Wife has given up

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Tell your wife if she is unhappy, that she needs to leave. Happiness is something we choose, it’s not something we chase or pursue. You’ll stay with the kids so she can have the freedom she craves. Along with that freedom she can take over responsibilty for taking care of herself. The issue is hers, not yours.

She’s the one that needs to leave because she’s going to find the kids just as inconvenient to freedom and this time she wants with her friends. She’ll resent them and be an even worse mother. Your kids will very quickly understand that her friends are a higher priority to her than them. THIS WILL BE INCREDIBLY DAMAGING TO THEM PSYCHOLOGICALLY. You leaving won’t improve her ability to be a mother, it will just change the target for her frustration.

My ex-wife left (married 21 yrs) about 8 months ago, divorce final in august. She blamed it on loss of feelings for me, but she has steadily alienated/distanced herself from our 3 children. It has been incredibly hard on them (yeah, me too, I still truly love that woman). 50% custody became every other weekend with her, to me now having them full time. All driven by her actions and decisions, and her requesting the decreased contact each time. Her prioritizing other friends and relationships over them. (I insisted that our final legal agreement reflect what we were actually doing vice what was initially drafted. What she actually did vice what she said was her intention.) I thank God every night that I can kiss them and tuck them into bed and tell them what lovable, wonderful people they are.
Mom now comes by in the mornings to take them to school, phone call at night and visiting on the weekend. I’ve continued paying her child support in accordance with our initial agreement. She offered to have cut off child support but I insisted it continue. That is because down the road, she or my kids, will not be able to claim I caused any of the distancing between them, i.e. she lacked the funds to take them shopping or treat them to an amusement park etc. Same as my allowing her to come and visit the kids in my home because she has set her own home up so they can’t go there. Again, her choices and I won’t do anything she or my kids can point to in the future, claiming I contributed or caused any of her relationship breakdown with her kids.

Best of luck. Do what’s right for your kids, try to be the example they need of willingness to forgive. Don’t just tell them you love them. Do concrete things they can see. Get in shape if you’re not and tell them it’s so you’ll live a long time with them. Give up any dangerous activities- SCUBA, Skydiving, motorcycles. Give up any habits you have which make the kids worry- drinking, smoking etc. Take them to church, keep them strong in the faith. If they are not with you, you can not control whether they stay active in the faith.
 
Tucdoc,

Remember that you and your wife need to be on the same side. Find some issue that both of you agree is a problem and see if you can work out a plan to conquer it together.
 
styrgwillidar said:
Tell your wife if she is unhappy, that she needs to leave. Happiness is something we choose, it’s not something we chase or pursue. You’ll stay with the kids so she can have the freedom she craves. Along with that freedom she can take over responsibilty for taking care of herself. The issue is hers, not yours.

She’s the one that needs to leave because she’s going to find the kids just as inconvenient to freedom and this time she wants with her friends. She’ll resent them and be an even worse mother. Your kids will very quickly understand that her friends are a higher priority to her than them. THIS WILL BE INCREDIBLY DAMAGING TO THEM PSYCHOLOGICALLY. You leaving won’t improve her ability to be a mother, it will just change the target for her frustration.

My ex-wife left (married 21 yrs) about 8 months ago, divorce final in august. She blamed it on loss of feelings for me, but she has steadily alienated/distanced herself from our 3 children. It has been incredibly hard on them (yeah, me too, I still truly love that woman). 50% custody became every other weekend with her, to me now having them full time. All driven by her actions and decisions, and her requesting the decreased contact each time. Her prioritizing other friends and relationships over them. (I insisted that our final legal agreement reflect what we were actually doing vice what was initially drafted. What she actually did vice what she said was her intention.) I thank God every night that I can kiss them and tuck them into bed and tell them what lovable, wonderful people they are.
Mom now comes by in the mornings to take them to school, phone call at night and visiting on the weekend. I’ve continued paying her child support in accordance with our initial agreement. She offered to have cut off child support but I insisted it continue. That is because down the road, she or my kids, will not be able to claim I caused any of the distancing between them, i.e. she lacked the funds to take them shopping or treat them to an amusement park etc. Same as my allowing her to come and visit the kids in my home because she has set her own home up so they can’t go there. Again, her choices and I won’t do anything she or my kids can point to in the future, claiming I contributed or caused any of her relationship breakdown with her kids.

