WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

[Zundrah]

***Friend either your brand of Mormonism is unique or they have made whosale Theolgical changes of common belief:shrug:

Please share with me your faiths understanding of Jesus. And if you use the entire bible for something other to try to disprove Christianity, what is the “Book of Mormon?” And what is your churchs understanding of heaven and hell? ***

Love and prayers, and can we please play nice

She cannot play nice…

P.S. The book of mormon is a fictional story. It is their “proof” that the catholic church strayed from Christs’ teachings.

 

[why_me]

WhyMe:

I understand that you’re awfully busy in this thread considering that you are the subject of it, so maybe you missed my earlier question posed twice:

I’d like to know how you reconcile the competing claims of authority of the Catholic and LDS churches. In your opinion, who is St. Peter’s lawful successor? Thomas S. Monson or Joseph Ratzinger?

I don’t concern myself with it. I rather concern myself with what they say in their articles and statements. And I find much agreement with them both. I concern myself with real life and the good of the other. I would like a social environment where goodness is encouraged and not dispised and establishing a socio-economic system where goodness can flourish. In this I like the Catholic Worker Movement. catholicworker.org/

I don’t see it happening in a system that encourages self-centered individualism. I find the pope’s concern for social justice encouraging. And Monson’s understanding of virtue encouraging. In the end, neither will lead people astray.

 

[dianaiad]

Friend either your brand of Mormonism is unique or they have made whosale Theolgical changes of common belief:shrug:

I love it. I’m a fifth generation true believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, have taken enough college level classes in my own religion to qualify me for a degree in theology (as have most Mormons who have gone to Seminary in high school and 'Institute" classes in college) was a full time missionary; any Catholic with a similar background in his or her own faith would be considered an expert in it.

But if I tell you what our beliefs are, your response is that I have to belong to ‘unique’ brand of Mormonism, or that the church doctrine changed? It couldn’t possibly be that you were, well (whisper this suggestion) WRONG, could it?
PJM;5571128:

Please share with me your faiths understanding of Jesus.

Why? Would you believe me if I did, or would you come back and tell me that I really believe something else about Him?

And do you use the entire Catholic and or KJV, or your “New World Testament” bible

Ah, the light dawns…

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uses the King James Version of the bible. All of it. The “New World Translation” is from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They don’t like us. Our views of God and His Son and who they are are very different.

If the KJV for something other to try to disprove Christianity, what then is the “Book of Mormon?” And what is your churchs understanding of heaven and hell?

Love and prayers, and can we please play nice

***I’ll make you a deal: when I tell you what my belief system’s doctrine actually is, and it conflicts with what you think it is, you figure that I actually know what I’m talking about and learn something. In return, I won’t give you a hard time for thinking you know more about my faith than I do when you have actually confused us with an entirely different belief system.

I think we can get along if we work on those principles. As to your questions, since you obviously believe that I have no clue what I am talking about, here are a couple of links to our official website, where your questions are specifically addressed. Here’s** what we think the Book of Mormon is.

Here is the ‘gospel topics’ entry for the word ‘heaven,’ with additional links for your research pleasure, and here is the entry for ‘hell.’ also with additional links for your research pleasure.

That’s what the church teaches about these things.*

 

[dianaiad]

Diana I know we disagree on a many things and even agree with many others but I can not sufficiently impart how happy I am for you that you believe the above!

I’m glad you’re glad, Jay…it’s not something that, I think, is a huge bone of contention between the LDS and Catholic churches though. I think that we almost all agree on this.

 

[dianaiad]

She cannot play nice…

P.S. The book of mormon is a fictional story. It is their “proof” that the catholic church strayed from Christs’ teachings.

I love your posts, sweetie. They are such shining examples of unintentional irony.

 

[Zundrah]

I love your posts, sweetie. They are such shining examples of unintentional irony.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.

 

[SkinnyJay]

I’m glad you’re glad, Jay…it’s not something that, I think, is a huge bone of contention between the LDS and Catholic churches though. I think that we almost all agree on this.

