Wife won't let husband be spritual leader of house?

[Xantippe]

I’ve been callous, contentious, and uncharitable. In all of my conversations regarding the faith I’ve frequently made a mess and nothing more. I fought so hard on this one because I was blessed with the free time to do so, and with the passion to try. My hope is that I’ve done somewhat more than just make a mess, but even for a quarter of one of God’s pages I’d do it again, even when I feel unworthy to address you women and even when I’m clearly inadequate to the task.

You know I’m not advocating you dispense with your moral responsibilities. Never dispense with your moral obligations, this doesn’t have to mean you have to “obey” your Husband any more than you already do. It’s entirely possible that there were plenty of times you should have corrected your Husband when you didn’t. The method you employ in your correction though, shouldn’t be an authoritative correction, it should be a loving one. I would take a guess that this is what you already do.

What I’m trying to get at is the core driver of how we operate in a family. You have an idea of what your family should look like on the surface, your a strong wife, independent, caring, intelligent, autonomous. All of these things are exceptional qualities to have and I’m lucky my wife has them as well.

But I want to take something that we rarely think about in any other way than subliminally and bring it to the surface, only for a little while, to show that while we are made equally, we are not uniform. I want to chide our culture. Many have forgotten the roles we are supposed to play in the family, as a culture, and I think that is something worth fighting for.

I don’t always get this right (I do lose my temper fairly regularly). I think there’s almost always room for a little bit more respect and love, from either side. I think almost everybody wants and needs both love and respect. Heck, I think even my 2-year-old wants both love and respect.

I think the wife’s need for respect is often underappreciated, maybe even by the wife herself. A couple of months ago, I suddenly realized that I felt really disrespected when my husband would ask me, “Do you really need to go to the grocery store?” or “Do you really need a haircut?” (A family of five always needs something from the store and I’d usually have an inch of bangs in my eyes when he asked me that question.) We had what we discovered was a difference in values. My husband likes to fine tune and perfect things and get them exactly right and make sure that no unnecessary effort or money is expended (and is willing to spend almost unlimited time and energy on this). Meanwhile, on my side, being repeatedly being asked those particular questions was leaving me feeling disrespected and that I was being treated like a child or a mental deficient. It was also (paradoxically) leading to unnecessary expenditures of energy on both our parts, as we had “discussions” where I needed to demonstrate that yes, we did need a grocery trip, or yes, I did have hair in my eyes obscuring my vision, and a $12 haircut was in order. We’d been married 16 years before I realized why that particular type of question sent me into orbit–it wasn’t the grocery or the haircut that was the problem, it was what I felt (but didn’t consciously understand) as a lack of confidence from my husband in my judgment and competence in daily life. (And the funny thing is, while this story might make my husband sound like a bit of an ogre, he’s actually very gentle and mild-mannered. It’s just that he didn’t realize that his micromanagement was making me feel that he was being an ogre.)

 

[Xantippe]

The issue of wifely submission has a lot of intellectual and emotional baggage that accompanies it.

I have read a lot of Protestant sources who run away with this concept and declare that women, single and married are to be under the authority of men at all times. Women are not supposed to be in any position of authority (no policewomen, politicians, judges, teachers), because the natural order is man first and then following the men, women and children. Women are to remain as perpetual minors and not adults in their own right.

This is why whenever the issue of wifely submission is brought up, an image of a wife telling her husband “You can think for me” comes to mind.

Now to the poster who I am quoting above, I certainly am not attributing the view I have just described above to you. However the issue of wifely submission can act as a lightning rod for people who have been mistreated due to a faulty understanding of this doctrine. Passions tend to run a little bit high.

Yes. There is so much abuse associated with a “strong” view of wifely submission that an excessive fondness for the topic is often seen (and fairly so) as a red flag.

 

[EasterJoy]

I sensed passions would run hot before I even started posting on the forum, and I think its a good sign that they did! Means us Catholics have strong women, and I’m proud of the women here who’ve gotten angry enough over my commentary to engage in the conversation with me, as I’ve learned a few things as well from our dialog.

For example, I’m not as logical as I thought I was. Thanks for leaving Spock out of this Xantippe, LOL!