Best of luck. Do what’s right for your kids, try to be the example they need of willingness to forgive. Don’t just tell them you love them. Do concrete things they can see. Get in shape if you’re not and tell them it’s so you’ll live a long time with them. Give up any dangerous activities- SCUBA, Skydiving, motorcycles. Give up any habits you have which make the kids worry- drinking, smoking etc. Take them to church, keep them strong in the faith. If they are not with you, you can not control whether they stay active in the faith.
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You are a remarkable person. I did the same with exhusband. He could come into my home anytime to visit the kids. They couldn’t go to his home as freely due to multiple remarriages to women with their own children. His current wife will not allow him to visit the kids in my home. He chose her over them. They are now grown up and know other women were his first choice. I still tell my kids they are the best thing that ever happened to me. :bounce:

Kissing your kids to sleep at night is the biggest blessing in the world.
 
styrgwillidar said:
She’s the one that needs to leave because she’s going to find the kids just as inconvenient to freedom and this time she wants with her friends. She’ll resent them and be an even worse mother. Your kids will very quickly understand that her friends are a higher priority to her than them. THIS WILL BE INCREDIBLY DAMAGING TO THEM PSYCHOLOGICALLY. You leaving won’t improve her ability to be a mother, it will just change the target for her frustration.
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Please don’t act like this is a fact that 100% happens in every situation, because thats simply not the case. Thanks, just needed to point that out.
I do agree that situations like this do affect people in some way, somehow, but its not *always *for the ‘worst’… just wanted to let you know that.
Other than that, I agree with your post.
 
I have been lurking on this thread for a while now. I wanted to say thank you for all the wonderful and well thought out replies. Tucdoc has been very fortunate to have you guys. My brother is going through the same thing with his wife. They are trying to work it out but she is distancing herself from the children and I am afraid I can see the outcome ahead. It is amazing the ripple effects our actions cause…truly amazing. Once again, thank you.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
Please don’t act like this is a fact that 100% happens in every situation, because thats simply not the case. Thanks, just needed to point that out.
I do agree that situations like this do affect people in some way, somehow, but its not *always *for the ‘worst’… just wanted to let you know that.
Other than that, I agree with your post.
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We do know that, but potential damage can be detected earlier and possibly prevented by having the kids see counselors early in the process as opposed to waiting for problems to emerge.
 
SonCatcher said:
We do know that, but potential damage can be detected earlier and possibly prevented by having the kids see counselors early in the process as opposed to waiting for problems to emerge.
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Oh, of course! Doing things to try to prevent possible future psychological damage would only be logical.
 
Has your wife been to a psychiatrist? I may have missed it in the thread. It skews memory of past events negatively. Hypercritical, can lead to looking for things to stimulate feelings. Depression is not always debilitating, folks can be functional but very negative- some of what you’ve written indicate this could be at least part of the problem. It is well worth having her go to be checked out, if she’ll go. Some great books which helped me deal with my ex-wife’s depression (she’s been on meds and just before the marriage started breaking down she said they didn’t feel like they were working anymore). Ended up deciding she wasn’t depressed and it was all losing feelings for me and stopped her meds.

Depression Fallout, Anne Sheffield
How You Can Survive When They’re Depressed, Anne Sheffield
Undoing Depression, What Therapy Doesn’t Teach You and Medication Can’t Give you, Richard O’Connor, PhD

Also, Anne Sheffield has a website with forums. Might be worth looking at the discussions and see if the match what you’re experiencing. www.depressionfallout.com

My observations on kids are biased, based on my personal experiences and discussions with therapists. It is natural for kids to blame themselves, and it will be worse if they believe they are being tossed aside for a new relationship. That is exactly the position my kids are in-- Dad, she chose him over us. What kind of mother does that? They can easily start to wonder what’s wrong with them that a parent (Mom or Dad) can do that. If you leave, you must understand how hard you must work to keep them confident that they are a priority to you.

I was truly blessed by God in finding excellent therapists for each of my kids. Although reluctant to go at first, my daughter went in the first time for about 5 minutes alone with the therapist and said, “That was great. She really gets it!” I asked what she meant and she said, Mom doesn’t listen she just gets mad, you listen but don’t get it, the therapist does. No matter how hard I try I can never truly understand what it is for one of my parents to leave, to choose living somewhere else with someone else over her kids.

