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benedictus2
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Jesus is the Head of the Church, the Catholic Church is the Body
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rev_kevin
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Do not ever judge my belief in our Father Please. I donāt question your faith as a Catholic. You have no idea how strong my faith is and just because I donāt see it the Catholic way donāt meand its not right and if you were taught the Catholic way so be it. But I donāt believe your Catholic church or any church except Jesus who is the true church can claim that they are the one and true church. Sounds sorta stuck up to me but keep on believing what your church tell you to think, say, and do. They donāt want you to have a mind of your own. They donāt want you to because you might see things in a clear light or in a way that they donāt want you to see. But at least I have a mindset to think on my own and not just think the way some church tells you to think.Naaah. You are very wrong there.
Jesus said You are Kepha, and upon this kepha I will build my Church.
Translated into English, it goes: Simonā¦, you are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church.
The rock here is Peter, that is why in John and in Paulās writings he is called Cephas which is the Aramaic for rock.
Learn to read the Bible properly. Allow it to speak for itself rather that putting your own spin into its mouth.
Excuse me??? Iām glad to see you can use words in a different language which proves nothing but you can do it. Big deal. Now about the learn to read the Bible properly. I have as a matter of fact. It might not be what you have been told to believe and say by the Catholic faith but yourās isnāt the only way to look at it its just the Catholic way of thinking. See I was right someone will say something about what I said. and you were the one. congradulations.
Now Matthew 16:18 says this, āNow I say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build āmy church,ā and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.ā It could mean, Jesus himself is the church through his work of salvation by dying for us on the cross.
It could mean Peter, the first great leader in the church at Jerusalem
It could mean The confession of faith that Peter gave and that all subsquent true believers would give.
All are joined into this church by faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.
However, I think you are right, one does not go to hell because he is not in the Catholic Church. However if you are saved, you will belong to the Catholic Church and if you end up in hell that is because you are outside of the Catholic Church.
Sounds nothing like what Jesus says. āBeleive in ME and you will have eternal life.ā
It donāt say beleive in the CATHOLIC CHURCH and you will have eternal life. Read your Bible.
Nope. As I said above, read the Bible. Even just the entire chapter 16 of Matthew. Nowhere in there does Jesus says he is the church.
Why stick with Matthew alone. Read and look around the Bible and you will be suprised what you see like:
Ephesians 1:22-23. āAnd God has put all things under the authority of Christ, and he gave him authority for the benefit of the church. And the church is his body; it is filled by Christ, who fills everything everywhere with his presence.ā
Colossians 1:18 says, āChrist is the head of the church, which is his body.ā
Well you will have to argue that with Christ. He established only one church. He did not establish a non-denom, or Lutheran or Baptist church. These all came 1500 years after Jesus established His Church at Pentecost.
Doing research I found that very early in post-apostalic times the church did aquire a proper name in order to distinquish it from break awayās that were already beginning to form. The name that the church acquired when it became necessary for it to have a proper name was named the Catholic church.
As mentioned in Acts, the follower of Christ were known as Christians. In the N.T. the church was simply called the church. In the early days there were not enough break aways substantial enough to have a name.
Yes, perfectly put. And it is because we believe in Him that we believe He is speaking the truth in Matthew 16. You on the other hand do not believe that truth so it is rather questionable whether you really believe in Him or just the convenient bits that jive with your own mindset.
I wonder if someone eles take the bait.
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Protestant101
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The Catholic Church is a part of the body, it is quite Biblically sound to look at a number of denominations, collectively, as THE Body, or the Church. The Bible uses the Word āoneā in itās collective sense in a number of ways; including āoneā God.Jesus is the Head of the Church, the Catholic Church is the Body
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elvisman
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WRONG.
Show me where Scripture speaks of denominations. It is not Biblically sound.
The 7 Churches spoken of at the beginning of the Book of Revelation were not denominations but regional branches of the ONE Church - dioceses if you will.
Thatās why six of them were admonished - because they should ALL have been practicing their faith in the same manner. Not like all of the splintered, bickering denominations we have today.
For examply - your denomination believes in soul-sleep, whereas most Protestants rejects this idea. This is a major issue - not a minor one.
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elvisman
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**You couldnāt **be more wrong if you tried.
The Church was given TOTAL Authority by Jesus Himself to decide ALL matters pertaining to His followers (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23)
Apparently, you reject the very Scriptures you claim to be the sole Authority.
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and** hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."**
2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us"
2 Tim. 2:2
"What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also".
1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".
1 Tim. 3:15
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
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rev_kevin
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I disagree with you
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rev_kevin
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If it good for the goose its good for the gander
Thats what is said about non-Catholics.
Thats what is said about non-Catholics.
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Protestant101
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Yes, you are correct that āsoul sleepā is a major issue; but one could question who it is that makes it an issue.
As far as your statement about denominations, you can call them what you want, but all the different believers in the world are collectively āthe Church.ā Many believers do not even belong to a ādenominationā of any kind. But collectively, we are all 'the Church." The Bible speaks of āone Churchā from āevery nation, kindred, tongue, and people.ā
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happilycatholic
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Enthusiasm is an āactionā not a reaction. Dear OP, you must be enthused from within, not from without.