I guess I mean it this way: I look to my father as the epitome of a Christian leader. There was not any question who was the authority in our house, but I would say the number one way it was expressed was in his defense of my mom’s sense of things. The number one offense in his eyes was not minding our mom. Neither did she shove and push to have her own way, as some women did. You would think that both had read Ephesians 5 only to find out what his or her own marching orders were, caring nothing or feeling no entitlement concerning what their spouse “owed” them in terms of respect. I am sure they had their differences, but they worked them out privately, and by all appearances they worked them out not until one of them “won” to get his or her way, but until they were truly of one mind. That is how the best pastors and bishops work together, and how the best faculty-principal relations work. When all is going well, that is how the Pope works with his College of Cardinals, too. They start from the headship of Christ and the truths that bind, and they depend on each other to make the decisions that best bring them and those under their authority towards that end. One leads, but all with authority are heard, and the ideal end is that all are of one mind in Christ when all is said and done, as described so well in Phillipians.

 

[Bannan]

Bannan (and whoever else wants to chime in)

Can you share specifically how you being head of your wife/household played out in the last week? Or in general?

Hmm, this week… Well there was the Santa clause discussion again

My wife feels that in order for Christmas to be magical, our children should think that St. Nicholas came down from heaven and dropped some presents off at our tree. I’m staunchly against mis-leading our children into believing that Christmas is about santa at all, and especially against getting them to believe that a saint in heaven has visited our hose to drop off some presents. This most recent discussion occurred one or two days after an evening of nightly prayers wherein Lucas, our eldest son who is three, stated that Jesus wasn’t real.

Now neither of us as parents are too concerned about our son saying that Jesus wasn’t real, he’s just a child and doesn’t quite understand yet well enough to even know what “real” is. But it did set us on edge, and after failing to convince him we just changed the subject.

When Emily started talking about santa again to the kids two days later, I sternly looked at her, and in a condescending tone, told her that I was going along with this santa thing.

She knew very well that if she continued, I would end up just doing what she wanted anyway. I love her too much to try and force my way, and she knows I don’t believe that our kids faith in santa will damage them eternally.

She said something along the lines of Christmas needing to be magical.

I knew very well that what she wanted was a Christmas atmosphere that sparked moments to be remembered and cherished by us parents well after our children had moved out of the house. Since both she and I grew up in santa believeing households, I didn’t have full confidence I could recreate that atmosphere from scratch after giving santa the boot.

I said something to the effect that magic was a pagan invention, and surely we could make things special while focusing on God instead of santa. (Still condescending, and also a bit unsure of myself.)

She knew that we did need to focus more on Christ during Christmas, but understanding we were both unfamiliar with how to go about getting that atmosphere right, she still persisted.

“It needs to be special! You don’t understand!”, she said.

She had a valid point, I fail utterly in making moments magical for our children in all instances other than playtime. I rarely do much for birthdays, the only ones I even remember are my wife’s and my children’s. I hate being forced to celebrate my own birthday, which has now become almost a week-long undertaking. I finally cracked a little because if I have to decide between teaching my children the heart of God vs the head, I feel that the heart is more important than the knowledge in the long run.

Fine! But I’m not going to go along with it. Santa sits on a throne of lies, and smells like beef and cheese. (If you’ve seen the movie elf, you’ll get the reference.)

Emily knew that if I really put my foot down on this, she would try to do what I wanted out of respect for me. I knew, unfortunately from experience, that if I pushed her to do something she truly disagreed with we would not only fail, but it would cause much more harm than good. On the whole, the santa thing wasn’t a huge concern, but we had this conversation in the context of our epic dedication to each-other and as parents. Any long-married couple understands how little conversations can turn into big disagreements, and has a system in place of coming to an agreement without running the risk of escalating tensions. This time ours worked flawlessly.

On the whole, I regret my condescending tone, but it’s a fond memory.

 

[EasterJoy]

…I want to chide our culture. Many have forgotten the roles we are supposed to play in the family, as a culture, and I think that is something worth fighting for.

Let us get back to this early statement: How does a husband deal with a wife who has a very domineering personality and will not allow her husband to be the spiritual leader, even if it means teaching morals to their kids.

The question could be fairly asked by either a husband or a wife, because of course both the husband and the wife have a moral authority in their home when it comes to passing on the faith in their words and their actions. As I am fond of putting it, even King David had his Prophet Nathan. Everyone has to have someone with the office of calling them out. Everyone needs to be supported at their level of authority, not just by those below them, but also by those above them. When the Apostles were commanded to lead by being the servants of all, it was indeed so that they might be the Servants of the Servants of God. All are to have the mind of Christ, thinking others more important than themselves. If it is going to happen, it has to start with leadership, but the leaders must do more than simply serve. They most lead all to an attitude of service and mutual submission that comes out of reverence for Christ. They cannot simply be doormats to those they lead or mutely accept tyrannical behavior out of those who lead them, and think they have been faithful to their duty. There may get to be the point where they realize that “calling out” is only sowing strife, because their message is being so thoroughly rejected, but their duty to call out is there.

