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MaryT777
Guest
I wonder if she did that to make a point that micro-managing was not his job ??
Just a thought.
Mary.
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Just a thought.
Mary.
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petitfleur
Guest
I don’t know of any strong Christian family where this is actually an issue. If this is something a man puts lots of thought into arguing this point I am going to give them a huge side eye.
When this comes up why is it always about what the woman is supposed to do, and never how a man is supposed to behave? It always comes down to being the woman’s fault. If a man looks at a woman lustfully its her fault for being immodest. People don’t like to talk about self control for a man. A woman must submit, but nobody had lengthy discussions about how a man is supposed to behave for a woman to respect him enough to want to submit.
This topic is offensive because in many parts of the world women are still treated like property. I understand domestic violence goes both ways but it still is an enormous problem. Just under 900 children died from abuse in the United States this year. A majority of it happened at the hands of fathers. I still see threads here where an abused woman finally has the courage to tell someone what is going on in their home, testing the waters on what to do, and people are still telling women to stay in abusive relationships and work it out. I hope people realize that most abused people stay in a marriage and never leave, and the divorce rate is high because people are not considering the spiritual aspect of their union, not because abused women leave without trying to make it work.
If this is really an important topic to you I have to question why. There are so many important things in the Bible and to focus on this sais a lot about a person.
When this comes up why is it always about what the woman is supposed to do, and never how a man is supposed to behave? It always comes down to being the woman’s fault. If a man looks at a woman lustfully its her fault for being immodest. People don’t like to talk about self control for a man. A woman must submit, but nobody had lengthy discussions about how a man is supposed to behave for a woman to respect him enough to want to submit.
This topic is offensive because in many parts of the world women are still treated like property. I understand domestic violence goes both ways but it still is an enormous problem. Just under 900 children died from abuse in the United States this year. A majority of it happened at the hands of fathers. I still see threads here where an abused woman finally has the courage to tell someone what is going on in their home, testing the waters on what to do, and people are still telling women to stay in abusive relationships and work it out. I hope people realize that most abused people stay in a marriage and never leave, and the divorce rate is high because people are not considering the spiritual aspect of their union, not because abused women leave without trying to make it work.
If this is really an important topic to you I have to question why. There are so many important things in the Bible and to focus on this sais a lot about a person.
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sallybutler
Guest
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Sarcelle
Guest
I doubt it. She was more into the idea of male headship than he was. He had in mind more of a partnership model of marriage.
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Avocadomom
Guest
I always find it humorous when someone willingly chooses to marry another person with certain qualities and personality traits, then immediately starts wondering how they can change their spouse. Build a time machine and marry a different person? I mean, you got to pick one spouse out of billions of candidates. If you chose someone who is incompatible, you need to be the one accepting responsibility for that choice and learning how YOU can change to ensure that the marriage lasts
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ready
Guest
The husband should be the spiritual leader of his household, and his wife should acknowledge this. But this does not mean that the wife has no part in the religious instruction of her children; both parents share in this very important responsibility, there is nothing wrong with a wife teaching her children the Baltimore Catechism. God bless you.
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Bannan
Guest
Oh please.
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petitfleur
Guest
I don't think I would use the word humorous to describe a person in a miserable marriage. I don't think people go into a marriage thinking they will change the other person. I think that often people just don't notice the incompatible parts early on in a relationship because of the attraction or chemistry they feel in the beginning of a relationship. People make mistakes. Sometimes you can work it out and sometimes you cant. I never noticed my husbands appalling table manners until we were married for about a year, that's the kind of thing I get over. When you marry somebody that is abusive, are alcoholics, serial cheaters, or have other serious issues that are not always really obvious should be supported rather than made to feel stupid for getting into the relationship and a source of amusement for you as you sit on your high perch.
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Bannan
Guest
So did the countless multitude of women before you. I took time here because its easy to look at someone like the OP with a huge side eye. In doing so you’ve cast judgement on him. I won’t pretend to say that you are wrong in your judgment, I don’t know. But I also don’t have full certainty that you are right.
