Will "Altar Girls" lead to Women Priests?

[Onegin]

Interesting thread. Does anyone know if there is a correlation between more “altar girls” and less boys wanting to be altar servers? I have heard of parishes where, once girls were introduced, the boys quit volunteering because they did not want to do what was now considered the girls’ activity.

Just something to think about.

 

[Bluegoat]

Interesting thread. Does anyone know if there is a correlation between more “altar girls” and less boys wanting to be altar servers? I have heard of parishes where, once girls were introduced, the boys quit volunteering because they did not want to do what was now considered the girls’ activity.

Just something to think about.

If it does, they should be spanked. The boys I mean.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

No, it won’t happen because the connection between altar service and vocations has been severed. Altar service used to emphasize the service and put the boys in a positon to have a “brush” with the concept of priesthood. As one poster here put it, the focus of altar service has become the children themselves.

Altar service didn’t use to have, as its purpose to be a learning experience for the kids.

(not picking on you kozlosap. whether you meant to or not, you put into words the idea I wanted to express)

Altar service has classically been a bit like an apprenticeship for the priesthood, which has three functions: (1) to serve Mass; (2) to interest the server in the priesthood; (3) to teach them about the priesthood, the altar, and the Mass. Obviously, (2) doesn’t apply to female servers, but (1) and (3) still do.

Regarding (3), being an altar server can be an excellent form of catechesis, even *if *that’s not its primary purpose. The server becomes aware of subtle aspects of the Mass he or she probably never noticed before. It’s the same reason that med students are required to do in-house training, seeing hands-on how things work. And even if the server never goes on to become a priest, that hands-on experience with what’s going on up on the altar can leave an indelible mark.

Full disclosure: I’m for all-male altar boys, and am thankful my parish permits only boys. I think it sends a signal about the nature of altar service, and I think that many of the valid lay ministries at the altar are being abused to try and open the window for women’s ordination (something which is both impossible, and a reprehensible goal). But that’s a personal preference. The Church has spoken on this one – it’s not forbidden, or ontologically impossible, for women to serve the altar. That means both sides of this debate are well within the bounds of orthodoxy - let’s not demonize one side or the other, or treat them as “less Catholic” than use for doing something the Church says is permissible.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Really? It is “allowed” by the Church. When and IF the practice becomes “against the law”, then parents will explain to their female children that they are not allowed to serve, until then, the truth of current Church practice is in place. I attend 7:30 a.m. Sunday Mass every week. Last Sunday the alter servers (not sure if they were male or female) did not show up. Who served Mass - a beautiful 70 year old widow who is very active in all parish activities! She is a RCIA teacher and CCD instructor. During weekday morning masses she also serves. I did not hear one of the 250 attendees at Mass complain or talk about being scandalized. I, for one, thanked the Lord that Jeanne was there to serve. Our assistant Pastor was also grateful and indicated so at the end of Mass. Of course, this is a Jesuit parish eek with a congregation that is very loving and thoughtful, so what more can I say?

Well, a smart parent would explain to their daughter(s) that although God created everyone, male and female, equal in dignity, He did not create them all the same. Everyone has a role intended by God to fulfill in building His Kingdom on earth. Not every role is intended for everyone. Males cannot have babies and give birth to persons who will live forever. Does this mean that God hates males? No! By the same token, He has ordained that women cannot be priests.

A smart parent would also point out that while women cannot be priests, there are more female Saints than male Saints. The goal is to go to heaven and become a Saint, not to fulfill one’s ego on earth.

And a smart parent would tell this in the most living, gentle way possible to their daugther(s).

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

What are you talking about? If anyone should be chastised, it should be the girls and the parents who allow them to infringe upon something that is traditionally all male and should remain that way…but hey, they have managed to infilitrate everything that is “all male” in this world…why limit themselves to things in secular society??? It is only fitting that they would try to infiltrate The Church too. Sad state of affairs…that is all I can say. I can understand why young men would love the desire to serve once they were introduced. It is no longer unique and special for them

If it does, they should be spanked. The boys I mean.

 

[Milesius]

I would say the issue is bigger than alter girls effects on boys.

In my opinion any instance of women in the sanctuary leads to less men in the Church.

Women in the sanctuary tells men religion is a social club for women.

They then stop going to Church.

No men no priests, no priests no Sacraments.

Of course its not all down to women in the sanctuary, there are many other contributing factors that have led to the feminisation of the religious experience on offer in most Christian churches and religious communities in the western world, but this is one of the bigger ones.

