Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses? Part 2

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kimg901 said:
Really? TK doesnt have to do anything to try and make smith look bad. Smith did it on his own. Anyone that can read with an open mind can see that smith was just a bad man out for himself. And I wouldnt even put smith name in with Abram, Moses, David and Paul. They were true prophets of the Lord, smith was not. Before you can think to yourself and say “yes he was”, ask yourself this, "If smith was a humble man and was doing Gods/Jesus work, why would he have said I have done more for the church than Christ or the Apostles have ever done? To me he sounds like a man motivated by his own means and was using God/Jesus to get what he wanted.
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Maybe you think Saul’s wives were going for a man with a higher calling?

“The second way in which a wife can be separated from her husband while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood I have not revealed except to a few persons in this church, and a few have received it from Joseph the Prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her, he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is. In either of these ways of separation you can discover there is no need for a bill of divorcement. To recapitulate: First, a man forfeits his covenant with a wife or wives, becoming unfaithful to his God and his priesthood—that wife or wives are free from him without a bill of divorcement. Second, if a woman claims protection at the hands of a man possessing more power in the priesthood and higher keys, if he is disposed to rescue her and has obtained the consent of her husband to make her his wife, he can do so without a bill of divorcement. If after she has left her husband and is sealed to another she shall again cohabit with him, it is illicit intercourse and extremely sinful…”

Goes along well, don’t you think, with Smith’s promises of ensured exaltation to women/girls he was grooming to “marry”.

To 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball he promised::

"The next morning Joseph visited the Kimball home. "[He explained] the principle of Celestial marrage…After which he said to me, ‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.‘] "

Yes, isn’t polygamy such a wonderful thing? It enables a married man in his 30’s to successfully groom a 14 year old.

You can just keep on willingly following this false prophet, deceived and enamored as a 14 year old girl.
 
RebeccaJ said:
“The second way in which a wife can be separated from her husband while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood I have not revealed except to a few persons in this church, and a few have received it from Joseph the Prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her, he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is. In either of these ways of separation you can discover there is no need for a bill of divorcement. To recapitulate: First, a man forfeits his covenant with a wife or wives, becoming unfaithful to his God and his priesthood—that wife or wives are free from him without a bill of divorcement. Second, if a woman claims protection at the hands of a man possessing more power in the priesthood and higher keys, if he is disposed to rescue her and has obtained the consent of her husband to make her his wife, he can do so without a bill of divorcement. If after she has left her husband and is sealed to another she shall again cohabit with him, it is illicit intercourse and extremely sinful…”

To 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball he promised::

"The next morning Joseph visited the Kimball home. "[He explained] the principle of Celestial marrage…After which he said to me, ‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.‘] "

Yes, isn’t polygamy such a wonderful thing? It enables a married man in his 30’s to successfully groom a 14 year old.

You can just keep on willingly following this false prophet, deceived and enamored as a 14 year old girl.
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Yeah such a wonderful thing what other church has taught women that they can sleep their way to the top of the celestial ladder, how could all the other churches miss such an important principle.:rolleyes:
 
mathonihah said:
That was a “boarding house,” meaning that it was a guesthouse, like a hotel. Nauvoo was a rapidly expanding city, and many visitors were coming to visit Joseph Smith and the saints, and the city didn’t have a guesthouse or hotel they could stay in. It wasn’t a place for Joseph Smith. It was to be built as a “joint venture,” with people paying various amounts of money as “stock” for the purpose of building the property, and each would be the “part owner” of the property depending on the amount of money they put in as stock for the building of it. Joseph Smith was no different from the rest. He too would be the part owner depending on how much money he decided to put in towards building it. If you took the trouble to read the revelation properly before criticising, you would know that.
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Ya a “boarding house” that JS and his family would live in for generations. As to Joseph putting his own money in, I don’t see why he would follow the rules laid down here any more than he did with the rules laid down about polygamy when he married women who were currently married. JS was running a one way wife swapping club.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Maybe you think Saul’s wives were going for a man with a higher calling?

“The second way in which a wife can be separated from her husband while he continues to be faithful to his God and his priesthood I have not revealed except to a few persons in this church, and a few have received it from Joseph the Prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her, he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is. In either of these ways of separation you can discover there is no need for a bill of divorcement. To recapitulate: First, a man forfeits his covenant with a wife or wives, becoming unfaithful to his God and his priesthood—that wife or wives are free from him without a bill of divorcement. Second, if a woman claims protection at the hands of a man possessing more power in the priesthood and higher keys, if he is disposed to rescue her and has obtained the consent of her husband to make her his wife, he can do so without a bill of divorcement. If after she has left her husband and is sealed to another she shall again cohabit with him, it is illicit intercourse and extremely sinful…”

Goes along well, don’t you think, with Smith’s promises of ensured exaltation to women/girls he was grooming to “marry”.