 

[LongingSoul]

I guess I mean it this way: I look to my father as the epitome of a Christian leader. There was not any question who was the authority in our house, but I would say the number one way it was expressed was in his defense of my mom’s sense of things. The number one offense in his eyes was not minding our mom. Neither did she shove and push to have her own way, as some women did. You would think that both had read Ephesians 5 only to find out what his or her own marching orders were, caring nothing or feeling no entitlement concerning what their spouse “owed” them in terms of respect.

This is similar to why I defend Ephesians 5 as a timeless model of family also. My father was and is always so respectful of my Mother as a woman and mother of his children. Mum and most of the women in my family have been strong and outspoken but at the same time respectful of the headship of the husbands. It’s one of those things hard to quantify with specifics, but can be seen in the big picture. Many modern wives are disrespectful, demanding and feel entitled under the banner of ‘womens rights’ and sadly they are just cutting off their noses to spite their face.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is similar to why I defend Ephesians 5 as a timeless model of family also. My father was and is always so respectful of my Mother as a woman and mother of his children. Mum and most of the women in my family have been strong and outspoken but at the same time respectful of the headship of the husbands. It’s one of those things hard to quantify with specifics, but can be seen in the big picture. Many modern wives are disrespectful, demanding and feel entitled under the banner of ‘womens rights’ and sadly they are just cutting off their noses to spite their face.

I think one of the roots of today’s divorce culture is this attitude: Respect? You first!! There is not the idea that “I hold up my end, even when you fail to hold up your end, because that is what fidelity means.”

 

[Bannan]

I agree with everything you said EasterJoy! I can see by what your saying you would agree man and woman are made differently, and thus have different roles to play in the family. You recognize the hierarchy of authority and you also recognize authority as a service or responsibility, not something that makes one lesser or greater.

You are still avoiding talking about a mans authority over his home though, and that is where our differences lie. I think our differences are something to be celebrated, especially when the culture is suppressing the truth.

 

[Xantippe]

Many modern wives are disrespectful, demanding and feel entitled under the banner of ‘womens rights’ and sadly they are just cutting off their noses to spite their face.

I wonder how new being disrespectful, demanding and entitled is?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Fisherman_and_the_Fish

“In Pushkin’s poem, an old man and woman have been living poorly for many years. They have a small hut, and every day the man goes out to fish. One day, he throws in his net and pulls out seaweed two times in succession, but on the third time he pulls out a golden fish. The fish pleads for its life, promising any wish in return. However, the old man is scared by the fact that a fish can speak; he says he does not want anything, and lets the fish go. When he returns and tells his wife about the golden fish, she gets angry and tells her husband to go ask the fish for a new trough, as theirs is broken, and the fish happily grants this small request. The next day, the wife asks for a new house, and the fish grants this also. Then, in succession, the wife asks for a palace, to become a noble lady, to become the ruler of her province, to become the tsarina, and finally to become the Ruler of the Sea and to subjugate the golden fish completely to her boundless will. As the man goes to ask for each item, the sea becomes more and more stormy, until the last request, where the man can hardly hear himself think. When he asks that his wife be made the Ruler of the Sea, the fish cures her greed by putting her back in the old hut and giving back the broken trough.”

That’s a short retelling of an early 19th century verse version of a Russian fairy tale that also exists in a version by the Brothers Grimm.

 

[Xantippe]

I agree with everything you said EasterJoy! I can see by what your saying you would agree man and woman are made differently, and thus have different roles to play in the family. You recognize the hierarchy of authority and you also recognize authority as a service or responsibility, not something that makes one lesser or greater.

You are still avoiding talking about a mans authority over his home though, and that is where our differences lie. I think our differences are something to be celebrated, especially when the culture is suppressing the truth.

Here’s an example of marital difference of opinion from another thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=929286

A family with children agreed to house a guy (not clear what the relationship is, but apparently close) for a week. It’s four months later and he’s still there, but supposed to leave in two months. The dad says February is really soon so they shouldn’t do anything yet. The mom, kids and dog hate the guy, the mom is going nuts having him in the house, and the guy has seriously mistreated the dog.

 

[Bannan]

Xantippe, is this supposed to be an example of male leadership gone wrong?

First, while from what I’ve read I would wager your probably right - we don’t have the whole story.