 

[FirstCalled]

In my parish we are lucky to have 1,2, or 3 altar servers on occasion at the Novus Ordo mass. At least 1 of them is a girl usually; the guys don’t seem particularly interested in serving, whether or not it’s because they will serve with a girl I don’t know.
The other mass down the street at another parish has the Tridentine mass, and they have 12! altar servers, all male of course. It is amazing to see.

I’d say that perhaps less altar servers at the NO mass because of girls, and NO masses they really don’t appear to do too much; not like the sense of accomplishment they get by learning to serve the Tridentine mass.

And yes, people will try to push for women priests and use altar serving, lectors, EMHC as reasons to allow it; but it will never happen.

 

[HickmanJosh]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

When I was Catholic, I was completely put off by the whole idea of altar girls. I am almost positive that one would not find them at a Tridentine Mass, but they are rather common amongst the Novus Ordo types. Does anyone think that altar girls will eventually lead to female deacons and eventually priests? I think it’s only a logical step (unless the practice is to completely cease, of course), but that it would most likely cause a schism in the Church of Rome.

Anyone have thoughts about this?

In Christ,
Andrew

It is not possible

 

[Bluegoat]

What are you talking about? If anyone should be chastised, it should be the girls and the parents who allow them to infringe upon something that is traditionally all male and should remain that way…but hey, they have managed to infilitrate everything that is “all male” in this world…why limit themselves to things in secular society??? It is only fitting that they would try to infiltrate The Church too. Sad state of affairs…that is all I can say. I can understand why young men would love the desire to serve once they were introduced. It is no longer unique and special for them

I would say the issue is bigger than alter girls effects on boys.

In my opinion any instance of women in the sanctuary leads to less men in the Church.

Women in the sanctuary tells men religion is a social club for women.

They then stop going to Church.

No men no priests, no priests no Sacraments.

Of course its not all down to women in the sanctuary, there are many other contributing factors that have led to the feminisation of the religious experience on offer in most Christian churches and religious communities in the western world, but this is one of the bigger ones.

What I am saying is that if men don’t go to church because there are women there, than they are pathetic. If boys refuse to be altar servers because girls do it, they should seriously get a talking to from their parents.

Women are not an alternate species. It is possible to talk to them, to serve with them, to work on committees with them. If any man told me he wasn’t more involved because there were a lot of women, I cannot see that as anything other than an excuse.

And FWIW, I think in a lot of cases things are dominated by women because men haven’t stepped up.

 

[truoc]

If boys only stopped wanting to be altar boys because girls were introduced, then it stands to reason there were plenty of altar boys before. So if there were plenty of altar boys, why were girls introduced?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

As an abuse injected by the modernist enemies of the Church…meant to hurt the Liturgy…to weaken and cripple it. This abuse spiraled out of control until Rome capitulated and now we fast forward to today…Pretty successful if you ask me. And the worst part is that good meaning Catholic actively participate because they don’t know any better…the complain about the current state of The Church, yet simultaneously they are part of the reason for its decline.

If boys only stopped wanting to be altar boys because girls were introduced, then it stands to reason there were plenty of altar boys before. So if there were plenty of altar boys, why were girls introduced?

 

[kozlosap]

Not to worry - no one hurting my feelings! I guess my “touching” story was just to illustrate that females servings at Mass are perfectly “fine” for some Catholics. As an educator (high school) for thirty years then I am perfectly confident in believing that if a teenage boy is scared away from serving at Mass because there are female alter servers then he has no business becoming a priest or having any vocation were he will come into contact with 50% of the population. Yes, in these “bad days”, over 50% of the students in both med school and law school are women. Does it make me a super liberal “feminist” to think that this is OK? I don’t think so. I have never thought, or taught my DD25, that women should be able to become priests - I don’t believe that that women should be priests. I do, however, believe that women and young girls should have active roles in their parishes and serve in whatever roles the Church allows. Just a question for those of you who oppose girls serving mass - what/how would you have them be an active member and feel that they are part of the parish and serving the Lord? (please don’t suggest that they be part of a group that “decorates”).

 

[abort73catholic]

What I am saying is that if men don’t go to church because there are women there, than they are pathetic. If boys refuse to be altar servers because girls do it, they should seriously get a talking to from their parents.

Women are not an alternate species. It is possible to talk to them, to serve with them, to work on committees with them. If any man told me he wasn’t more involved because there were a lot of women, I cannot see that as anything other than an excuse.

And FWIW, I think in a lot of cases things are dominated by women because men haven’t stepped up.

Just wanted to say that I agree with this statement, especially the last sentence, especially in my parish. I attend NO Masses because I am in a rural area, and that is the only ones offered here. The priest at my parish is already stretched between two parishes, and he has a lot on his plate. My mom has served as the sacristan for a long time, and why? Because no one else has stepped up to take the job. She lines up Mass intentions for those who have died. Once a month, she and my dad (in formation to be ordained a deacon) take Communion around to the homebound. She used to handle all the decorating in the church, but thankfully we got some people to start taking that over.

