Will "Altar Girls" lead to Women Priests?

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I’m sorry, but your question makes no sense at all? Do you realize there is such thing as a “Permanent Deacon” and a “Transitional Deacon”?

Something I find missing from this thread is the related discussion about how wrong it must be for married men to be Deacons. If female altar servers means they will want to be priests and meet with frustration when they cannot, then please explain why that same logic does not apply to married men as Deacons. Surely they will “want to become priests” and run headlong into the same obstacle, this time being the celibacy thing.

We don’t see that problem, yet if the female server logic is true, then we not only should, but must. Since we don’t, I think the argument is refuted. Also, where is the evidence that any girl who serves at the altar where allowed is going to end up frustrated over denial of Holy Orders. Can anyone name a single person claiming to be in this situation, or is this all just imaginary, wishful thinking?

If you simply don’t like it, meaning you don’t prefer it, why not just say that? Why try to offer situations that someday, maybe, might, possibly, if the wind blows the right way… happen?

 

[Milesius]

Okay. So, if a boy is in the pew, and a girl is serving at the Altar, the boy has been shut out, and he will want to go home and cry, and he will never want to come to Church again, because of his tender ego.

But if a girl is in the pew, and a boy is serving at the Altar, this is fine, and the girl should not feel like anything is wrong.

Please explain.

Nope no crying, not by boys or girls.

The thought process of the boy on seeing a girl serving at the altar is something like this, girls serve at the altar, I am not a girl so I don’t serve at the altar, no crying or anything, plenty of other interesting things to do when not at church so the boy doesn’t really care one way or another.

Why would a girl even think its a problem? They don’t naturally think anything is wrong that is the thing, not unless someone plants the seed there and nurtures it in them. 99% of the parish don’t serve on the altar, they don’t have a problem why would she?

Their parents might care due the corruption of feminism on their mind and teach the child to care but otherwise young girls accept the reasons why they don’t serve on the altar with humility, if they even ask in the first place. And it would be an excellent time to explain to her how while men and women are equal in dignity but at the same time different with different tasks and different gifts.

As is always the case with children it is the parents who are the problem not the child.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I promise you…I meant no harm and when I generalized, it was not to those couples who honestly leave it in the hands of God and try their best to have children…I feel for you and I hope God does bless your family with many children. What I was talking about though, is the proven disparity between Catholics who attend the OF vs. those who attend only the EF. There is a huge chasm between those groups and it is widely known that “on average” and certainly not inlcuding all in attendance, that the Catholics who attend NO Mass contracept at the same rate as the national average…likewise belief in the Real Presence is only somewhere at like 30-40%…those numbers are horrible!!! At a TLM parish though, whether it be diocesesan, SSPX, FSSP, etc. those numbers are a polar opposite and the pews are filled with families that have the large number of kids I was talking about and there is no shortage of boys/young men to serve. That is a fact…and with that in mind, it must tell you something.

Please don’t judge people like this. I am in my 30s and have only 1 child–it’s not for lack of trying, it was just God’s will (and his blessing as I thought I was infertile). I am not saying you are wrong about possible contraception use, but I am saying it’s very hard and hurtful to those who struggle to have children to assume.

 

[jmcrae]

Nope no crying, not by boys or girls.

The thought process is like this, girls serve at the altar, I am not a girl so I don’t serve at the altar, no crying or anything, plenty of other interesting things to do when not at church so the boy doesn’t really care one way or another.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Cardinal is just one example. The Holy Father himself who allowed the practice is the one who said that it’s not recommended…

And yet it is still allowed. Doesn’t that tell you something?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Thats a great way to inspire vocations…compulsory service on the altar. Do they all have to fill out First Communion Selective Service Cards and be drafted to serve? I can think of a lot of good rules for a parish, but that is not one of them.

Here are some suggestions for some good rules:

1. Communion on the tongue while kneeling, only
2. No EMHC’s
3. Only boys serving as Cantors, Lectors, Sacristans, or as altar boys
4. no inclusive language
5. no holding hands during Our Father
6. address priest as Father (last name)…Not Fr. Tom or Fr. Billy

Those are just a few…that is a NO parish I could be enthusiastic about attending

Milesius;6942968:

Nope no crying, not by boys or girls.

So, ten boys and one girl, and suddenly it’s a “girl thing”? Wow.

Actually, the rule at our parish is that 100% of the children, once they have received First Holy Communion, serve at the Altar at every Mass they attend (unless they are reading, ushering, or singing in the choir), until they reach 16 years of age. (Older teens can serve if for some reason there are no younger children present, such as at Midnight Mass or Easter Vigil.)

Our Pastor does not like to see any child out in the congregation not doing anything.

 

[Milesius]

It also damages the girls by having them serve at the altar to by encouraging her to masculinise herself instead of developing her own feminine character as God intended by the way, it is not boys versus girls thing as some of you seem determined to try and make it.

It is in the interests of both girls and boys the Church and the whole of society for girls not to masculinise themselves by filling male roles.

What the world needs just as much as good men is truly feminine women who have the courage to be women and not feel they need to act like men and do what men do in order for them to have any value.

Such an attitude is a denial of the God given dignity of women and it is women themselves who are denying it.

If you are parents to daughters do your daughters a favour and read The Privilege of Being a Woman by Alice von Hildebrand

 

[CDNowak]

Because it is an appropriate way for children to be of service to Christ and to their parish, and it’s a means for them to develop the habit of volunteerism at an early age. I don’t know of any other Church ministries that children as young as seven would be allowed to do.