No it is not a huge bone. However I do think it’s a significant one when talking about religion and faith in general. One runs into all sorts of inconsistencies when trying to pick and choose the best of two worlds. Especially when shooting from the hip.

 

[rmcmullan]

This is sort of an interesting question because–I have to wonder–how many people subscribe (or even care) to every point of doctrine their church teaches? And even people who belong to political parties seldom agree with all the candidates or the party platform. Infact, is the party platform accepted by all the politcal candidates?

Having been raised RC and a LDS convert in my 20’s, I don’t have too much problem reconciling most Mormon/RC beliefs because they agree. Do I care that much about the nature of the Trinity? A little but not much. Do I care that RC don’t believe in a pre-existence? Not all that much. But if you go back to post #1 you’ll see things I do think are important.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himsel

To me, I find the LDS theology much more convincing and complete. And that helps my faith. But I feel that in the long run, it’s not believing in the right things that’ll help me but developing a mantle of charity and good works. Uh oh, I might be doomed!

 

[PaulDupre]

But I feel that in the long run, it’s not believing in the right things that’ll help me but developing a mantle of charity and good works.

As a Catholic, I am obliged to agree with you.

Uh oh, I might be doomed!

If you subscribe to the above, I doubt it.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

And of course, all are silent about Gottle’s problem with jews being catholic and yet not giving up their attendence at the jewish temple.

FindArticles.com. 08 Aug, 2009. findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_13_45/ai_n31635337/

I haven’t looked at the thread in a while, but maybe - maybe - someone will have had a few ideas. I certainly hope so. I’m beginning to think that you may be in a very strong position, if that kind of shenanigan is allowed in the CC. Maybe it’s time I went back to Anglicanism - I can always couple it with Catholicism. What reason is there not to ? I feel at least as strongly about Anglicanism as he does about Judaism; if he doesn’t have togive up Judaism to be a Catholic - why should you, or I, give up what we value in order to be Catholic ?​

If this is an ecclesiological mess, it’s one of the Church’s own making.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I haven’t looked at the thread in a while, but maybe - maybe - someone will had a few ideas. I hope so. I’m beginning to think that you may be in a very strong position, if that kind of shenanigan is allowed in the CC. ​

You might get more ideas from a new thread in the apologetic forum.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

You might get more ideas from a new thread in the apologetic forum.

Does it have a title ? TY BTW​

 

[RebeccaJ]

Does it have a title ? TY BTW​

I meant, you could start one! I will if you don’t want to.

 

[Benadam]

I haven’t looked at the thread in a while, but maybe - maybe - someone will have had a few ideas. I certainly hope so. I’m beginning to think that you may be in a very strong position, if that kind of shenanigan is allowed in the CC. Maybe it’s time I went back to Anglicanism - I can always couple it with Catholicism. What reason is there not to ? I feel at least as strongly about Anglicanism as he does about Judaism; if he doesn’t have togive up Judaism to be a Catholic - why should you, or I, give up what we value in order to be Catholic ?​

If this is an ecclesiological mess, it’s one of the Church’s own making.

Isn’t there a difference between culture that converts to Christ and culture that diverts from Christ?

 

[Religio71]

I haven’t looked at the thread in a while, but maybe - maybe - someone will have had a few ideas. I certainly hope so. I’m beginning to think that you may be in a very strong position, if that kind of shenanigan is allowed in the CC. Maybe it’s time I went back to Anglicanism - I can always couple it with Catholicism. What reason is there not to ? I feel at least as strongly about Anglicanism as he does about Judaism; if he doesn’t have togive up Judaism to be a Catholic - why should you, or I, give up what we value in order to be Catholic ?​

If this is an ecclesiological mess, it’s one of the Church’s own making.

The Catholic Church does not allow such apostasy. Sorry but you can’t deny Christ and be Catholic. You can’t believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that Christianity apostasized, and still be a Catholic.

