Will few men be saved?

[Vico]

It is absurd to believe the vast majority of God’s children are so diabolical they deserve eternal punishment.

There were 1/3 of the angels drawn down (condemned) with the dragon. The great red dragon, the old serpent, is called the devil and Satan. So it may be similar in man.

Summa Theologica, St. Thomas Aquinas: Question 63. The malice of the angels with regard to sin. Article 8 Whether the sin of the highest angel was the cause of the others sinning?** On the contrary,** It is said (Apocalypse 12:4) that the dragon “drew” with him “the third part of the stars of heaven.”

Revelation 12

3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth:

and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.

7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: 8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

 

[Pope_St_Leo]

It is absurd to believe the vast majority of God’s children are so diabolical they deserve eternal punishment.

I know how you feel. We cannot see our sinfulness apart from God’s grace, and so we look at ourselves and others and we think: “An eternal hell for THIS?! That’s rather disproportionate God!”

But there is a fundamental error here in the underlying thinking.

Salvation is a gift. It is purely GRATUITOUS gift. We don’t deserve it. Let me be more clear: Every single soul born into this world, born in the flesh, from the moment of Conception is, in Justice, unworthy of Heaven, and is indeed subject to the wrath of God and punishment for Original Sin alone. Now you may call this Protestant and extreme, but it is the Explicit teaching of the Church.

“3. If any one asserts, that this sin of Adam,–which in its origin is one, and being transfused into all by propagation, not by imitation, is in each one as his own, --is taken away either by the powers of human nature, or by any other remedy than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath reconciled us to God in his own blood, made unto us justice, santification, and redemption; or if he denies that the said merit of Jesus Christ is applied, both to adults and to infants, by the sacrament of baptism rightly administered in the form of the church; let him be anathema: For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be [Page 23] saved. Whence that voice; Behold the lamb of God behold him who taketh away the sins of the world; and that other; As many as have been baptized, have put on Christ.”
-Ecumenical Council of Trent Session 5, history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct05.html

Again, Original Sin alone, that which we are born with and receive through Human propagation, by itself, and without any personal sin, is enough to Send one to Hell:

"“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, to be punished however with different [disparibus] punishments.”
-Ecumenical Council of Lyons II

I know how it feels to read this, to think: Are you implying an Infant can have no salvation without baptism?! How unfair!

It is not what I say, the church teaches there is no other way for them to be saved:

“The holy Roman church, founded on the words of our Lord and Saviour, firmly believes, professes and preaches that … With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and** the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism** by which they are** snatched away from the dominion of the devil **and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or a woman in the form of the church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians. ”
-Ecumenical Council of Florence.

So we need to understand:

We are not OWED Salvation. We are OWED Damnation and eternal punishment. We are born under the DOminion of the Devil, the Sin and Guilt of Adam is in EACH PERSON as his own. There is no remedy for this other than baptism.

And instead of getting upset at God for making it hard for us, we should fall down and thank him for his great mercy! For in our darkness, he has shown forth his light! In our blindness, he has offered healing! Instead of souls being born today and damned tomorrow, he has offered us the waters of baptism for the healing of our soul!

Yes, the backdrop is dark, but it is the reality. Without acknowledging the reality of our sinfulness, and of the fact that humanity is a Mass of Damnation (As St. Augustine would say) We cannot comprehend fully the extent of his Mercy: That he bowed down the heavens and descended to US, to the sinners, to those born in darkness, worthy of only punishment and exile! How Great is his love for us! How great is his mercy!

And yet we complain, “Lord, you aren’t saving everyone! They aren’t all going to Heaven!” He never promised they would. He always assured us that the masses would be damned. He himself says so:

‘Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!’
Matthew 7:13-14

‘Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.’
Luke 13:23-24

‘For many are called, but few chosen.’
Mark 20:16

‘The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite.’
Ecclesiastes 1:15

As Pope St. Gregory the Great says: “Even the infant of a single day is not pure in his sight.”

