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Serap
Guest
You are on the road to healing. Bless you.
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EasterJoy
Guest
You’re thinking the right way. Even if you felt you did cause the divorce–there is someone reading this who had a big hand in ruining their marriage, even if it isn’t you–there is a point where all you can do is make the just amends for what you can change and let go of what you can’t. Even bearing some of the guilt for a divorce doesn’t mean letting that guilt make you into the perpetual emotional punching bag for someone who is determined to be miserable.
It is not as if staying in a marriage out of desperation is always a choice, either. It takes two to keep a marriage together, but one spouse alone can drive one apart, if he or she is determined enough to do it. There gets to be a point where the only way there can be any sort of peace between the spouses is to let the civil divorce go through.
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Kathryn_Ann
Guest
I’m so sorry, this must be very tough for both of you. And you’re already both going to counseling, is that correct? I will keep you both in my prayers.
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tucdoc
Guest
I continue to go to counseling, she continue to refuse. My son is seeing a therapist. I don’t know how long he will need to go, but I just hope he does better next semester. His grades only came up once during my time with them this week. My daughter brought it up, how he doesn’t study enough. I just asked him not to fail any more classes since he already has to go to summer school for at least two of his classes. As my divorced friends have advised, I’m taking one day at a time. I won’t obsess over how he might do next semester, nor how summer school will go. My son is in a better place right now, and I’ve asked him repeatedly for him to just do his best. After speaking with my good friend, whose teenage son is having substance abuse pbs, I feel just keeping my son engaged in something constructive (music) is positive.
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couponfit
Guest
Remember if you give her money in addition to it’s considered a gift. Also be sure to have the name and on the loan taken into consideration in the paper work.
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couponfit
Guest
Yes, I agree, you’ll have to either make some amazing character change or find some way to insulate her from you. Like a intermediary. When I am being whipped I get a mean Uncle to take my calls.
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rainbow1
Guest
That is a good way to phrase it…“insulate her from you”…it is like having to learn to put a protective barrier around yourself to keep yourself from the harm that can come from a cruel ex-spouse. There are so many ways to do it. I remember back when I was going to “co-parenting” which was just another way for my ex to abuse me (unfortunately) I learned to insulate myself… I needed to take a friend with me who would sit in the car and pray the rosary for me and be there when I got out. That way I was comforted during the sessions. Also, as far as abusive emails, there were times I had to change my email address, and then later in the process learned just how to not get at all tangled up in what he would say…or at least to try not to. Also, there were times when he came to the house to pick up our daughter, that I would have a friend come over and do the interacting. This sounds extreme, but if an ex-spouse is truly abusive verbally (which is different from moody) then it is very important to have that insulation. I think the major thing was for me to learn to constantly hand it back over to our Lord and to know that God would bring ultimately bring goodness out of the whole thing, even if it was some kind of new patience or understanding on my part that I would be able to carry into the future.
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rainbow1
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tucdoc
Guest
In the book on codependency I am reading, there is a section on adult children of alcoholics (which my ex is). She has many of the traits listed: fear of authority figures (?me), overly frightened of anger and personal criticism, feeling like victim, hard to look at own faults, addicted to excitement, low self-esteem, reactor. Part of me wants to just ask her if she has done any readings on adult children of alcoholics, out of a sense of concern and understanding. No, I don’t want to tell her that is her problem, but it sure seems that way. It would be so much easier to mover forward if we are civil with each other. But, as of the last text, she hates me because I wouldn’t pay her attorney’s fees.
I don’t know if she will ever get help, but since I can’t control her, I just have to let her go. I am concerned about what the kids are learning from her affect and behavior, and how that will effect them in the future. Again, I can’t control that, and I am trying to focus more on the present rather than worry about the future. All this is a very different approach for me. I admit to wanting to correct behavior that I didn’t agree with. I did it with a sense of responsibility and accountability, which my ex didn’t seem to value. We are very different people, maybe that’s why the marriage failed.