So where are all the men to offer their services?

Sometimes I think people don’t want to step up is because they are afraid of being tied down to something. If they put as much work into their church as they did into their job, maybe we wouldn’t have this problem.

With that being said, I am a girl (moving off to Benedictine College as a freshman in a little over a week) and I served at Mass when I was younger (please remember that I’m in a rural area…we pretty much needed those extra servers so the guys wouldn’t be so overwhelmed). I am a mandated reader. I also played the piano for Mass. I think what I did was completely acceptable. If you don’t want female altar servers, then attend Mass where there are none. As such, I doubt any of us will change each other’s minds, and I don’t want to argue. Just my two cents.

 

[FirstCalled]

If boys only stopped wanting to be altar boys because girls were introduced, then it stands to reason there were plenty of altar boys before. So if there were plenty of altar boys, why were girls introduced?

Because upper management didn’t want to appear misogynist. Big mistake on their part. But then again, they ripped not only potential vocations apart but the whole sanctuary by letting laypeople trample all over it throughout mass.

 

[ConstantineTG]

LOL

Sorry if this is not related to the topic at hand, but don’t you find it hilarious that there are several thrads on altar girls ongoing at the same time in the Traditional forum, L&S forum, and Catholic News forum?

 

[kozlosap]

Just wanted to say that I agree with this statement, especially the last sentence, especially in my parish. I attend NO Masses because I am in a rural area, and that is the only ones offered here. The priest at my parish is already stretched between two parishes, and he has a lot on his plate. My mom has served as the sacristan for a long time, and why? Because no one else has stepped up to take the job. She lines up Mass intentions for those who have died. Once a month, she and my dad (in formation to be ordained a deacon) take Communion around to the homebound. She used to handle all the decorating in the church, but thankfully we got some people to start taking that over.

So where are all the men to offer their services?

Sometimes I think people don’t want to step up is because they are afraid of being tied down to something. If they put as much work into their church as they did into their job, maybe we wouldn’t have this problem.

With that being said, I am a girl (moving off to Benedictine College as a freshman in a little over a week) and I served at Mass when I was younger (please remember that I’m in a rural area…we pretty much needed those extra servers so the guys wouldn’t be so overwhelmed). I am a mandated reader. I also played the piano for Mass. I think what I did was completely acceptable. If you don’t want female altar servers, then attend Mass where there are none. As such, I doubt any of us will change each other’s minds, and I don’t want to argue. Just my two cents.

It sounds to me like you have been serving the Church in many more ways than most of us! Congrats on going off to college next week and I pray you have a very wonderful experience! It is funny how when the men of a parish don’t step up to take certain jobs and lay responsibilities then it is “perfectly” fine for women to do so…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Because upper management didn’t want to appear misogynist. Big mistake on their part. But then again, they ripped not only potential vocations apart but the whole sanctuary by letting laypeople trample all over it throughout mass.

You mean there are no laypeople in the sanctuary in the past?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

1. Abortions and contraception is “perfectly fine” for some Catholics as well…but that will never change my mind about the two…and just because one person is party to an abuse, doesn’t make it ok for everybody else.
2. How about receiving the Precious, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord at every mass? That isn’t good enough for them? Perhaps they should become nuns, voluneer to become missionaries, join the Latin Liturgy Association, KofC Ladies Auxillary or something else that doesn’t involve them playing “men” in roles that were once and still should be positions reserved exclusively for men.

Not to worry - no one hurting my feelings! I guess my “touching” story was just to illustrate that females servings at Mass are perfectly “fine” for some Catholics.

Just a question for those of you who oppose girls serving mass - what/how would you have them be an active member and feel that they are part of the parish and serving the Lord? (please don’t suggest that they be part of a group that “decorates”).

 

[PaulinVA]

Wow.

As a father of a son and daughters, I find the opinions expressed here very troubling.

The call of the Holy Spirit to the priesthood is thwarted by 10 year old girls serving on the altar? Really? Do you people really think that a priestly vocation hinges on whether the man got to be an altar boy in an all-male setting? Men called to the priesthood are that fragile?

If allowing girls to serv on the altar tells boys that religion is “girly” and ruins the Church, then what does excluding girls from everything tell them?

I never thought I would say anything in favor of altar girls(I don’t care one way or the other) but really… This is troubling.

 

[Milesius]

If boys only stopped wanting to be altar boys because girls were introduced, then it stands to reason there were plenty of altar boys before. So if there were plenty of altar boys, why were girls introduced?

False equality