So, let us be aware that we must submit. We are Catholics. We must bow our necks and submit our hearts to the Teaching Authority of the Church. We must be gentle and docile and accept the reality as it is presented, not as we wish to reinterpret it or explain it away. We cannot afford such mental fantasies and idols.

Unless we repent and are baptized, we will be condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already. That is why it is not unjust for any unbeliever in any life circumstance to go to hell, because condemnation is what we are born into.

May God be merciful to us and grant us a pure and limpid heart to gently and willingly accept the teaching of the Church.

 

[brandonmorris]

I think from what I understand of the passage and according to the magisterium there is a number of passages that states many will be saved. I think what Jesus was implying is that when one chooses to go the narrow way how hard it is to make it through and many give up. It’s a type of expression to describe something. If only a few was to be saved then it would make it really hard to understand that God’s grace is for many . and that God desires all men to be saved and many will .

 

[Pope_St_Leo]

I think from what I understand of the passage and according to the magisterium there is a number of passages that states many will be saved. I think what Jesus was implying is that when one chooses to go the narrow way how hard it is to make it through and many give up. It’s a type of expression to describe something. If only a few was to be saved then it would make it really hard to understand that God’s grace is for many . and that God desires all men to be saved and many will .

I think you are trying to say what St. Augustine said:

‘Not all, nor even a majority, are saved. . . **They are indeed many, if regarded by themselves, **but they are few in comparison with the far larger number of those who shall be punished with the devil.’
St. Augustine, Doctor and Father of the Church

Christ’s death is Sufficient for all, but not efficient for all, because most choose to resist the sufficient grace offered to them.

‘Nothing afflicts the heart of Jesus so much as to see all His sufferings of no avail to so many.’
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars, Patron Saint of Parish Priests

 

[brandonmorris]

Exactly , it’s ultimately up to the individual’s decision in the end. We can also look how God will judge each one of our deeds and the rest is His doing on who is the sheep and who is the goat. I think that often to many times we are so concerned with how many is going to be in Hell or Heaven which is a good thing, but we should focus on how are lives are impacting those around us and be striving to save others so they can make to Heaven and not Hell. Let’s use the day that we have been gifted for good today for someone else to have a chance at Eternal Life:thumbsup:

 

[GodMadeMe]

So what about the person who IS good in their heart, they have no hate for anyone, always choosing to do good things in their life, never harming anyone, etc. BUT they do not go to church, receive the body and blood, not because they hate God or are evil, they just choose not to do those things…If God truly judges whats in their hearts, then only good will be found.

The functions and tools of the church are their to help us on our way. More good will be done by those who are closest to the church, because they are closest to what good truly is. While a person who does not go to church and does not believe in its functions will be limited insofar as expressing the good according to the church.

For example, assuming that the church represents the fullness of truth, a person who is good in the heart but does not act faithfully according to the function of the church will unknowingly produce error such as saying to young people that there is nothing wrong with gay sex and that God made them that way. But It is not necessarily their fault that they have produced this error, they are merely deceived by what appears to be the right thing to do. They are not acting maliciously against the truth precisely because it is evident that they have a good heart.

Invincible ignorance will preserve them in the eyes of God, so long as their heart is good. God can still work through them. You must love your enemies. A great many of them have no idea what they are doing.

 

[Pope_St_Leo]

So what about the person who IS good in their heart, they have no hate for anyone, always choosing to do good things in their life, never harming anyone, etc. BUT they do not go to church, receive the body and blood, not because they hate God or are evil, they just choose not to do those things…If God truly judges whats in their hearts, then only good will be found.

Here is another misunderstanding Mikekle, there is NO ONE who is “good enough” by nature. Supernatural goodness cannot be had without Christ, all there can be had is an insufficient sort of bare natural goodness. But even in that case, it is covered over with or sins, our misunderstandings and our ignorance, to where it is hardly anything worthy of the name, “good.”

If a person CHOOSES NOT to be Catholic, they will be lost. Infallibly and every single time.