God Bless,
HC
God Bless,
HC
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elvisman
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**Again - show me where Scripture speaks of denominations. It is not Biblically sound.Yes, you are correct that āsoul sleepā is a major issue; but one could question who it is that makes it an issue.
As far as your statement about denominations, you can call them what you want, but all the different believers in the world are collectively āthe Church.ā Many believers do not even belong to a ādenominationā of any kind. But collectively, we are all 'the Church." The Bible speaks of āone Churchā from āevery nation, kindred, tongue, and people.ā
So-called "believers" who who espouse Christianity apart from the Church are detached from the Body of Christ.
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elvisman
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happilycatholic
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What will matter in the end is which āchurchā has taught the [T]ruth in its fullness. The catholic Church is the only church that even claims to have a Deposit of Faith from which to draw the fullness of Truth.Yes, you are correct that āsoul sleepā is a major issue; but one could question who it is that makes it an issue.
As far as your statement about denominations, you can call them what you want, but all the different believers in the world are collectively āthe Church.ā Many believers do not even belong to a ādenominationā of any kind. But collectively, we are all 'the Church." The Bible speaks of āone Churchā from āevery nation, kindred, tongue, and people.ā
God Bless,
HC
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rev_kevin
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So because I donāt follow what the Catholic church says Iām not a follower of Christ. Re-read the Scripture and show me where it says you have to be a Catholic to follow Him.
The true church is Jesus Christ himself.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 āWith all these things in mind.{now you need to read from 13 to 15 inorder to understand or get what they need to keep in mind} dear brothers and sisters, stand frim and keep a strong grip on everything we taught you both in person and by letter.ā
Here Paul consis tently taught that salvation begins and ends with God. We cannot be saved on our own merit, we must accept Godās gift of salvation.
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2 Thessalonians 3:6 āAnd now, dear brothers and sisterss, we give you this command with the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from and Christian who lives in idleness and doesnāt follow the tradition of hard work wh gave you.ā
Here Paul is writing about the person who is lazy Paul explains that when he and his companions were in Thessalonia, they worked hard. buying what they needed rather than becoming a burden to any of the believers.
2 Timothy 2;2 āYou have heard me teach many things that have been confirmed by many reliable witnesses. Teach these great truths to trustworthy people who are able to pass them on to others.ā
If the church were to sonsistently follow this advice, it would expand geometrically as well taught believers would teach others and comission them, in turn, to teach still others. Disciples need to be equipped to pass on their faith, our work is not done until new believers are able to make disciples of others.
1 Corinthians 11:2 "I am glad, dear friend. that you always keep me in your thoughts and you are following the Christian teaching I passed on to you.
In this section Paulās main concern is irreverence in worship. You need to read it in context of the siruatuon in Corinth. The matter of wearing hats or head coverings, although seemingly insignifiacnt, had become a big problem becuase 2 cultural backgrounds wer coliding. Jewish women always cobered their heads in worship. Greek women may have been used to worshiping without head coverings.
1 Timothy 3:15 "so that if I canāt come for a while, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the house of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and support of the truth.
I donāt understand what this has to do with our discussion.
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rev_kevin
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No I disagree with the ways of the Catholic teaching of the Scripture, not Scripture itself
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Protestant101
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It also describes other Churchesā¦
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Protestant101
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Well, all Christians have the Bible available to them. The Bible is the ādepositā of faith.
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elvisman
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No - I supplied you with the Scriptures that prove the Catholic position.
Like I asked before - can you elaborate?
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Protestant101
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They donāt āproveā the Catholic position - this is merely what you have been spoon-fed with by apologetics gurus in your denomination to say. The Bible itself does not interpret these texts the way Catholics are** told** to
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elvisman
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Then, enlighten me.
In Matt, 16:18-15, Jesus calls Simon, KEPHA and that on this KEPHA he would build his Church. He goes on to give him the keys to the Kingdom and the power to forgive sins or hold them bound on Heaven and earth.
How do you interpret this?
What does Matt. 18:15-18 mean, if not Authority of the Church?
Here, he gives the Apostles the power to forgive sins or hold them bound on Heaven and earth.
In John 16:12-15, Jesus spoke ONLY to the Apostles - not to his disciples in general.
How do you interpret this?
In John 20:21-23, he appeared to the Apostles and gave them the power to forgive or retain sins - again - in heaven and on earth.
How do you interpret this?
ALL of these things were understood by the Early Church in the SAME way they are now but the grown up Church.
Acts 1:20-26 PROVES that this was to be passed onto their successors.
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rev_kevin
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And I gave you what they meant in post 258 which are my positions about the Scriptures you claim to prove the Catholic postion. Why canāt you give me what they mean to the Catholics or were you told that they are the Catholic position without explaination. Just because you say that I gave you Scripture that proves the Catholic postion donāt prove anything, I can give you, and I have, the same Scriptures that say they prove my position. Just because you are Catholic donāt mean you are right. You can say your is the one and true religion but the Bible donāt say that. You canāt prove without a reasonable doubt that the Bible means Catholic. The Bible says the church is Jesus and he is the head of the church. It donāt say the Catholic church. it says the Church only.
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