Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses? Part 2

  • Thread starter Thread starter kimg901
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mathonihah said:
Of course God’s will can change depending on the circumstances. His eternal laws do not change but his will can. For example, he told the Jews that they could divorce their wives; but in the New Testament he tells us that that was done because of the hardness of their hearts.
Click to expand...
So divorce is not longer allowed. Then why do Mormons divorce? and remarry? According to the NT and you that is adultery.
 
mathonihah said:
Already answered. Nothing more need be added.

Those claims are false. I believe the words of Wilford Woodruff a lot better than that of the Mormon critics. Here is a quot from Official Declaration 1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

Wilford Woodruff
President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

Of course they did. Wilford Woodruff made that clear in his statements. The Manifesto was issued in response to a revelation.

If you favor CC over LDS that is up to you. I have nothing to add.
Click to expand...
So who lied, your “prophet”, or the congressional record? After all, it is in senate testimony that your “prophet” admitted to breaking the law.

Someone lied, who was it?
 
Miriam1947 said:
So divorce is not longer allowed. Then why do Mormons divorce? and remarry? According to the NT and you that is adultery.
Click to expand...
There is more to it than that. Divorce under the law of Moses was extremely cruel and unfair to the woman. There was no “legal procedure” for divorcing someone. An unkind husband could simply kick his wife out of the house empty handed, and “divorce” her by giving her a “bill of divorcement,” without her having any legal remedy for compensation of any kind. It is not like today where you go to court, and a judge decides a fair compensation the woman should receive. That was the kind of divorce that Jesus was condemning. Obviously all divorces are tragic, and are best avoided; and courts generally prefer to achieve reconciliation rather than grant a divorce. But the inevitable sometimes happens. Some marriages are simply unworkable. There is a personality clash or something else. In those situations it may be best for both sides to divorce, than to live in misery for the rest of their lives.
 
mathonihah said:
There is more to it than that. Divorce under the law of Moses was extremely cruel and unfair to the woman. There was no “legal procedure” for divorcing someone. An unkind husband could simply kick his wife out of the house empty handed, and “divorce” her by giving her a “bill of divorcement,” without her having any legal remedy for compensation of any kind. It is not like today where you go to court, and a judge decides a fair compensation the woman should receive. That was the kind of divorce that Jesus was condemning. Obviously all divorces are tragic, and are best avoided; and courts generally prefer to achieve reconciliation rather than grant a divorce. But the inevitable sometimes happens. Some marriages are simply unworkable. There is a personality clash or something else. In those situations it may be best for both sides to divorce, than to live in misery for the rest of their lives.
Click to expand...
Either marriage is “until death us do part” or it isn’t. There is no marriage in heaven and the only second marriage allowed is after the death of a spouse.
 
mathonihah said:
There is more to it than that. Divorce under the law of Moses was extremely cruel and unfair to the woman. There was no “legal procedure” for divorcing someone. An unkind husband could simply kick his wife out of the house empty handed, and “divorce” her by giving her a “bill of divorcement,” without her having any legal remedy for compensation of any kind. It is not like today where you go to court, and a judge decides a fair compensation the woman should receive. That was the kind of divorce that Jesus was condemning. Obviously all divorces are tragic, and are best avoided; and courts generally prefer to achieve reconciliation rather than grant a divorce. But the inevitable sometimes happens. Some marriages are simply unworkable. There is a personality clash or something else. In those situations it may be best for both sides to divorce, than to live in misery for the rest of their lives.
Click to expand...
I have proven you wrong re: your story of polygamy. It would help if you would explain to everyone as to why you are afraid of me and the truth
 
Miriam1947 said:
Either marriage is “until death us do part” or it isn’t.
Click to expand...
According to Mormonism it isn’t! 🙂 I don’t know how much you know about Mormons; but in Mormonism marriages are solemnized for eternity, not just for time, or “until death do you part”.
There is no marriage in heaven …
Click to expand...
Again, in Mormonism there is!
and the only second marriage allowed is after the death of a spouse.
Click to expand...
That may be true in Catholicism, but not in Mormonism.
 
