Will Pope Francis Invite Lutherans into an Ordinariate?

[Tomster]

I do not see a Lutheran Ordinariate anytime soon.

Why not?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Why not?

Because most Lutheran synods have already burnt the bridge across the Tiber with no reserve in doing so. ELCA is a wonderful example of such. It could be simply my location. Here in Fargo, Lutherans try their very best to non Catholic. They even did away with the sign of the cross because it was “a Catholic thing” and they wish to place their church apart from Rome.

Besides, many on this forum stated they would join RCIA when the EO and RCC have a reunion. That is probably far more easier than creating a Lutheran Ordinariate.

 

[Tomster]

Because most Lutheran synods have already burnt the bridge across the Tiber with no reserve in doing so. ELCA is a wonderful example of such. It could be simply my location. Here in Fargo, Lutherans try their very best to non Catholic. They even did away with the sign of the cross because it was “a Catholic thing” and they wish to place their church apart from Rome.

Besides, many on this forum stated they would join RCIA when the EO and RCC have a reunion. That is probably far more easier than creating a Lutheran Ordinariate.

But that really doesn’t square with what Martin Luther said in his letter to Pope Leo in 1519 as I quoted on another thread today.

Martin Luther said: “That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted.”

Why all the bridge burning?

 

[GKC]

Sonny and Cher wasn’t it? la-de-da-da-dee! la-de-da-da-da.

Couldn’t resist.

Ah-hem! I digress. Continue with the discussion my peeps.

Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain … La de da de de, consubstantiation.

GKC, digressor

 

[Tomster]

Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain … La de da de de, consubstantiation.

GKC, digressor

Is the grocery store really a supermart even though or in spite of cars keep going faster all the time?

Weighty issues to say the least.

All right, I’ll knock it off voluntarily.

Where were we?

 

[GKC]

Is the grocery store really a supermart even though or in spite of cars keep going faster all the time?

Weighty issues to say the least.

Or, as Chesterton once observed, is a rabbit faster than a triangle is pink.

GKC

 

[Tomster]

Or, as Chesterton once observed, is a rabbit faster than a triangle is pink.

GKC

“Jocularity, jocularity.” Fr. Francis X. Mulcahy - MASH

“Where are we in this discussion, please?” Sister Jean Rapheal - 5th grade English class.

I’m all over the place today. Need some lunch.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Why all the bridge burning?

I guess they like to swim? lol I haven’t a clue why. Maybe have Ben or Jon give an answer

 

[crazzeto]

The problem, in part, is which Lutherans? It cannot be many of the LWF synods, such as the ELCA, because of the ELCA’s compromising of the ministerial priesthood, first by ordaining women, then at the Churchwide assembly in 2011.

And the LCMS and ILC are not yet ready for such a move.

Jon

Is the problem any greater than what it was in Anglicanism? As I understand it, Anglicanorum Coetibus allows for integration on a church by church basis. I assume the reason for this is with what major communion within Anglicaism can we really say we don’t encounter the same problems.

As such, I believe and I hope the same thing might be possible with the Lutherans. Establish the ordinate, get a Bishop and some Lutheran converts in place to lead, and allow churches individually who wish to accept communion with Rome and all that means to come in.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Because most Lutheran synods have already burnt the bridge across the Tiber with no reserve in doing so. ELCA is a wonderful example of such. It could be simply my location. Here in Fargo, Lutherans try their very best to non Catholic. They even did away with the sign of the cross because it was “a Catholic thing” and they wish to place their church apart from Rome.

Besides, many on this forum stated they would join RCIA when the EO and RCC have a reunion. That is probably far more easier than creating a Lutheran Ordinariate.

Keep in mind that the pope excommunicated Luther. Lutherans maintain that we are the one holy catholic and apostolic church reformed. The “bridge” was burnt on the inside to deny Lutherans entry into the See of St Peter.

Historically, Protestants have influenced Lutherans in America. It is interesting that the first Lutheran churches in America look very ‘catholic’ [statues, high altar] but the reception by Protestants other than Episcopalians was to condemn Lutherans as “too catholic”. It is a complicated history of Lutherans trying to fit in to a new country.

I never heard of a Lutheran parish that has done away with the sign of the cross. It is required to mark the infant with the sign of the holy cross at baptism, at the consecration of the eucharist, etc.

But like all symbols and rituals, Lutherans have considerable freedom to express the faith. I may not like rock bands, gospel songs and casual worship found in some Lutheran parishes but I don’t condemn them for their worship.

 

[JillianRose]

I visited our Local ELMS and they were very Catholic. Statues, kneeling to receive communion, the pastors robes looked exactly what Opus Dei priests wear..

 

[aidanbradypop]

Keep in mind that the pope excommunicated Luther. Lutherans maintain that we are the one holy catholic and apostolic church reformed. The “bridge” was burnt on the inside to deny Lutherans entry into the See of St Peter.

Historically, Protestants have influenced Lutherans in America. It is interesting that the first Lutheran churches in America look very ‘catholic’ [statues, high altar] but the reception by Protestants other than Episcopalians was to condemn Lutherans as “too catholic”. It is a complicated history of Lutherans trying to fit in to a new country.

I never heard of a Lutheran parish that has done away with the sign of the cross. It is required to mark the infant with the sign of the holy cross at baptism, at the consecration of the eucharist, etc.

But like all symbols and rituals, Lutherans have considerable freedom to express the faith. I may not like rock bands, gospel songs and casual worship found in some Lutheran parishes but I don’t condemn them for their worship.