I don’t know if she will ever get help, but since I can’t control her, I just have to let her go. I am concerned about what the kids are learning from her affect and behavior, and how that will effect them in the future. Again, I can’t control that, and I am trying to focus more on the present rather than worry about the future. All this is a very different approach for me. I admit to wanting to correct behavior that I didn’t agree with. I did it with a sense of responsibility and accountability, which my ex didn’t seem to value. We are very different people, maybe that’s why the marriage failed.
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Serap
Guest
Perhaps I should visit Alanon myself b/c my father is an alcoholic and it may be helpful. thanks for sharing.
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tucdoc
Guest
I started the new year resolving to make it a better year. I spent New Years with the kids, as well as the following weekend. This weekend I work, so I’m already feeling lonely without them. Also, last night, my son refused to join me at his high school for a freshman college planning night. He claimed he had too much homework, but that he also did not want to go with me. I had already encouraged him to do better this semester (he ended up with 3 Ds and an F last semester for not doing his assignments). I still am hurt by his rejection, and am worried that he won’t make significant improvements in his school work this semester.
I spoke to my ex last PM, and she insisted that his poor performance is a cry for attention and love. I really don’t understand what more I can do. I try to see him as much as I can, but am limited by the parenting agreement. He even said “you already saw us this week” because we went out to dinner earlier this week. He doesn’t want to spend additional time with me, and he didn’t ask for help with his work when I offered repeatedly last semester. I tell him I love him, and send him encouraging texts, which he says he erases. I don’t know what else to do about his anger. I will speak to his therapist. Maybe a session with the two of us would help. My ex is very hesitant about me and her meeting with the therapist, even if it is for our son’s good. That really tells me that kind of person she is.
I spoke to my ex last PM, and she insisted that his poor performance is a cry for attention and love. I really don’t understand what more I can do. I try to see him as much as I can, but am limited by the parenting agreement. He even said “you already saw us this week” because we went out to dinner earlier this week. He doesn’t want to spend additional time with me, and he didn’t ask for help with his work when I offered repeatedly last semester. I tell him I love him, and send him encouraging texts, which he says he erases. I don’t know what else to do about his anger. I will speak to his therapist. Maybe a session with the two of us would help. My ex is very hesitant about me and her meeting with the therapist, even if it is for our son’s good. That really tells me that kind of person she is.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I believe all of the things in bold are things your son is doing to hurt you intentionally. It is how he is expressing his feelings. I don’t believe he doesn’t love you, but that he is angry with you. Yes, it is childish, but then again, he is a child. I hope that you will not take it personally, even if it feels like it is meant that way. You are the easy target.
Honestly, I don’t know what good meeting with your ex and a therapist would do. In a way, I think she might be enjoying the fact that you r son is behaving the way is toward you. Better that you speak to a therapist the yourself and ask how you might get through this challenge with your son.
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rainbow1
Guest
My guess is that your son feels like a failure academically, and thus would not want to go to anything that would bring up the academic issue. But that is great that you are reaching out to him and that you have set New Year goals and have already spent alot of time with the kids. Try to think of purely fun things to do and continue to ask him to participate regardless of whether he acts rejecting at times or not. Keep sending the texts whether he erases them or not. Your son needs all that tlc. The anger will eventually work its way out, and so will the grades, so just focus on the positive things that are happening and overlook the rest the best you can. Don’t worry about your ex, it is her job to figure out whatever her personality or lack of it is all about. Remember that mantra about not being able to change things or control things when it comes to her…You have a whole life ahead of you with so much to look forward to…start planning for that in your new year also…
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Well, I told my kids when my marriage broke up that they would feel whatever they feel. Be it anger, sadness, confusion… you have to acknowledge, as you appear to, that they have a right to their feelings. However, they need to deal with them in a productive way. To think about what is in their best interests long term, and then act accordingly. It’s ok to be angry, to tell me why they’re angry, it’s wrong to be rude, disrespectful etc.