I took the time here because on this particular thread, most of the women I read were dismissive of his suggestion that husbands even have the role of spiritual leadership. Perhaps his perspective of spiritual leadership was off, maybe even way off, but denying outright that it exists at all is not going to help shape his marriage into what God desires. I felt what he needed was a clarification of what it was to be a spiritual leader. At best, denying that the husband has a role to play in the family that is unique is just likely to get ignored by the OP.
It was in response to that huge side eye I that I interjected myself onto this forum. Sure, women get undue focus all the time. Here’s what you women do wrong, here’s what you should do, that kind of talk. But your kidding yourselves if you think it is one sided. It may be that in your personal circles of life, when you women call us men out for being unloving, we just know you are right immediately and don’t drag the conversation out resisting your arguments. It may be possible that the conversation is concluded so quickly that sure, it seems like all we ever talk about is what the woman does wrong.
You may have a perception that all anyone ever talks about is what the woman should do. I would suggest that you can’t conclude it’s men’s fault for this perception, either.
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Bannan
Guest
Absolutely agree, 100%. I even say that the wife has equal authority as the husband in the eyes of the children. She has an equal responsibility and burden to teach their children the faith.
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Xantippe
Guest
I have to note that if a young man ever was seriously dating one of my daughters and talking at all about wifely submission or his future spiritual leadership in his home, I would be very concerned and try very hard to get my daughter to put the brakes on the relationship.
This particular preoccupation is such a red flag for immaturity and future abuse.
If he had a strong sense of responsibility and duty and a strong spiritual life, that would be quite a different thing.
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Bannan
Guest
I’m getting used to your extreme responses, Xantippe. I know your not actually serious about giving your daughter’s doter the door just because he might mention something about spiritual leadership in his future household. You’d boot him though if you felt he were in any way planning to domineer your daughter, and that’s a good thing.
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Xantippe
Guest
I can’t realistically force my daughters to drop any particular future guy, but I would certainly consider it a very good idea to educate them (and my son) on the mechanics of abusive relationships and what rights they should expect to have in a relationship.
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LongingSoul
Guest
See I feel the opposite. If someone begins talking about the rights they have in a relationship (other than human rights due to everyone at all times)… I see that as the red flag. Especially if it was my oldest son prospective partner as he is so sweet and caring and empathetic and also has Aspergers syndrom (a lot of people might think that’s an oxymoron… but it is true of my boy!)
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Xantippe
Guest
Those basic human rights are exactly what I’m talking about.
–It’s OK to talk to your family and friends and to spend time without your significant other.
–Both spouses need to have a say in family finances. A wife ought to know roughly how much her husband makes and vice versa.
–Both spouses or significant others deserve some leisure time.
–Both spouses deserve at least a little money that they can spend on themselves without question (blow money or fun money or whatever).
–Childcare and housework are not just for women.
–It shouldn’t be the case that the husband shops at department stores and the wife and kids get their clothes used from yard sales.
–Spouses deserve some freedom in figuring out how to perform their particular household tasks
–It’s OK to say no to sex from time to time.
–Both spouses deserve to be able to go to their particular house of worship and to practice their religion
I’m sure that doesn’t cover all of the basics, but it’s a start. You’ll notice that even a basic list is really long.
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sailor28
Guest
Bannan,
I’ve been following the conversation.I sincerely would like to hear examples of how this headship plays out in your marriage. Please give specific details. I have mostly heard talk of men being the spiritual head etc but I do not hear what this means to you in practical terms. (If I missed that please point it out)
I’ve been following the conversation.I sincerely would like to hear examples of how this headship plays out in your marriage. Please give specific details. I have mostly heard talk of men being the spiritual head etc but I do not hear what this means to you in practical terms. (If I missed that please point it out)
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sailor28
Guest
Although I have not been a part of this conversation I am listening to it.
I completely agree with this. Submission is one of the most abused concepts in scripture.
I completely agree with this. Submission is one of the most abused concepts in scripture.
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LongingSoul
Guest
But so is ‘rights’ a most abused concept. If something is abused by some, does that mean that it should be abandoned?
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Walking_Home
Guest
Bannan:
I can’t realistically force my daughters to drop any particular future guy, but I would certainly consider it a very good idea to educate them (and my son) on the mechanics of abusive relationships and what rights they should expect to have in a relationship.
Yes – agree.
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sailor28
Guest
Of course not, mutual submission is important in marriage.
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