What do they have in their favor? They would not be invincibly ignorant, because they obviously have access to the Church but reject it, they do not have sacraments to aid them in grace, and presumably, they aren’t even baptized. So what hope is there for such a person? Without repentance, should they die, there is no hope. What we need to hope for is that our prayers will aid the person in question to repent, so they can become Children of God AUTHENTICALLY by being joined to his Church.

Only those who are BAPTIZED are Children of God, because only they have received the adoption of God. And among them, only those who persevere in the Truth will make it to heaven.

So, if a person dies trusting in their own goodness, outside the Church, they cannot be saved. How could they? What gospel will they hear untainted by heresy? How will they receive grace when they have rejected the opportunities to go to Church? How will they have their sins remitted if they are never justified, and how can they be justified without faith hope and Charity? And how can they have that unless we tell them they are in danger of Hell?

 

[tonyrey]

I know how you feel. We cannot see our sinfulness apart from God’s grace, and so we look at ourselves and others and we think: “An eternal hell for THIS?! That’s rather disproportionate God!”

But there is a fundamental error here in the underlying thinking.

Salvation is a gift. It is purely GRATUITOUS gift. We don’t deserve it. Let me be more clear: Every single soul born into this world, born in the flesh, from the moment of Conception is, in Justice, unworthy of Heaven, and is indeed subject to the wrath of God and punishment for Original Sin alone. Now you may call this Protestant and extreme, but it is the Explicit teaching of the Church.

“3. If any one asserts, that this sin of Adam,–which in its origin is one, and being transfused into all by propagation, not by imitation, is in each one as his own, --is taken away either by the powers of human nature, or by any other remedy than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath reconciled us to God in his own blood, made unto us justice, santification, and redemption; or if he denies that the said merit of Jesus Christ is applied, both to adults and to infants, by the sacrament of baptism rightly administered in the form of the church; let him be anathema: For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be [Page 23] saved…”
-Ecumenical Council of Trent Session 5, history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct05.html

Again, Original Sin alone, that which we are born with and receive through Human propagation, by itself, and without any personal sin, is enough to Send one to Hell:

"“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, to be punished however with different [disparibus] punishments.”
-Ecumenical Council of Lyons II

I know how it feels to read this, to think: Are you implying an Infant can have no salvation without baptism?! How unfair!

It is not what I say, the church teaches there is no other way for them to be saved:

“The holy Roman church, founded on the words of our Lord and Saviour, firmly believes, professes and preaches that … With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and** the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism** by which they are** snatched away from the dominion of the devil **and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or a woman in the form of the church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians. ”
-Ecumenical Council of Florence.

So we need to understand:

We are not OWED Salvation. We are OWED Damnation and eternal punishment. We are born under the DOminion of the Devil, the Sin and Guilt of Adam is in EACH PERSON as his own. There is no remedy for this other than baptism.

And instead of getting upset at God for making it hard for us, we should fall down and thank him for his great mercy! For in our darkness, he has shown forth his light! In our blindness, he has offered healing! Instead of souls being born today and damned tomorrow, he has offered us the waters of baptism for the healing of our soul!

Yes, the backdrop is dark, but it is the reality. Without acknowledging the reality of our sinfulness, and of the fact that humanity is a Mass of Damnation (As St. Augustine would say) We cannot comprehend fully the extent of his Mercy: That he bowed down the heavens and descended to US, to the sinners, to those born in darkness, worthy of only punishment and exile! How Great is his love for us! How great is his mercy!

…As Pope St. Gregory the Great says: “Even the infant of a single day is not pure in his sight.”

So, let us be aware that we must submit. We are Catholics. We must bow our necks and submit our hearts to the Teaching Authority of the Church. We must be gentle and docile and accept the reality as it is presented, not as we wish to reinterpret it or explain it away. We cannot afford such mental fantasies and idols.

Unless we repent and are baptized, we will be condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already. That is why it is not unjust for any unbeliever in any life circumstance to go to hell, because condemnation is what we are born into.