If you read this thread, you’ll see it’s more about “feelings” and “whatever I want to do” and less about the actual beliefs of both the Catholic and LDS Churches, since the word “dogma” is now a 4 letter word to the person in question. Who needs the actual beliefs of the religions when love and being nice to people is all that matters, even when the basis for such feelings and actions should be in Christ and the Truth that He revealed in His Church, whether we believe that to be Catholic, LDS, Orthodox, or whatever.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

If I understand what you mean.
I think it depends on what can be pointed towards Christ. There isn’t much religiously pointeable to Christ when it outwardly imitates but inwardly opposes. Contrasted with religion that is not imitating but conceiving. All identities are not equal I think.

Thanks, but, let me try this once more - I wrote:​

• That doesn’t explain why the CC appears to have one rule for Jewish converts to RCism, & an entirely different rule for Protestant converts to RCism. There seems to be no principle in the behaviour of the CC. So if the difference does rest on principle - what is the principle ?​

If Catholics cannot double as Protestants, but must leave their Protestantism behind: why are Jews allowed to continue observing Jewish religious rites, instead of being required to leave those behind ? No matter how I turn this question around, from angle to angle, I can’t make any sense of why there is this difference. What principle is the basis for the difference ? I can’t see any I’m not surprised the OP is doubling as a Mormon - it looks as though he has every justification (in practice even though not in principle) for doing so. If there can be RC Jews (in the religious sense - “Judaist” does not quite fit, & sounds pejorative anyway), why can there not be RC Mormons, or RC Anglicans, or RC Anything-else you-care-to-name ?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

why me;5550267:

Hi whyme:tiphat:

I punted a rational. I think it even answers your question to GoG.

I fear not - but thanks anyway​

 

[Religio71]

I would like to see examples of Catholics also being Jews (as in religious Jews).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The analogy between Jewish converts to Catholicism and Mormon converts to Catholicism is partial. If a Mormon converts to Catholicism, and feels guilty about drinking hot drinks and alcohol, then, by all means, don’t.

Although I hate to admit it, because I have just a touch of Mormon cultural heritage about me, I made it to AA relatively early in my drinking career. For that I am grateful. As for coffee and tea, I did not drink coffee until I was introduced to it with cream and sugar. My parents always drank it with milk. And I was introduced to tea very early, since my grandfather was raised in England. I am truly multicultural!

The problem with many people who reject Mormonism is that they tend to reject even the good things about it. I am thankful, however, that the AA community that I first participated in had almost no cult-like traits or negative aspects of Moronish cultural contamination.

So, yes one cannot deny one’s cultural heritage in the conversion process from LDS to Catholic. Although my gut reacts negatively to men in white shirts and ties at church, I recognize that if that is in their cultural heritage and they feel comfortable that way, by all means, do it.

Does that cool the discussion?

Not really, because it doesn’t explain why it is wrong for Protestant converts to Catholicism to be active Protestants afterwards. If a Jew can become a Catholic and carry on as a Jew whereas a Protestant who becomes a Catholic can’t carry on as Protestant, the disparity needs explaining. The Jew in Whyme’s link is not only a Catholic, but a Catholic priest; which magnifies the scandal greatly.​

The disparity in what is allowed to whom, is all the more serious because talk about who is a member of the Church is a matter of dogma. What we are talking about affects RCism at its core - this not something of trifling importance, but something that goes to the heart of the Church’s self-understanding. It could hardly be more serious. Which is why I’ve been asking for an answer all these times. I’m beginning to think the Church couldn’t care less who is a member of it, or why - but if the Church does not give a hoot for its own dogma, why should we average pew-fillers ? If it can’t take its own dogma seriously, why should the rest of us bother wrapping our brains around what we are told is dogma revealed by Almighty God ? The lack of seriousness shown by the Church for what it claims to find so extremely important, is very draining, very exhausting, very discouraging. One has to wonder whether the whole panoply of doctrine and dogma & authority, is any thing more than a gigantic fraud

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I would like to see examples of Catholics also being Jews (as in religious Jews).

Your wish is granted - read it and weep :​

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