our vote. Even when presented with arguments that the number of lives saved by a PBA ban far less number the number of deaths in war with Iraq. I guess I rest my case as well.
😉
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For your argument to be valid, you’d have to be arguing against someone whose final and only goal was ending Partial Birth Abortion.

But the Pro-life movement is about more than that – the PBA ban is only a tiny step toward achieving a nation where the unborn are recognized as having the same right to life as the rest of us.
 
boppaid said:
And some people will continue to believe that only the lives of unborn are worth our vote. Even when presented with arguments that the number of lives saved by a PBA ban far less number the number of deaths in war with Iraq. I guess I rest my case as well.
😉
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bopaid,

I don’t want to see anyone killed in war but you really need to read Fr. Pavone’s piece on War vs. Abortion.

priestsforlife.org/columns/columns2004/04-06-14abortionvswar.htm

Also there have been over 45,000,000 people killed through abortion. I think there have been somewhere around 5,000 killed in the Iraqi War. One person killed is one too many but as you can see if you want to play a numbers game, you really have no argument here.
 
vern_humphrey said:
For your argument to be valid, you’d have to be arguing against someone whose final and only goal was ending Partial Birth Abortion.

But the Pro-life movement is about more than that – the PBA ban is only a tiny step toward achieving a nation where the unborn are recognized as having the same right to life as the rest of us.
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Good point. However, we also have to look at what’s possible. We don’t want to waste our votes on lip-service either.
 
boppaid said:
Good point. However, we also have to look at what’s possible. We don’t want to waste our votes on lip-service either.
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I see “lip service” everywhere – including things like health care, education and ending or dramatically reducing poverty. It’s not as if limiting abortion was the only issue where politicians are pushing ineffective solutions.
 
boppaid said:
Good point. However, we also have to look at what’s possible. We don’t want to waste our votes on lip-service either.
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I disagree with President Bush going into war in Iraq but his selections for Judges on the Supreme Court during his term was HUGE!

Justice Roberts and Justice Alito are most likely Pro-Life. That means we are only 1 justice away from getting Roe v Wade overturned. We also have a chance to convert so-called “Catholic” Justice Kennedy to act like a real “Catholic” on the bench.

I will gaurantee you will not see another President in the next 15 years get 2 Pro-Life Supreme Court justices on the bench.

When its all over President Bush’s legacy will be getting Justice Roberts and Alito on the bench.

PLAL
 
boppaid said:
I see your point, and I understand what you are saying. But why would a baby’s life be more important of an issue to our Lord than a soldier’s life? I guess that’s my thing. I believe that some politicians (Bush, specifically) will give lip service to the pro-life crowd, but then the bottom line is that the best he can do is a PBA bad (which I’m glad he did, don’t get me wrong). But then, he institutes a war that causes more death than he saves with the PBA ban. In my opinion, it’s hypocritical. I believe our Lord value’s the Iraqi and American’s soldiers lives (not to mention civilians’) AS MUCH as the unborn.

It comes down to personal conscience, I suppose. If it were possible for a political candidate to outlaw abortion completely, it’d be a different story. But we’ve had 8 years of a man who opposes it, yet not much accomplished. IMO, these 8 years have done more harm than good from a “pro-life” standpoint (prolife, meaning all life).
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Actually, I see your point…but make no mistake about it, a baby’s life is taken away from him and their choice to live is robbed from them before they begin to have a start in life, whereas if you or i , who are adults risking our lives , choose to defend this country. We at least have the choice from our own free will to do so. I know there’s injustice in every of facet of this world we live in but the greatest one of all is to take away the life of defenseless human being ( regardless at what age in life ). And I agree that politics is two-faced. Pilate himself asked God “What is Truth?” I don’t think the * truth* is in politics, but it’s all we have to make change for the better. I sympathize with you my friend. I think though by not voting for them ( those who advocates taking away life from any defenseless human being) will at least send them a message that we don’t like what they’ve ( we’ve) done to this world and to our country. Yes , we are all hypocrites, but at least we ( you and all of us here) are searching and trying to vote our consciences, even though politicians lie, that doesn’t matter though, because then it’s on their heads to make the right decisions. Anyway , I’ll let someone else talk now 😉 PRAY! Our prayers will be heard 🙂 PRAY ! He listens. And speak out your mind!
 
Herein lies the fundamental difference in our views Boppaid.

I happen to believe going to war with terrorists was justified, and the correct thing to do. Some here don’t, we can debate that issue till the cows come home. BUT no one here ( that I know of) will say abortion is open for debate. It is universally condemened.

You may justify your pro choice vote by aligning it with the war issue. I don’t. I’m just glad my party’s social agenda matches my foreign policy beliefs. But if that wasn’t true, I’d vote pro life, and figure out the rest later. I sleep quite well at night knowing MY guy, placed 2 conservative judges on the court, that will do the right thing if given the chance, and thankful the pro choice party was in no position to pick TWO of their guys.
 
boppaid said:
I see your point, and I understand what you are saying. But why would a baby’s life be more important of an issue to our Lord than a soldier’s life? I guess that’s my thing. I believe that some politicians (Bush, specifically) will give lip service to the pro-life crowd, but then the bottom line is that the best he can do is a PBA bad (which I’m glad he did, don’t get me wrong). But then, he institutes a war that causes more death than he saves with the PBA ban. In my opinion, it’s hypocritical. I believe our Lord value’s the Iraqi and American’s soldiers lives (not to mention civilians’) AS MUCH as the unborn.

It comes down to personal conscience, I suppose. If it were possible for a political candidate to outlaw abortion completely, it’d be a different story. But we’ve had 8 years of a man who opposes it, yet not much accomplished. IMO, these 8 years have done more harm than good from a “pro-life” standpoint (prolife, meaning all life).
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Actually, I see your point…but make no mistake about it, a baby’s life is taken away from him and their choice to live is robbed from them before they begin to have a start in life, whereas if you or i , who are adults risking our lives , choose to defend this country. We at least have the choice from our own free will to do so. I know there’s injustice in every of facet of this world we live in but the greatest one of all is to take away the life of defenseless human being ( regardless at what age in life ). And I agree that politics is two-faced. Pilate himself asked God “What is Truth?” I don’t think the * truth* is in politics, but it’s all we have to make change for the better. I sympathize with you my friend. I think though by not voting for them ( those who advocates taking away life from any defenseless human being) will at least send them a message that we don’t like what they’ve ( we’ve) done to this world and to our country. Yes , we are all hypocrites, but at least we ( you and all of us here) are searching and trying to vote our consciences, even though politicians lie, that doesn’t matter though, because then it’s on their heads to make the right decisions. Anyway , I’ll let someone else talk now 😉 PRAY! Our prayers will be heard And keep speaking out your mind !
 
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