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TexanKnight
Guest
still waiting for a NT verse from Jesus approving of polygamy…
and waiting…
and waiting…
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
Marrying other men’s wives is certainly not biblical, or Christian, does any other polygamous religion allow men to marry other men’s wives?
K
kimg901
Guest
Who are we to try and judge God or what God does? God does what God does. And why do you pick one verse out of the Bible? So what about God sending His Own Son to death? Do you agree with it, disagree, think its un/fair, un/just for Him to act in that way?
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TexanKnight
Guest
no…just that it was not a commandment in the NT and was a way for Joe to have all the sex he wanted.
But let us be clear, the LDS Church has NOT denounced polygamy, only the PRACTICE of it. They believe it exists in the afterlife.
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TexanKnight
Guest
Don’t forget, Joe wanted to have a foursome for sex with William Law and his wife.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Such a weaselly evasive childish retort. He made an attempt to reply you should man up and explain why your scripture directly contradicts Exodus 34:6–7. But I doubt you will since you demonstrated your insincerity with this reply.
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SteveVH
Guest
Excuse me? It is the Knox translation of the Latin Vulgate, certainly not a faulty translation.
Here is the Douay-Rheims version:
“And when he passed before him, he said: O the Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, patient and of much compassion, and true, [7] Who keepest mercy unto thousands: who takest away iniquity, and wickedness, and sin, and no man of himself is innocent before thee. Who renderest the iniquity of the fathers to the children, and to the grandchildren, unto the third and fourth generation.”
It doesn’t matter what translation you want to use. The point is the same. We deserve punishment but God is merciful. Read it.
Still waiting for your opinion of the meaning of the verses which you have thus far managed to avoid. So why don’t you give us any translation you wish, but please just answer the question.
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kimg901
Guest
Oh its still practiced TK. Come to Draper and Bluffdale, Utah and see the side show. Why are these folks not excommunicated from the church? Oh, its because it still must be taught.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
I didn’t think so. Perhaps you don’t know salvation history? In context vs 6&7 are when Moses received the law and God made a covenant with His people. This prefigured Christ who fulfills the law and has made a a New Covenant with his people. “His people” broadened from the Hebrews to all mankind. SteveVH also gave you the context of Salvation History.
St. Paul taught in his letter to the Romans, chapter 4:
8 But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.
9 How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath.
10 Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.
11 Not only that, but we also boast of God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
In addition, I get the idea,from your posts that you don’t understand when there was no law, sin was not accounted for. For example, when you point to practices before Moses, and apply to them the Mosaic laws. St. Paul says int the same letter, same chapter:
13 for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law.
14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin after the pattern of the trespass of Adam, who is the type of the one who was to come.
The law both brought accountability for sin and a means to bring the Hebrews to be reconciled with God. In Christ, the law is fulfilled. We are reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, not by obedience to the Mitzvah.
We are saved by grace, reconciled to God by the free gift of His Son. The Hebrews did not know this gift, as the full Word of God, Jesus Christ, had not yet been revealed. As Christians, we are hearers and doers of the Word, which doesn’t mean we are hearers and doers of the law.
St. Paul continues, in chapter 5:
Freedom from Sin; Life in God.
1 What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not!
2 How can we who died to sin yet live in it?
3 Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
5 For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin.
7 For a dead person has been absolved from sin.
8 If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
9 We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him.
10 As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God.
11 Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as [being] dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore, sin must not reign over your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires.k
13 And do not present the parts of your bodies to sin as weapons for wickedness, but present yourselves to God as raised from the dead to life and the parts of your bodies to God as weapons for righteousness.
14 For sin is not to have any power over you, since you are not under the law but under grace.
We are reconciled to God. Our God is not a puny god, a trickster, who Saves us one moment and then curses us and all our generations the next. Christ died for all. This means you,me, and all the generations of mankind. Jesus Christ is the evidence of God’s love and Mercy. He is where we abide. Not Joseph Smith or any other sinful man.
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SteveVH
Guest
Awesome.
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mathonihah
Guest
Not so smart. Here is another answer; perhaps you will like this one better:mathonihah;10823277:
:clapping:
If he thinks that is how the verse should be translated, where is the contradiction with the Articles of Faith that he wants me to explain?
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mathonihah
Guest
Just gave it another answer. Perhaps you will like this one better.
J
johntenbrink
Guest
Blind Men and the Elephant
(by John Godfrey Saxe)
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”
The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”
The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”
The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”
The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
(by John Godfrey Saxe)
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”
The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”
The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”
The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”
The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
T
TexanKnight
Guest
still waiting for a NT verse from Jesus approving of polygamy…
and waiting…
and waiting…
Come on, little fella. Don’t be so afraid
M
mathonihah
Guest
Waiting in vain. Show me one NT verse from Jesus disapproving of polygamy.
M
mtolympus
Guest
Why the personal attacks? I have no obligation to repond to any comment. And, I certainly have nothing to fear!
S
SteveVH
Guest
I am speaking of original sin. Sin being passed on to generations. Correct me if I’m wrong but you do not believe in original sin or infant Baptism because the child could not be stained with sin unless he committed the sin himself. Yet the scriptures tell us that sin can indeed be passed on to generations. That is why we enter into “covenant” with God and receive his mercy in Baptism, just as an eight day old infant was circumcised in order to enter into covenant after Abraham.
I will ask once again. Will you respond to the question? Agree or disagree, we still have not heard your take on this. Why do you keep avoiding the question?
M
mathonihah
Guest
Two answers to that. The first was already given: if you think that is how that verse should be translated, where is the contradiction with the Articles of Faith that you would like me to explain?
The second answer is, here are some alternate translations of that verse:
New International Version
maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation."
New Living Translation
I lavish unfailing love to a thousand generations. I forgive iniquity, rebellion, and sin. But I do not excuse the guilty. I lay the sins of the parents upon their children and grandchildren; the entire family is affected–even children in the third and fourth generations."
English Standard Version
keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.”
New American Standard Bible
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."
King James Bible
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
maintaining faithful love to a thousand generations, forgiving wrongdoing, rebellion, and sin. But He will not leave the guilty unpunished, bringing the consequences of the fathers’ wrongdoing on the children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation.
International Standard Version
He graciously loves thousands, and forgives iniquity, transgression, and sin. But he does not leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of the ancestors on their children, and on their children’s children to the third and fourth generation."
NET Bible
keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. But he by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children’s children, to the third and fourth generation."
GOD’S WORD
He continues to show his love to thousands of generations, forgiving wrongdoing, disobedience, and sin. He never lets the guilty go unpunished, punishing children and grandchildren for their parents’ sins to the third and fourth generation."
King James 2000 Bible
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
American King James Version
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the children’s children, to the third and to the fourth generation.
American Standard Version
keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty , visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Darby Bible Translation
keeping mercy unto thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but by no means clearing the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
English Revised Version
keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin: and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Webster’s Bible Translation
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, to the third and to the fourth generation.
World English Bible
keeping loving kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and disobedience and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the children’s children, on the third and on the fourth generation."
Young’s Literal Translation
keeping kindness for thousands, taking away iniquity, and transgression, and sin, and not entirely acquitting, charging iniquity of fathers on children, and on children’s children, on a third generation, and on a fourth.’
I think the majority translation backs the KJV.
Stephen168
New member
Mormonism is an invention not a restoration
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