Support her, absolutely. Cast judgement on their unwelcome guest? I don’t know if I would go that far without hearing from all of the involved first.

Second, husbands stand the risk of going awry with their “perceived notion” of authority all the time. This doesn’t appear to change the dynamics of Gods design. The exercise of authority should always be coupled with the exercise of love. The man should always place the needs and wants of the woman before himself. Always.

We the jury do not have enough substantial evidence to convict their unwelcome guest of wrongdoing, as she didn’t see him actually mistreat the dog. Could have been an accident. We also don’t have enough to convict the dad of misplaced influence in his home.

Hockeygurl is unhappy with the husbands decision to house the man. If I were forced to make a judgement call on the situation, I’d let the wife have her way, immediately. This doesn’t mean it was misappropriated authority, we don’t have the whole story. Even if we did, and even if it seemed pretty cut and dry, I still wouldn’t cast judgement because that isn’t our place to do so.

 

[gracepoole]

Hmm, this week… Well there was the Santa clause discussion again

Have you read Around the World with the Trapp Family? If not, I think you’d appreciate it. It’s available for free on EWTN’s web site: ewtn.com/library/FAMILY/TRAPP.TXT

Here’s the part that you made me think of:

It must be in order that the grown-ups may devote themselves with a quiet mind, unhindered by any commotion, to these great mysteries of the Holy Night, that in most Catholic countries the giving of gifts has been advanced to Christmas Eve. And so Christmas Eve is the day for our children. When the little ones get up in the morning, they find the door of the living room closed, and no one is allowed to go in, much less to peek through the keyhole; because the Christ Child will come and bring the Christmas tree and all the gifts. Only mother and father may assist Him.

Christmas Eve is Confession day. Once more we listen to the voice of St. John the Baptist, who admonishes us to prepare the way of the Lord and to do penance. When the Holy Child is entrusted into our hearts at midnight in our Christmas Communion, He shall find the place clean and swept and warm with love.

There is a certain hush all through the house. People are tip-toeing and whispering; at the same time there is an atmosphere of extreme activity. Mother and father spend the day behind the closed doors, “helping the Christ Child.” In our house the large Christmas tree, twelve feet high, always a beautiful, thick balsam fir, requires a lot of time to be decorated “the old way.” During the preceding nights, the older children have wrapped up candies in tinfoil or in tissue paper with fringed edges and have then tied red thread to candies as well as to hundreds of cookies. They are hung on the tree first. On the lower branches we hang also small apples and tangerines. Then come Christmas-tree decorations from our home studios–angels and stars worked in silver or brass, which will glitter later in the light of the candles. Yes, candles–because there will be six dozen small candleholders with real candles fastened to the branches. (On either side of the tree there will be a camouflaged bucket with water and a mop with a long handle “just in case.” So far we
have never needed it.) Next, dozens of packages of tinsel are emptied on twigs and branches; and the last touch is silver chains spinning in spider-web fashion, criss-crossed from branch to branch. The final effect is like a fairy tale.

Every so often the mother is interrupted by a discreet knock at the closed door and as she comes to open she can just hear steps running away. Everything and anything is a big secret today. As she opens the door just a little, she sees either a laundry basket or a cardboard box filled with many packages, each one with its name tag. So every one of
the children comes with his gifts, for every one has prepared something for everybody else.

In a large household such as ours–when we are without guests we are eighteen–that means a great deal of arranging and rearranging until finally everything seems to be in its place. The last thing is to put the Christmas crib right next to the tree–the crib in the cold, dark cave where Mary and Joseph have arrived last night after evening prayers.

When, finally, everything in the “Christmas Room” (as the living room is called these days) is ready, the rest of the afternoon is devoted to tidying up the house. Not only the workshops and rooms, but also every drawer and closet is put in order. Then we all dress in our feast-day best. When it gets dusky outside, we meet in the chapel. (Before we had
our chapel, we used to meet in a big bedroom upstairs.) Besides the vigil light, there is only the little flame of the Advent candle burning. We say the rosary, and afterwards we sing every one of our Advent hymns and at the end a song to the Blessed Mother. When we are in the middle of it, one can hear clearly the ringing of a little silver bell. A suppressed sigh can be heard coming from the little ones. This is their hour, because the bell announces that the Christ Child has come. Now we all go downstairs, and the double doors of the living room are wide open. A big Christmas tree stands there all ablaze in the light of many candles. Tables covered with white cloths are heaped with beautifully wrapped packages–gifts put there by love. First the youngest in the family steps forward and recites the Nativity story according to St. Luke. Then we sing for the first time “Silent Night”–three verses in German and in English. (For the first time at home, that is. We have sung it many times in our Christmas programs during the last weeks, always anticipating this moment when it would be sung at home.) And then everyone wishes everyone else, not a “Merry,” but a “Blessed Christmas” “Gesegnete Weihnachten.” After this the mother leads everybody to his or her Place and, for the next hour, the room is filled with happy exclamations.