I know he was excommunicated. Keep in mind the reason such a thing came about. But that is for another thread.

The local LCMC congregation here actually does not wear robes nor do they do the sign of the cross after prayer…etc. Like I stated earlier, it could simply be the region where I live. I never met a Lutheran until I moved to the Midwest. I wish the Lutherans here acted like Ben, Jon and the many others. I probably would have more friends here in Fargo.

We should never condemn anyone. We should only condemn doctrines that go against that of the Church of Christ on earth.

 

[JillianRose]

Keep in mind that the pope excommunicated Luther. Lutherans maintain that we are the one holy catholic and apostolic church reformed. The “bridge” was burnt on the inside to deny Lutherans entry into the See of St Peter.

Historically, Protestants have influenced Lutherans in America. It is interesting that the first Lutheran churches in America look very ‘catholic’ [statues, high altar] but the reception by Protestants other than Episcopalians was to condemn Lutherans as “too catholic”. It is a complicated history of Lutherans trying to fit in to a new country.

I never heard of a Lutheran parish that has done away with the sign of the cross. It is required to mark the infant with the sign of the holy cross at baptism, at the consecration of the eucharist, etc.

But like all symbols and rituals, Lutherans have considerable freedom to express the faith. I may not like rock bands, gospel songs and casual worship found in some Lutheran parishes but I don’t condemn them for their worship.

Our Catholic Church has a “children’s Mass” on Sundays that reminds me of my old Calvinist Church. They have a “band”, and sing gospel and Christian music from popular Christian artists. It looses it “Mass” feeling. I rather stick to my good Traditional Mass. Me and my husband feel that if we take our children to the “praise and worship” mass, that will confuse the kids since MOST Catholic Churches do not do that.

 

[JonNC]

Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain … La de da de de, consubstantiation.

GKC, digressor

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=aidanbradypop;10665918]Because most Lutheran synods have already burnt the bridge across the Tiber with no reserve in doing so. ELCA is a wonderful example of such. It could be simply my location. Here in Fargo, Lutherans try their very best to non Catholic. They even did away with the sign of the cross because it was “a Catholic thing” and they wish to place their church apart from Rome.

Curious this. My personal experience is a rising tide of return to making the sign of the cross across American Lutheranism. A couple of years ago, I went to my daughter’s commencement as a upper mid-west Lutheran College. the event was held in their rather spacious gym - I’d guess about 3,000 in attendance. The first words were the invocation, upon which a sea of arms making the sign of the cross.

Besides, many on this forum stated they would join RCIA when the EO and RCC have a reunion. That is probably far more easier than creating a Lutheran Ordinariate.

Really? You think after a thousand years unity between the EO and CC would be far easier than a Lutheran ordinariate? I’d love to see a Lutheran ordinariate, see what it would look like, etc.

Jon

 

[aidanbradypop]

Curious this. My personal experience is a rising tide of return to making the sign of the cross across American Lutheranism. A couple of years ago, I went to my daughter’s commencement as a upper mid-west Lutheran College. the event was held in their rather spacious gym - I’d guess about 3,000 in attendance. The first words were the invocation, upon which a sea of arms making the sign of the cross.

There are 3 LCMS congregations here. They do the sign of the cross. I was listening to a conversation between an ELCA pastor and a member. The member asked why so many are dropping the kneeling and sign of the cross. Pastor. … “Because it is too Catholic”

Really? You think after a thousand years unity between the EO and CC would be far easier than a Lutheran ordinariate? I’d love to see a Lutheran ordinariate, see what it would look like, etc.

Jon

I believe it would be far easier as far doctrinal issues are concerned

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Our Catholic Church has a “children’s Mass” on Sundays that reminds me of my old Calvinist Church. They have a “band”, and sing gospel and Christian music from popular Christian artists. It looses it “Mass” feeling. I rather stick to my good Traditional Mass. Me and my husband feel that if we take our children to the “praise and worship” mass, that will confuse the kids since MOST Catholic Churches do not do that.

Agree. I love varieties of worship styles especially since it is important to the youth; including inner city parishes that praise Jesus spontaneously. The movement of the mass is quite intriquing.

As a child I was exposed to a strongly catholic expression of the faith and assumed such for the rest of Lutheranism. The identity crisis for Lutherans is challenged by embracing many Christian bodies including Presbyterians. The bare bones of the Church is believing the ecumenical creeds.

 

[benjohnson]

Curious this. My personal experience is a rising tide of return to making the sign of the cross across American Lutheranism.

I see this too!

In my church, in the space of two years, we’ve gone from a few people doing furtive signs of the cross, to just about everybody doing it.

Our associate pastor is getting a collection of chasubles in all the liturgical colors, and the our pastor is almost doing a complete elevation of the body and blood.

We don’t just borrow from Catholics - I had to smile at my friends Catholic Mass when I saw they adopted our “And with your spirit”… We’ll… it’s supposed to be “And with thy Spirit” according to the Lutheran Common Service of 1888

If Catholics take back our alter-rails, and we take back back their confessionals, I’ll be really happy.

 

[benjohnson]

I believe it would be far easier as far doctrinal issues are concerned

From a Lutheran perspective, as I understand it, we share a lot of commonality with the EO as far as dogma. Though I can’t say I’m sure they feel the same about us.

 

[pablope]

Keep in mind that the pope excommunicated Luther. Lutherans maintain that we are the one holy catholic and apostolic church reformed.

What exactly has Luther reformed that the CC did not reform at Trent?

The “bridge” was burnt on the inside to deny Lutherans entry into the See of St Peter.