To 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball he promised::

"The next morning Joseph visited the Kimball home. "[He explained] the principle of Celestial marrage…After which he said to me, ‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.‘] "

Yes, isn’t polygamy such a wonderful thing? It enables a married man in his 30’s to successfully groom a 14 year old.

You can just keep on willingly following this false prophet, deceived and enamored as a 14 year old girl.
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Are folks this dumb to believe this nonsense? If all this is true, then smith is in hell. He denied the Holy Spirit (Trinity) and created his own gospel. And people still want to follow this man 🤷
 
zaffiroborant said:
Ya a “boarding house” that JS and his family would live in for generations. As to Joseph putting his own money in, I don’t see why he would follow the rules laid down here any more than he did with the rules laid down about polygamy when he married women who were currently married. JS was running a one way wife swapping club.
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Waco Texas anyone?
 
mathonihah said:
Polygamy is found, and approved by God. See my previous post.
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No one has shown scripture that has God speaking directly and approvingly of polygamy and Christ certainly did not approve it. Just because I don’t smack a 2 year old having a tantrum it doesn’t mean I approve of tantrum throwing.
 
Notice how, to this date, he has STILL not provided a NT verse from Jesus approving of polygamy.
 
TexanKnight said:
Notice how, to this date, he has STILL not provided a NT verse from Jesus approving of polygamy.
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That’s because the apostate church removed those parts, remember? The Bible is only as reliable as the LDS says it is.
 
TheIrishman said:
Is there even an OT scripture approving of polygamy?
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Ever heard of Commandments from God? The delusions Math is experiencing is the belief because it existed and was practiced- God approved of it? How dumb!
 
RebeccaJ said:
Funny, I thought one of your articles of faith says people are punished for their own sins.
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Do you think Exodus 34:6–7 is wrong then?
God has cleared the guilty, including you.
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The Bible teaches that God clears the guilty when they repent.
As I said, you deserve your puny god.
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You think it makes God puny to clear the guilty when they repent?
 
mathonihah said:
Do you think Exodus 34:6–7 is wrong then?
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I think Rebecca is saying that if you believe Exodus 34:6-7 to be right then it conflicts with the Mormon view that one is not punished for the sins of another, as in “original sin”.
 
SteveVH said:
That’s because the apostate church removed those parts, remember? The Bible is only as reliable as the LDS says it is.
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Show me one verse in the NT where Jesus condems polygamy. Remember, the Jews were polygamists, and some of his own disciples would have been.
 
mathonihah said:
I am glad you are beginning to see whose side you are on.
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You know, the one thing that is missing in the whole discussion on polygamy is the simple math. Yes, some of the Jew practiced polygamy, but there are some practical matters that limit polygamy to the rich for the simple reason that the average Joe doesn’t have the wherewithal to support more than one wife. More importantly, if every man was suppose to practice polygamy, whether in ancient Israel or America in the 19th century, there simply aren’t enough women to go around. There are going to be many men left without even one wife.

Even in regions where polygamy was and still is practiced, it is not and has not been common in any population, but rather limited to very rich and/or powerful among those populations. It also tends to take place in areas where women are thought of as property.

God did allow it, as has been said, but as Jesus pointed out, it was never God’s will anymore than divorce was God’s will.
 
SteveVH said:
I think Rebecca is saying that if you believe Exodus 34:6-7 to be right then it conflicts with the Mormon view that one is not punished for the sins of another, as in “original sin”.
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Which is beside the point. It still leaves open the question of whether she thinks Exodus 34:6-7 is correct doctrine or not.
 
SteveVH said:
You know, the one thing that is missing in the whole discussion on polygamy is the simple math. Yes, some of the Jew practiced polygamy, but there are some practical matters that limit polygamy to the rich for the simple reason that the average Joe doesn’t have the wherewithal to support more than one wife. More importantly, if every man was suppose to practice polygamy, whether in ancient Israel or America in the 19th century, there simply aren’t enough women to go around. There are going to be many men left without even one wife.

Even in regions where polygamy was and still is practiced, it is not and has not been common in any population, but rather limited to very rich and/or powerful among those populations. It also tends to take place in areas where women are thought of as property.

God did allow it, as has been said, but as Jesus pointed out, it was never God’s will anymore than divorce was God’s will.
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You are merely repeating a point that I had made before. What are you trying to prove by this?
 
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