I will be praying for you and your family.
 
qui est ce,

Thank you, we are all remarkable with God’s help. I can’t count the number of rosaries I’ve said in the past 14 months, I believe he has truly been there helping me to stay rational and guided me in many instance. You also have done remarkable things.

My ex-wife was a wonderful mother for a long time. Headed the PTA, did volunteer work at the schools, worried and fussed over the kids when sick, jumped to their defense, sacrificed to be there for them, headed youth groups, taught CCD etc. etc.

I imagine it’s like watching a drug addict tearing apart all they’ve built up in life, all the good things. She barely speaks to her Dad- her Mom won’t talk to her and most of her old friends. I feel sorry for her as I see how the kids are reacting to what she’s doing.

Tuc Doc,
My own experience may be making me too pessimistic about your situation. But if your wife won’t take steps to get back into the marriage, respect it, value it and you, than your focus should shift to your children. You need to start thinking about what is best for them and planning to make it happen; while you also work on saving your marriage. I have my doubts that a woman (or a man) treating their marriage this way is going to prioritize their relationship with their kids any better.
 
Styrgwillidar, your experience seems so similar to mine. My wife was also active in school and church activities, and all she did this year is watch baseball. She also has become distant from parents from the school. She absolutely refuses to take meds, so no luck in getting her to see a psychiatrist. I’ve think she’s depressed, and I told her so back in May. There was a comment on the thread that she was “self-medicating” with baseball, and I believe it. I also think there is an anxiety component to her condition, given the way she cries and doesn’t want me touching her anymore. As hard as it has been to not even be able to give her a hug, I am respecting that request. Just like an addict, she has to make the decision to get better.

She has yet to send my lawyer any divorce paperwork. This limbo is so frustrating. I want to move on. I know it will be difficult to keep up a close relationship with the kids. I hope that in the future they will see that I was the stable one. For now, I’m just glad I can spend time with them in our home. I continue to take life one day at a time (praying for daily bread). This is such a change for me as I like to plan months and years in advanced. I can’t do that anymore. Maybe that is also part of God’s plan.
 
The VERY VERY SAD thing is that depression is debilitating. I too have seen it destroy a marriage and beat the hell out of others. Because one person (and often it’s the wife) is depressed. And they can’t get past it. They can’t absorb that it is within their person. And they are just with it enough to blame everyone else. (not that that’s “with it”, but they are not in a coma either.

I personally went through an extremely depressive state when I was in my late 20’s. FOR ME, it turned out to do with underactive thyroid, and almost no vitamin D in my body. Just getting up and going was over the top. If I had had children or much more responsibility than a 9-5 job I could have easily been in the position of one of your wives.

The difference for me, is that I KNEW something was wrong. The hard part was getting a doctor to do more than just prescribe an anti depressant. Which I took for a while with little, improvements that would last maybe 2 months… and then nothing. I’m actually still a little bitter over this. It wreaked havoc on my body. And now I battle weight that if you knew me in my younger years, you would not believe.

It turns out that I was forced to suffer through over 15 years of this (as it really started in my teens, but topped out in my 20’s) before I FINALLY got a dr. to agree to appropriate thyroid testing (anti bodies… were attacking me at extreme levels) Addressing this started the road to recovery. There is a HUGE correlation of divorce among couples with one low thyroid, the other normal.

I could have easily lost my marriage. Fortunately, again, no kids at the time. The pressure would have been immence. (especially with twins as it stands now). I actually TOLD my husband I was moving, and that he could come if he wanted. We lived in an super rainy location that was making life worse. Fortunately, he agreed to move back to Sunny CA (that helped with the D… that I finally learned for sure, only a few years ago that I’m STILL borderline defficiant… which still happens in Sunny locations)

I think one of the reasons that I come off a bit more sympathetic to TucDocs wife (who I THINK MUST do something!!!) is because I really think she is suffering. Not just choosing to. However, she is choosing not toTRY to fix the problem. I suspect she feels hopeless. She can’t bring herself to believe that it might be her chemistry. (it really is terrible when your own body betrays you like this. If you can’t even trust your own body… Who/what can you trust?) She is LOOKING for reasons… And short of being a PERFECT husband, she’ll be able to find something in DH, and she’ll grasp that… 'Cause NONE OF US are perfect. Only, sadly, I guarantee she will find that if the divorce goes through, she still won’t find the peace she’s looking for. Because it must come from within. And she will have to fight and claw her way to it.