This same tradition is also described in an article by the editor of The Remnant, Michael Matt, in his article “An Advent Reflection: Waiting for the Christ Child.”

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree with everything you said EasterJoy! I can see by what your saying you would agree man and woman are made differently, and thus have different roles to play in the family. You recognize the hierarchy of authority and you also recognize authority as a service or responsibility, not something that makes one lesser or greater.

You are still avoiding talking about a mans authority over his home though, and that is where our differences lie. I think our differences are something to be celebrated, especially when the culture is suppressing the truth.

Oh, yes. I have five brothers. I went to a little school and only had boys in my class, whereas the class behind me was one boy and all girls. Oh, yes, of course men and women are different. I have known homosexual men, too, and even homosexual men are guys. A different sort of guy than a heterosexual man, but not a different creature altogether, and certainly not a woman. Gert Boyle, the head of Columbia Sportswear? “One Tough Mother”? Tough as nails, the head of her ship, and not a guy. A convent and a monastery? Very different. An all-girls school and an all-boys school and a co-ed school? Three very different animals, without question.

The funny thing is that while my attitude is that my husband has the authority in our house, he does not think that way, nor does he make any point of talking that way. My dad didn’t, either. (Well, he always drives, but that is fine with me, because I’d rather be free to talk than to have him over there white-knuckled because he feels I’m doing far more talking than driving, LOL.) If anything, I’d say their authority came from the way they just got in there and DID IT. The idea that they’d complain that their wives wouldn’t “let” them be the authority? Unthinkable. “You aren’t the leader in your own home because your wife is ‘too domineering’? Are you kidding me?” I can hear either one of them saying that. It would be as if they were being asked to referee 12-year-olds. Their advice? Grow Up, Both of You.

In a Christian home, peace ought to reign, and peace comes from being of one mind and submitting to the truth with one heart. There is mutual submission, out of reverence for Christ. There is fidelity that does not wait for applause. If you have that situation, you’re not going to have an androgynous situation.

 

[LongingSoul]

The funny thing is that while my attitude is that my husband has the authority in our house, he does not think that way, nor does he make any point of talking that way.

That’s the crux of it in my opinion. I likewise never heard my mother say “You need to cherish and love me!” It was beautiful because Dad gave her that gift freely. Headship is beautiful because a wife gives it freely to her husband. All aspects of true love are like that. It exists in giving not in what is my entitlement in marriage.

 

[Xantippe]

Xantippe, is this supposed to be an example of male leadership gone wrong?

First, while from what I’ve read I would wager your probably right - we don’t have the whole story.

Support her, absolutely. Cast judgement on their unwelcome guest? I don’t know if I would go that far without hearing from all of the involved first.

Second, husbands stand the risk of going awry with their “perceived notion” of authority all the time. This doesn’t appear to change the dynamics of Gods design. The exercise of authority should always be coupled with the exercise of love. The man should always place the needs and wants of the woman before himself. Always.

We the jury do not have enough substantial evidence to convict their unwelcome guest of wrongdoing, as she didn’t see him actually mistreat the dog. Could have been an accident. We also don’t have enough to convict the dad of misplaced influence in his home.

Hockeygurl is unhappy with the husbands decision to house the man. If I were forced to make a judgement call on the situation, I’d let the wife have her way, immediately. This doesn’t mean it was misappropriated authority, we don’t have the whole story. Even if we did, and even if it seemed pretty cut and dry, I still wouldn’t cast judgement because that isn’t our place to do so.

I think I would deem this a failure in authority on the husband’s part, because from her posts, it sounds like her husband is more scared of what other people will think of them booting out the house guest than concerned with the burden that the house guest is creating for his wife and the rest of the household.

Most people would be thrilled to see even Mother Teresa go after 4 months, if the initial visit was supposed to be for a week.

 

[Bannan]

Have you read Around the World with the Trapp Family?

I haven’t, thank you for this wonderful resource. I’ll be sharing this with my wife soon.