TexanKnight said:
I have proven you wrong re: your story of polygamy. It would help if you would explain to everyone as to why you are afraid of me and the truth
Click to expand...
I think he’s more scared of me than you. 😛

He just doesn’t like it when you provide him with facts, like the one that showed his “prophets” lied.
 
mathonihah said:
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
Click to expand...
mathonihah said:
The Manifesto was issued in response to a revelation.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t look to me like it was issued in response to a revelation, unless that revelation was from the U.S. government. I appears to be in response to Congress, not almighty God.
 
mathonihah said:
According to Mormonism it isn’t! 🙂 I don’t know how much you know about Mormons; but in Mormonism marriages are solemnized for eternity, not just for time, or “until death do you part”.

Again, in Mormonism there is!

That may be true in Catholicism, but not in Mormonism.
Click to expand...
So Mormonism doesn’t follow the teachings of Christ?
 
SteveVH said:
It doesn’t look to me like it was issued in response to a revelation, unless that revelation was from the U.S. government. I appears to be in response to Congress, not almighty God.
Click to expand...
Well the pressure came from the government, but the revelation came from the Lord.
 
mathonihah said:
We think that we do. We think that you have misunderstood them.
Click to expand...
if we so misunderstand, why are we so able to prove you wrong at every turn? And if you are so right, why are you so afraid of those of us who flood you with facts to disprove everything you say?
 
First of all, I’d like to introduce myself - I’m Xeale. Good morning one and all.

Secondly, it amazes me how a majority of Mormons who attempt to misdirect us Catholic Christians always seem to concentrate the thrust of their arguments in relation to the OLD covenant (testament). We are the New Covenant Church.

Third, the Mormon church outlawed polygamy more than ten years ago - yeah, it’s recent. So “M,” study up on your faith.

Now for an answer to the title of the post. Please bear in mind, as a self-taught apologist, I have read about the Mormons and Jehovahs before. I can appreciate the stand Mormons make in regard to the importance of family. When I was little, our entire family sat down for dinner together and spent time in fellowship - you don’t see that in the typical family anymore. As for the Jehovahs Witnesses, they fearlessly proclaim the Kingdom out in public with a conviction rarely seen in this day and age.

As a thrust for the New Evangelization, we Catholic Christians can learn from those around us how to appreciate our own faith, how to build on it at home and share our relationship with the Lord with others. Let us keep in mind though what St Paul said: “We know in part and see in part.”
 
mathonihah said:
You are not comparing like with like. The Christian martyrs were being forced to renounce their faith altogether. Mormons were not being required to renounce their faith. **In Mormonism polygamy is not a religious requirement or obligation. **It is not salvation issue. It is a possibility. It says, you can have more than one wife if you want one. It doesn’t say, you must have more than one wife or you will be damned.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? Brigham Young would beg to differ…
“The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.”
Click to expand...
  • Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 11, p. 269
And I came across this and thought it was interesting pertaining to the discussion:
“If I had forty wives in the United States, they did not know it, and could not substantiate it, neither did I ask any lawyer, judge, or magistrate for them. I live above the law, and so do this people.”
Click to expand...
  • Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 361
 
mathonihah said:
Well the pressure came from the government, but the revelation came from the Lord.
Click to expand...
He doesn’t say that in his manifesto. He said congress made a law and he was going to abide with it. But for the sake of argument, lets say that he did receive a revelation. Was this just coincidental with the stance of congress? If not, it appears that God’s laws are subject to human laws. Because congress decided against God’s allowance of polygamy, God apparently then changed his stance to conform with the laws of the United States.

Math, any reasonable person can deduce what happened here. 😉
 
Xeale said:
Third, the Mormon church outlawed polygamy more than ten years ago - yeah, it’s recent. So “M,” study up on your faith.
Click to expand...
To be clear, the Mormon church outlawed polygamy in 1890.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top