May God be merciful to us and grant us a pure and limpid heart to gently and willingly accept the teaching of the Church.

405 **Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. **It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

There is also baptism of desire for those who never have the opportunity to know Christ’s teaching but live good lives and baptism by blood for those who die in the war against evil.

It remains true that it is absurd to believe the vast majority of God’s children are so diabolical they deserve eternal punishment. To do so belittles the power of Christ’s love and sacrifice on the Cross for every single member of the human race.

 

[tonyrey]

The functions and tools of the church are their to help us on our way. More good will be done by those who are closest to the church, because they are closest to what good truly is. While a person who does not go to church and does not believe in its functions will be limited insofar as expressing the good according to the church.

For example, assuming that the church represents the fullness of truth, a person who is good in the heart but does not act faithfully according to the function of the church will unknowingly produce error such as saying to young people that there is nothing wrong with gay sex and that God made them that way. But It is not necessarily their fault that they have produced this error, they are merely deceived by what appears to be the right thing to do. They are not acting maliciously against the truth precisely because it is evident that they have a good heart.

Invincible ignorance will preserve them in the eyes of God, so long as their heart is good. God can still work through them. You must love your enemies. A great many of them have no idea what they are doing.

The key words are:

“Invincible ignorance will preserve them in the eyes of God, so long as their heart is good.”

 

[GodMadeMe]

Here is another misunderstanding Mikekle, there is NO ONE who is “good enough” by nature. Supernatural goodness cannot be had without Christ, all there can be had is an insufficient sort of bare natural goodness. But even in that case, it is covered over with or sins, our misunderstandings and our ignorance, to where it is hardly anything worthy of the name, “good.”

If a person CHOOSES NOT to be Catholic, they will be lost. Infallibly and every single time.

What do they have in their favor? They would not be invincibly ignorant, because they obviously have access to the Church but reject it, they do not have sacraments to aid them in grace, and presumably, they aren’t even baptized. So what hope is there for such a person? Without repentance, should they die, there is no hope. What we need to hope for is that our prayers will aid the person in question to repent, so they can become Children of God AUTHENTICALLY by being joined to his Church.

Only those who are BAPTIZED are Children of God, because only they have received the adoption of God. And among them, only those who persevere in the Truth will make it to heaven.

So, if a person dies trusting in their own goodness, outside the Church, they cannot be saved. How could they? What gospel will they hear untainted by heresy? How will they receive grace when they have rejected the opportunities to go to Church? How will they have their sins remitted if they are never justified, and how can they be justified without faith hope and Charity? And how can they have that unless we tell them they are in danger of Hell?

The Hindu religion is there for all to see, who will be saved who are not hindu? I would be careful not to be caught up in dry legalism.

Invincible ignorance is not undone by asserting truth. Man has the dignity of his own reason, and for one reason or other they are not seeing what you assert to be true. It does not aid them by threatening their wellbeing in regards to ones beliefs about heaven or hell.

All men are born into ignorance. Everyone. If you are given sight, it is only so you can give sight to others. If you fail, who is to blame; the blind man? God, first and foremost, Judges the hearts of men; not whether or not they were consistent with the legalities of the church, since the legalities of the church are for those who know that the church has the fullness of truth, and those who know the fullness of truth will be judged according to what they know and according to what is in their hearts.

A man can go to church take the body and blood of Christ and do all the legalisms that are required and still go to hell because Christ is not in their heart. Who does God favor; the ignorant atheist with a good heart, or the vein Christian who is concerned with all the legalisms of the faith but does not have the love of righteousness in their hearts?

I dare say that there are some who have the love of righteousnesses in their hearts but are nevertheless ignorant to the absolute truth. I can’t imagine that God would dispose of such a being.

I’m just saying, you should be careful of how you judge.