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s an example of marital difference of opinion from another thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=929286

A family with children agreed to house a guy (not clear what the relationship is, but apparently close) for a week. It’s four months later and he’s still there, but supposed to leave in two months. The dad says February is really soon so they shouldn’t do anything yet. The mom, kids and dog hate the guy, the mom is going nuts having him in the house, and the guy has seriously mistreated the dog.

Would it matter if it were the wife’s brother? We have a parent and spouse who is not uniting with his or her family to insist someone hold to their agreement. It could be a child who has reached majority, it wouldn’t matter. The couple has a duty to honor their agreements to each other. If either obtained consent from the household and then went back on their promise over the objections of the household, that is a betrayal of trust.

If an abbot had a council with the brothers at a monastery, the agreement of the group was to house some certain guest for a week, and the guest not only grossly over-stays but is abusive and disruptive, and the abbot decides unilaterally to keep him on, the abbot has betrayed a trust. If he had unilaterally decided to welcome a guest, saw him disrupting the whole place, and yet kept him on, he would have failed to oversee the abbey faithfully, but to gain consent and then violate the terms of the consent is even worse. The situation in a family is not different than that.

 

[Bannan]

The funny thing is that while my attitude is that my husband has the authority in our house, he does not think that way, nor does he make any point of talking that way.

I get the impression you mean to say that you feel I myself “think that way”, and that it’s a bad thing. I get the impression you still avoid talking about the mans authority because it doesn’t sit well with you. Your defiant against your own invented notion of authority.

I don’t think the way that you think I do, of that much I’m certain. I don’t have you coined into a intellectual corner either, I know. Your reasons for denying or downplaying the husbands authority in the family are diverse and I won’t pretend to know them fully. But you do downplay the importance of your husbands authority.

You use examples of strength or toughness and attribute that to the head of the household in the context of a women’s monastery, or women leaders in education. These are worldly perspectives, this is not how God sees. What do strength or toughness mean before God?

When God told Eve to submit to Adam, he was not saying her obedience should be equal only to Adam’s love for her. When God told Adam to love Eve, he was not saying only as much as she is obedient. If Adam or Eve were selfish, hypocritical, lazy, none of that was even spoken of. Gods commandment had no caveat, no means by which either party could plead innocent before God while ignoring this rule. Paul’s re-iteration likewise has no escape clause.

You say that your husband doesn’t think “this way”. The way you have conveyed to me is that your husband doesn’t abuse his authority, doesn’t dominate you, doesn’t even think about it. You yourself may not even be aware that God gave him authority over you. You yourself may not even be aware of your metaphorical forbidden fruit still there, in your metaphorical Garden, untouched by his trustworthy hands. In fact, he’s so careful with you, you don’t even realize your forbidden fruit is there in the garden at all, you’ve forgotten about it. Even if at the start of your marriage you knew of his authority, you’ve since forgotten. He may not even know he has authority in the first place, our culture could have easily robbed him of that. This is a beautiful thing, if what you say is true. But it is a beautiful ignorance.

It’s almost as beautiful as knowing the fruit exists, and still not touching it for love of one another. There is greater trust when there is more to lose.

I would never advocate that the man demand obedience anymore than I would mock a woman for demanding love. When you make those comments it seems to me that you are insinuating that I’m a whinging, woefully ineffective spiritual leader and I’m complaining about you women for lack of obedience.

The truth of the matter is that I’m trying to show you something more beautiful exists than what our culture has to offer. There is a greater love you can choose to have, and you just don’t realize it because your heart is unwilling to let the truth sink in for all the wrong reasons. Your perceptions of what authority even is are steeped in a worldly perspective. Authority exists, because God exists. There is no true authority except from God. Accepting the responsibility to proxy authority is no more or less important than accepting authority’s rule. We are no greater or lesser than God made us. The burden of authority, large or small, does not make us more or less in Gods eyes. What does make us greater in Gods eyes is our willingness to accept God, in big ways and in small ways.

 

[eViLpOpTaRt]

Why fight over being the spiritual leader of the house? It seems that this is one more way of playing out a power struggle.

 

[Bannan]

If he had unilaterally decided to welcome a guest, saw him disrupting the whole place, and yet kept him on, he would have failed to oversee the abbey faithfully, but to gain consent and then violate the terms of the consent is even worse. The situation in a family is not different than that.

Your right, he’s betrayed a trust and universally so, if what the woman said was true. But that doesn’t mean the very next action always taken should be to remove the unwelcome guest.

There are dynamics at play we don’t understand in their situation, and we shouldn’t cast judgment here, especially.