Their are plenty of other ways to volunteer, even for the parish, even at the age of seven (see below): cleaning the Church, choir, food drives, handing out bulletins, assisting with coffee and donuts (as they get older) care of the altar linens, child care assistance, ushering…

The only parishes I know that allow servers before the end of fifth grade only have boys. By that age their is little that they are unable to do.

So my question remains.

 

[JosephdeMaistre]

What the world needs just as much as good men is truly feminine women who have the courage to be women and not feel they need to act like men and do what men do in order for them to have any value.

Very very good post here.

When you are around a woman who acts like a woman, it’s a noticeable difference. It’s not an act, but the way it was meant to be. I’ve never seen a single liberal feminist woman who was not depressed and treated poorly by the men she knew, but who also knew exactly why women needed to drop those chains and become empowered! They are truly their own worst enemy.

 

[ProVobis]

Its a matter of discerning when does he speak for the Pope and when does he speak out of his own opinion. Or even if its an opinion shared with the Pope, but still an opinion.

A high-ranking member of the Magisterium of the Church is just voicing his “opinion”? I believe his words have more weight than yours or mine.

Even the Pope doesn’t enjoy infallability with everything he says, even if its faith related.

You’ll have a lot of disagreement there.

 

[ConstantineTG]

A high-level member of the Magisterium of the Church is only voicing an opinion?

You’ll have a lot of disagreement here.

So they lose the ability to voice an opinion because of their position?

Like I said, even the Pope doesn’t speak infallibly all the time. If they are speaking under the power of their position, why are we even debating this right now? Altar girls should have been banned outright. The fact that it still is allowed means what they expressed is merely an opinion. Until it becomes Church Law, its just their opinion.

 

[ProVobis]

Its a matter of discerning when does he speak for the Pope and when does he speak out of his own opinion. Or even if its an opinion shared with the Pope, but still an opinion.

A high-ranking member of the Magisterium of the Church is just voicing his “opinion”? I believe his words carry more weight than yours or mine.

Even the Pope doesn’t enjoy infallability with everything he says, even if its faith related.

You’ll have a lot of disagreement there.

 

[jmcrae]

It is in the interests of both girls and boys the Church and the whole of society for girls not to masculinise themselves by filling male roles.

What is it that is specifically “male” about any of the things that Altar servers do?

 

[pnewton]

I would think the opinion of Cardinal Arinze would be considered the closest thing to an expert on the subject one is likely to find. However, it does not override either canon law or what the Holy Father does. Cardinal Arinze was very clear that it was an opinion and he was very respectful of those that do allow girl altar servers and said they may have good reasons. Even in his position, he kept his opinion humble.

 

[ProVobis]

What is it that is specifically “male” about any of the things that Altar servers do?

Or the priest for that matter?

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, I am still deeply troubled by the misogynistic tenor of many of the posts in this thread.

Between the misogyny and the portrayal as boys as fragile little things that are harmed by girls participating in the same things they do, I am just at a loss for words.

I don’t believe that one must be an altar boy to be a priest. I’m just saddened by the vehemence of some of the posts, and the appearance that some traditionalists are cafeteria Catholics just like the liberals.

 

[CDNowak]

Milesius;6942968:

Actually, the rule at our parish is that 100% of the children, once they have received First Holy Communion, serve at the Altar at every Mass they attend (unless they are reading, ushering, or singing in the choir), until they reach 16 years of age. (Older teens can serve if for some reason there are no younger children present, such as at Midnight Mass or Easter Vigil.)

Our Pastor does not like to see any child out in the congregation not doing anything.

Wow… its Activity is not synonymous with participation…

 

[edwest2]

It also damages the girls by having them serve at the altar to by encouraging her to masculinise herself instead of developing her own feminine character as God intended by the way, it is not boys versus girls thing as some of you seem determined to try and make it.

It is in the interests of both girls and boys the Church and the whole of society for girls not to masculinise themselves by filling male roles.

What the world needs just as much as good men is truly feminine women who have the courage to be women and not feel they need to act like men and do what men do in order for them to have any value.

Such an attitude is a denial of the God given dignity of women and it is women themselves who are denying it.

If you are parents to daughters do your daughters a favour and read The Privilege of Being a Woman by Alice von Hildebrand

Oh fer cryin’ out loud. Girls, as yet, have no concept of masculinizing themselves. They look for the guidance of their mother, father and priest.

Only the outside world is interested in ‘power struggles’ and equal equality (in an Xtreme girls are men kind of way). There are some who are not content to rearrange the furniture in their own homes, they want to reorder society as well. If you let them, they, and certainly not the Church, will convince you that you should feel this way or that way, since that’s the way they see it. Some want to foster divisions where none should exist.

I believe too many women deny their own dignity because they are spending too much time watching TV and movies where women are portrayed as constantly denying their own dignity. Along with men. Put down that trashy magazine about celebrities.

God bless,
Ed

 

[MarkThompson]

A high-ranking member of the Magisterium of the Church is just voicing his “opinion”? I believe his words carry more weight than yours or mine.

So do Cardinal Mahony’s (another high-ranking member of the Magisterium ). Would you like to check on his opinion, or is it less important since he probably doesn’t agree with you?

You’ll have a lot of disagreement there.

Then he’ll have a lot of people who either totally misread what he said, or have no idea what papal infallibility is all about.

 

[Milesius]

And yet it is still allowed. Doesn’t that tell you something?

Yes, it tells me that the Church has been a little to generous in trying to appease dissenters in the last few decades. And now they have made a rod for their own back because they have gone as far as they can possibly go and the dissenters still are not satisfied.