Hard for a kid to do but, you could try to explain to him that-- if you erased all his texts, avoided contact with him, didn’t respond to phone calls it would tend to drive a wedge between you. Is that what your son wants to do? Is that what your son sees as being in his own best interests? Not just now, but into the future? You will keep texting, calling, and reaching out however you can because you love your son and always will. It’s how you’re trying to reassure your son of that fact through all of this.
Unfortunately, divorces tend to force kids to grow up fast. Your son needs to learn to deal with all of this without damaging himself, or relationships he will value in the future.
Hard for a kid to do but, you could try to explain to him that-- if you erased all his texts, avoided contact with him, didn’t respond to phone calls it would tend to drive a wedge between you. Is that what your son wants to do? Is that what your son sees as being in his own best interests? Not just now, but into the future? You will keep texting, calling, and reaching out however you can because you love your son and always will. It’s how you’re trying to reassure your son of that fact through all of this.
Unfortunately, divorces tend to force kids to grow up fast. Your son needs to learn to deal with all of this without damaging himself, or relationships he will value in the future.
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Serap
Guest
When my parents divorced my brother and I both dropped out of high-school. My brother got involved in drugs and such and I got a job as a receptionist.
About 3 years later, I returned to school and finished a B. Comm degree. My brother returned to school 10 years later and became an electrician.
There’s not much you can do TucDoc. Your son is angry and he will do what he must do and he will have to face the consequences. You can let him know that you will always be there for him and he will eventualy come around.
Just be patient.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I so agree with this, Irishmom2, all of it, especially the bolded.
You can’t MAKE your son do anything.
All you can do now is BE. Be there.
It is very hard, and may get harder. But believe me, the day will come when you will say, “It was worth it.”
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EasterJoy
Guest
I think the co-dependency literature has a lot of good stuff in it about healthy relationship and learning to deal with our limitations, even for people who aren’t “addicted” to anything.
I would not lay his difficulty in school at any particular pair of feet, at any rate. Your son might be having a hard time at school as a result of your divorce without it being a “cry” for anything that anyone else could possibly supply. Assessing blame is not only counter-productive. At this point in his life, it is probably impossible. Even if you knew, what would that change?
Think about how your divorce has affected you. There’s all this conflict, the break-up of your family, and you felt powerless to stop it. Your son is in a similar boat, excepting that he is even more powerless than you are and he gets to listen to your wife’s discontent more than you do. He can’t leave, he’s stuck with it.
Grieving, disengaging, or protesting the loss of one’s family can come out in school or work as a “bury myself in my work”, where you work harder and do more, but it can also express itself in an added difficulty in getting motivated. It can express itself in a reflex that wants to be as contrary as everyone else seems to be. Whatever the case, when you’re sad or mad, it can be hard to get going. The fact that you realize that you need to get going or that your reaction is primarily hurting you instead of anyone else doesn’t always change that. It doesn’t make the sadness or the anger go away. A pressure to perform when you’re hurting can make you even more resistant to do it. Refusing to perform, after all, is something your son can achieve, and it is a way to exert his independence from what his parents want. If your divorce was altogether independent from what he wanted, exerting his own will and making you live with it may feel kind of good to him, even if he’s not doing that consciously, and really really crummy at the same time. It doesn’t feel too good to exert your will when it does nothing in the end to address the problem you are powerless to address.
It may be that his grief and life disruption are going to take some time to get through, and it is going to be difficult for him to get motivated for school in the meantime. He’s going through a kind of a death, only it’s not really over. Your family hasn’t come to equilibrium yet. You’re still figuring out the shuffling of your roles.
Whenever you talk with him about his grades, express your concern primarily for him. “If you blow a year of high school, that can be a hard hole to get out of, but it is possible. I’m concerned about your grades, but I’m primarily concerned about you.” If he tells you that he erases your PMs, you can say, “Better that you erase them than that you want them and never get them. I’m a big boy, and I had more control over this situation than you do. If you’re pissed off at me, I’m going to have to live with it, because frankly, I can’t say that I wouldn’t feel the same. I’m still your dad, though, and you deserve to have me stick around in case you ever change your mind. You’re worth it, this is the pits, I wish you never had to go through it, but you’re going to be a fine man when you get through this, that is the main thing I’m trying to let you know–not that the divorce is good for you or teaches anything, but that you’re the kind of good guy that even a divorce can’t beat in the end.”