 

[tonyrey]

Exactly , it’s ultimately up to the individual’s decision in the end. We can also look how God will judge each one of our deeds and the rest is His doing on who is the sheep and who is the goat. I think that often to many times we are so concerned with how many is going to be in Hell or Heaven which is a good thing, but we should focus on how are lives are impacting those around us and be striving to save others so they can make to Heaven and not Hell. Let’s use the day that we have been gifted for good today for someone else to have a chance at Eternal Life:thumbsup:

:clapping: Being positive like the saints rather than negative and prophets of doom!

 

[tonyrey]

Indeed. Tell me though, how many fewer than the vast majority can deserve eternal punishment for this belief to flip from “absurd” to “true?”

It should be obvious that only God knows the answer to that question.

 

[tonyrey]

The Hindu religion is there for all to see, who will be saved who are not hindu? I would be careful not to be caught up in dry legalism.

Invincible ignorance is not undone by asserting truth. Man has the dignity of his own reason, and for one reason or other they are not seeing what you assert to be true. It does not aid them by threatening their wellbeing in regards to ones beliefs about heaven or hell.

All men or born into ignorance. Everyone. If you are given sight, it is only so you can give sight to others. If you fail, who is to blame; the blind man? God, first and foremost, Judges the hearts of men; not whether or not they were consistent with the legalities of the church, since the legalities of the church are for those who know that the church has the fullness of truth, and those who know the fullness of truth will be judged according to what they know and according to what is in their hearts.

A man can go to church take the body and blood of Christ and do all the legalisms that are required and still go to hell because Christ is not in their heart. Who does God favor; the ignorant atheist with a good heart, or the vein Christian who is concerned with all the legalisms of the faith but does not have the love of righteousness in their hearts?

I dare say that there are some who have the love of righteousnesses in their hearts but are nevertheless ignorant to the absolute truth. I can’t imagine that God would dispose of such a being.

I’m just saying, you should be careful of how you judge.

:clapping: Otherwise we are like the Pharisees…

 

[tonyrey]

I’ve read those quotes and think about this often. While I don’t know/wish/want anyone in Hell for sure, I’d like to think that the number of souls there is zero.

But say that quotes attributed to how few are saved and such, it can make some sense. Look at how some can come to such a conclusion:

• Say that Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is true, this would whittle down the number greatly.
• I don’t want to judge or assume, but my friends, our confessional is empty. I attend a huge parish. When I go to confession it lasts an hour. There may be 4 or 5 people the entire hour. But when it’s time to receive the Eucharist, I see nobody asking for a blessing if they haven’t been to confession. Everyone is receiving the Eucharist. Again I don’t want to judge or assume but 4 or 5 people in a major parish like mine? Something tells me people receive the Eucharist while in mortal sin anyways.

It’s a slippery slope. I once heard Fr. Corapi saw in a conference, he said aim for Heaven. Always aim for it. If you come up short, then that’s what Purgatory is for

Those who believe the vast majority go to Hell forget there are three possibilities - and the one you mention seems the most likely!

 

[punisherthunder]

Those who believe the vast majority go to Hell forget there are three possibilities - and the one you mention seems the most likely!

Went to Mass this evening. Before it was a full hour for confession. Only 3-4 people showed up…including me.

But Mass was packed and EVERYONE received the Eucharist.

 

[tonyrey]

Went to Mass this evening. Before it was a full hour for confession. Only 3-4 people showed up…including me.

But Mass was packed and EVERYONE received the Eucharist.

What does that imply?

 

[PumpkinCookie]

I agree that it seems likely, given Roman Catholicism, that the vast majority of human beings are destined for eternal torment. However, I fail to see how this is “good news.” It seems like the worst news ever!

Missionary: You deserve eternal damnation just for being conceived. This is right and just. However, a tiny fraction of people will achieve the necessary criteria for salvation, which includes believing many unsubstantiated claims and logical impossibilities. God is so merciful to allow even these few to be saved. Good thing I just told you this, because now you have a shot at being one of the “few.” Isn’t this good news?

Sane, average human being:

And that, friends, is exactly how the message was received by the ancient world including the Jewish people. Of course, when the full weight of the empire got behind it, the reaction changed drastically!