Anxiety is a very real thing too. I know that I don’t suffer from that to an extreme. But the anxiety attacks I’ve had… :eek::eek::eek: I was fortunate to know what those were. Every woman in my family has them. They are brutal.

Anyhow, this is not about me. But I wanted to give you an example that could be a reality on your wifes side of the fence. And I was fortunate to have a tiny window of hope/realization that this was NOT ME! I could see it. That didn’t mean I knew how to fix it. I suffered for it. But I pressed for YEARS to get my fix. And again, very fortunate that it didn’t destroy us… the potential was within grasp.

TucDoc, I feel so bad for you both. I think you are both really suffering. I would continue to encourage her to get the help she needs. A Physical, and to marriage counceling. It CAN NOT come from a screaming match… just gentle encouragement. It can not be condenscending. It can not be as if you KNOW better. Seriously, it has to be that you only want the best for her, that she owes it to herself to see if something is wrong. If she suffers depression, your daughter is an easy target for the same problem. It will be helpful for your daughter to know what to do… because mom went through it. (I can tell you DH got “all knowing” with me a few times. The man is lucky to have all his body parts:eek::eek:)

And then of course, as suggested, take care of yourself.

Many prayers and hugs… For you , your wife, and kids!!!
 
To echo faithfully, it can be tough to get to the physical bottom of depression, if there is one. I suffered mightily, and think most of it was due to a terrible deficiency in B12, and a very low level of D. My psych hit on the B12 a couple of years ago. I’m supplementing both and will start a slow, supervised withdrawal of the SSRI I’m on if I EVER get to a healthy B12 level.

If she refuses meds, perhaps you could locate a therapist specializing in CBT? And then working with someone behind the scenes to get her to make an appt. Someone she respects and trusts? It can be presented to her that it’s noticeable that she’s struggling with things in her personal life, and that CBT presents a new way of looking at things in a hope to view things more clearly. From there, I think the therapist could strongly recommend a physical (and some blood tests) as part of the process.

This approach would be advised to her based on helping her, not something because her husband is ‘blaming her for being depressed’.
 
tucdoc said:
Styrgwillidar, your experience seems so similar to mine. My wife was also active in school and church activities, and all she did this year is watch baseball. She also has become distant from parents from the school. She absolutely refuses to take meds, so no luck in getting her to see a psychiatrist. I’ve think she’s depressed, and I told her so back in May. There was a comment on the thread that she was “self-medicating” with baseball, and I believe it. I also think there is an anxiety component to her condition, given the way she cries and doesn’t want me touching her anymore. As hard as it has been to not even be able to give her a hug, I am respecting that request. Just like an addict, she has to make the decision to get better.

She has yet to send my lawyer any divorce paperwork. This limbo is so frustrating. I want to move on. I know it will be difficult to keep up a close relationship with the kids. I hope that in the future they will see that I was the stable one. For now, I’m just glad I can spend time with them in our home. I continue to take life one day at a time (praying for daily bread). This is such a change for me as I like to plan months and years in advanced. I can’t do that anymore. Maybe that is also part of God’s plan.
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Look down the tracks and cut back on your workload as if you just got a cancer diagnosis in your family. You will need the most flexible schedule you can get. When you look back from your deathbed, the financial hit will have been worth it. Make all your decisions from the perspective, and hang in there. I can hear how tired you are…your perseverance is the right thing! Keep close to prayer and the sacraments, for perseverance of the kind that you have in front of you is nearly impossible without them.

One day at a time, you have that right. Keep it up. Keep it up. This too shall pass. Be that faithful servant, and do not doubt that choice.
 
The part that still is hurtful is being unable to hug her or kiss her. I’ve told her this isn’t normal in a marriage. I’m not looking for sex, but I’ve admitted that I feel sex is important in a marriage, which makes her cringe. I’ve already apologized for the few times when I was insistent and she just went along with it. Now she resents me for those times and says that is the reason she feels uncomfortable with me touching her. I’ve asked that we both go for counseling to deal with this issue, but she again refuses. I have to be honest with her, that I feel being affectionate needs to be part of a marriage, and I can’t continue in this marriage if she refuses to address the deep-seated discomfort she feels with me touching her.

She did finally see a doctor because she has been losing hair, probably from stress. Her thyroid level was O.K., but she is anemic, maybe from ulcers due to stress. She will be seeing her gyn doc to have estrogen levels checked. This is going so slowly, as I asked her to do this months ago.