Or, as a friend of mine used to say, let him know that you think he’s “a floater, not a sinker.”
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rainbow1
Guest
I think the co-dependency literature has a lot of good stuff in it about healthy relationship and learning to deal with our limitations, even for people who aren’t “addicted” to anything.
I would not lay his difficulty in school at any particular pair of feet, at any rate. Your son might be having a hard time at school as a result of your divorce without it being a “cry” for anything that anyone else could possibly supply. Assessing blame is not only counter-productive. At this point in his life, it is probably impossible. Even if you knew, what would that change?
Think about how your divorce has affected you. There’s all this conflict, the break-up of your family, and you felt powerless to stop it. Your son is in a similar boat, excepting that he is even more powerless than you are and he gets to listen to your wife’s discontent more than you do. He can’t leave, he’s stuck with it.
Grieving, disengaging, or protesting the loss of one’s family can come out in school or work as a “bury myself in my work”, where you work harder and do more, but it can also express itself in an added difficulty in getting motivated. It can express itself in a reflex that wants to be as contrary as everyone else seems to be. Whatever the case, when you’re sad or mad, it can be hard to get going. The fact that you realize that you need to get going or that your reaction is primarily hurting you instead of anyone else doesn’t always change that. It doesn’t make the sadness or the anger go away. A pressure to perform when you’re hurting can make you even more resistant to do it. Refusing to perform, after all, is something your son can achieve, and it is a way to exert his independence from what his parents want. If your divorce was altogether independent from what he wanted, exerting his own will and making you live with it may feel kind of good to him, even if he’s not doing that consciously, and really really crummy at the same time. It doesn’t feel too good to exert your will when it does nothing in the end to address the problem you are powerless to address.
It may be that his grief and life disruption are going to take some time to get through, and it is going to be difficult for him to get motivated for school in the meantime. He’s going through a kind of a death, only it’s not really over. Your family hasn’t come to equilibrium yet. You’re still figuring out the shuffling of your roles.
Whenever you talk with him about his grades, express your concern primarily for him. “If you blow a year of high school, that can be a hard hole to get out of, but it is possible. I’m concerned about your grades, but I’m primarily concerned about you.” If he tells you that he erases your PMs, you can say, “Better that you erase them than that you want them and never get them. I’m a big boy, and I had more control over this situation than you do. If you’re pissed off at me, I’m going to have to live with it, because frankly, I can’t say that I wouldn’t feel the same. I’m still your dad, though, and you deserve to have me stick around in case you ever change your mind. You’re worth it, this is the pits, I wish you never had to go through it, but you’re going to be a fine man when you get through this, that is the main thing I’m trying to let you know–not that the divorce is good for you or teaches anything, but that you’re the kind of good guy that even a divorce can’t beat in the end.”
Or, as a friend of mine used to say, let him know that you think he’s “a floater, not a sinker.”
I
Irishmom2
Guest
Another excellent post from EasterJoy.
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tucdoc
Guest
I’m in a bad place this AM. Yesterday I dropped off a piece of furniture my ex wanted, and was part of the agreement, and took my stairmaster. I was not allowed in the house by the kids. It turns out she wasn’t even house, as the movers got to the there early. She had phoned instructions to the kids. Then she sent me a text asking me to leave. Last night I called her to see if we can diffuse some of the anger, for the children’s sake. She refuse to let the anger go, and would complain about continuing the conversation. I admitted that communication had been a problem throughout the marriage, and that instead of letting her withdraw when she was upset, it may have been more productive if I had try to engage her.
I am so down about how my kids are being raised, with an resentful woman who refuse to communicate. I am afraid she will continue to erode at my relationship with them. The conflicts will continue as long as she is mad at me.
I am so down about how my kids are being raised, with an resentful woman who refuse to communicate. I am afraid she will continue to erode at my relationship with them. The conflicts will continue as long as she is mad at me.
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