Does it not strike anyone else as utterly vicious (if it weren’t so unbelievable)? Think of it! Every miscarriage: eternal hell. The majority of human beings born before the 20th century: eternal hell (died during or shortly after birth, no baptism). Every average sinner: eternal hell. What a message of doom and gloom, precisely the opposite of “good news.”

Here is a thought experiment: what if everyone were to go to hell? Would it still be “good news” since we had the intrinsic possibility of salvation even though no one actually achieved it? Would this life still be worth living if that were the case? Why or why not? If not, how many fewer people going to hell than “everyone” would make it OK? Why?

 

[Vico]

I agree that it seems likely, given Roman Catholicism, that the vast majority of human beings are destined for eternal torment. However, I fail to see how this is “good news.” It seems like the worst news ever!

Missionary: You deserve eternal damnation just for being conceived. This is right and just. However, a tiny fraction of people will achieve the necessary criteria for salvation, which includes believing many unsubstantiated claims and logical impossibilities. God is so merciful to allow even these few to be saved. Good thing I just told you this, because now you have a shot at being one of the “few.” Isn’t this good news?

Sane, average human being:

And that, friends, is exactly how the message was received by the ancient world including the Jewish people. Of course, when the full weight of the empire got behind it, the reaction changed drastically!

Does it not strike anyone else as utterly vicious (if it weren’t so unbelievable)? Think of it! Every miscarriage: eternal hell. The majority of human beings born before the 20th century: eternal hell (died during or shortly after birth, no baptism). Every average sinner: eternal hell. What a message of doom and gloom, precisely the opposite of “good news.”

Here is a thought experiment: what if everyone were to go to hell? Would it still be “good news” since we had the intrinsic possibility of salvation even though no one actually achieved it? Would this life still be worth living if that were the case? Why or why not? If not, how many fewer people going to hell than “everyone” would make it OK? Why?

However that is not what the missionary should properly teach, rather:

Eternal salvation is not natural for mankind (1), but is possible by supernatural gift which those with use of reason, may refuse. There are also reasons for prayerful hope that unbaptized infants may also be saved, rather than grounds for sure knowledge, for all has not been revealed. Although in an adult an act of love may suffice to obtain him sanctifying grace and so supply for the lack of Baptism, it is best to have the greatest assurance of salvation by being a member in full communion with the Church of Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church. Also greater merit, through the grace of God, and secondly through man’s collaboration, may be granted.

(1) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

[tonyrey]

I agree that it seems likely, given Roman Catholicism, that the vast majority of human beings are destined for eternal torment. However, I fail to see how this is “good news.” It seems like the worst news ever!

Missionary: You deserve eternal damnation just for being conceived. This is right and just. However, a tiny fraction of people will achieve the necessary criteria for salvation, which includes believing many unsubstantiated claims and logical impossibilities. God is so merciful to allow even these few to be saved. Good thing I just told you this, because now you have a shot at being one of the “few.” Isn’t this good news?

Sane, average human being:

And that, friends, is exactly how the message was received by the ancient world including the Jewish people. Of course, when the full weight of the empire got behind it, the reaction changed drastically!

Does it not strike anyone else as utterly vicious (if it weren’t so unbelievable)? Think of it! Every miscarriage: eternal hell. The majority of human beings born before the 20th century: eternal hell (died during or shortly after birth, no baptism). Every average sinner: eternal hell. What a message of doom and gloom, precisely the opposite of “good news.”

Here is a thought experiment: what if everyone were to go to hell? Would it still be “good news” since we had the intrinsic possibility of salvation even though no one actually achieved it? Would this life still be worth living if that were the case? Why or why not? If not, how many fewer people going to hell than “everyone” would make it OK? Why?

There are so many misconceptions in your post it is impossible to know where to begin. Suffice it to say that not one of your false allegations is substantiated.

 

[tonyrey]

Went to Mass this evening. Before it was a full hour for confession. Only 3-4 people showed up…including me.

It doesn’t seem to imply anything!