She is supposed to see her lawyer again. It sound like he is drafting a proposal for divorce. I’m not going to fight it. If she wants out, and prefers this over dealing with the issues I noted above, then I will agree to the divorce. I’ve told her I want to be with somebody who wants to be with me, and she doesn’t seem to be that person anymore.
 
tucdoc said:
The part that still is hurtful is being unable to hug her or kiss her. I’ve told her this isn’t normal in a marriage. I’m not looking for sex, but I’ve admitted that I feel sex is important in a marriage, which makes her cringe. I’ve already apologized for the few times when I was insistent and she just went along with it. Now she resents me for those times and says that is the reason she feels uncomfortable with me touching her. I’ve asked that we both go for counseling to deal with this issue, but she again refuses. I have to be honest with her, that I feel being affectionate needs to be part of a marriage, and I can’t continue in this marriage if she refuses to address the deep-seated discomfort she feels with me touching her.

She did finally see a doctor because she has been losing hair, probably from stress. Her thyroid level was O.K., but she is anemic, maybe from ulcers due to stress. She will be seeing her gyn doc to have estrogen levels checked. This is going so slowly, as I asked her to do this months ago.

She is supposed to see her lawyer again. It sound like he is drafting a proposal for divorce. I’m not going to fight it. If she wants out, and prefers this over dealing with the issues I noted above, then I will agree to the divorce. I’ve told her I want to be with somebody who wants to be with me, and she doesn’t seem to be that person anymore.
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What was her thyroid level?
 
She again told me this AM how much it hurt her that I wasn’t with her when her mother died in LA 6 years ago. She cannot forgive me for letting her down. I’ve explained why I couldn’t be there the whole time she was dying (I had to work) and I’ve apologized repeatedly. She refuses to forgive me. How can she be like this? I feel she uses this as a starting point in saying how I don’t care about her, because I let her down on that occasion, and then she remembers others. She lives in the past, and refuses to focus on a future that would include me. I get sick in my stomach thinking that my marriage is over because she is unforgiving.
It pains me so.
 
SonCatcher said:
“O.K.” is all we need to know on this forum. Further detail doesn’t belong on this board.
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Thanks for the explanation… :rolleyes:

Tuc, I know you’re a doc. So, I’ll just say… the reason I ask about OK… Is because it sounds like it might not be optimal… And most docs aren’t on board with the range that the new range. 3.0 being the top and needing treatment. And MOST doctors won’t treat it… and well, if my marriage was in the tank because I was feeling really low, AND my thyroid could be a part of that… Then I’d be pretty dang ticked that I could be lifted up with an appropriate level, thus bringing me to the world of normal… and lost my marriage… do to this MAJOR contributing factor…

I also had to fight with doctors for an increase in thyroid meds to KEEP my pregnancy… it’s not that straight forward… Please forgive my lack of trust in the medical docs. They are PRACTICING… not PEFECTING…

So, NO, I don’t personally need to know what your wifes levels are. I asked because it’s important given your situation that she seems depressed. you make sure they are OPITOMAL with a capital O…

Again, from someone who suffered from this for over 15 years and it almost took my marriage! How sad if you end up divorced because your wife is OK… IT’S THAT BIG! But if she’s perfectly normal… then GREAT!!! 😃 So, don’t take my word for it… research this… is ALL that I’m suggesting…
 
tucdoc said:
She again told me this AM how much it hurt her that I wasn’t with her when her mother died in LA 6 years ago. She cannot forgive me for letting her down. I’ve explained why I couldn’t be there the whole time she was dying (I had to work) and I’ve apologized repeatedly. She refuses to forgive me. How can she be like this? I feel she uses this as a starting point in saying how I don’t care about her, because I let her down on that occasion, and then she remembers others. She lives in the past, and refuses to focus on a future that would include me. I get sick in my stomach thinking that my marriage is over because she is unforgiving.
It pains me so.
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She’s depressed. She had a cr*p childhood according to you. She’s lost family memebers. She feels unsupported. She may or may not have medical issues contributing to this hormones etc… And whether or not on purpose or with any malice at all… marriage turned out not all it’s cracked up to be…

She doesn’t want to get help. You can’t make her…
 
So, our marriage ends because she is depressed and refuses to get help. And there is nothing I can say or do to prevent it from happening. My life sucks.
 
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