Will the Catholic Church recognize the Antichrist?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mikekle
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Lily_Bernans said:
That’s true. Rome is just one of them. The FP and the AC are not going to make it easy for us to recognize who they are. Not even our highest clergy will have clarity on the matter. That is the nature of the whole thing.

Most of the theologians at the school where I teach, and most I’ve corresponded with, believe that a schism will occur within the Roman Catholic Church due to the AC and that many, if not most believers will follow the AC. He will be someone no one would ever suspect except the small remnant that will be left at the end of the apocalypse.

(Wikipedia is really not a good source for theology since anyone can write anything there, but in this case, yes, some other cities are said to be built on seven hills. I’d never heard of that many before, though.)
Click to expand...
I think it is likely that there will be a great schism. In the book (novel) that I mentioned previously, nobody recognized the anti-Christ as the anti-Christ, rather the vast majority of people including Catholics saw him as a great and unifying and peaceful and beneficial figure. They even agreed with him when he said that it was necessary for the peace of the world that the Church be destroyed. And he created his own secular religion, and made the practice of it mandatory.

As I said, both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have said that the book is prophetic.
 
JimG said:
I think it is likely that there will be a great schism. In the book (novel) that I mentioned previously, nobody recognized the anti-Christ as the anti-Christ, rather the vast majority of people including Catholics saw him as a great and unifying and peaceful and beneficial figure. They even agreed with him when he said that it was necessary for the peace of the world that the Church be destroyed. And he created his own secular religion, and made the practice of it mandatory.

As I said, both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have said that the book is prophetic.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, Jim, and what you wrote follows what Bishop Sheen has written as well (and he certainly knew more than I know!)

I don’t believe the Church will be entirely destroyed, though, if that is what you meant, and I realize it might not be. I do think the AC will want to destroy it and try to destroy it. I believe the “small remnant” will still follow the true Church and Christ will be with that Church.
 
I believe that the Antichrist is one particular human person, who will be born in the distant future. He wishes to be worshiped as if he were God. He does not wish to be Pope, and he is never the Pope. He hates the Catholic Church, because he hates Christ and all true religion.

It is said that he will appeal to the world, as if he were its savior and as if he were a person of peace. But this in no way implies that the Church or the faithful will be fooled by him. He must necessarily deny that Jesus is the Messiah, since he wishes to present himself as the only Messiah. So the faithful will not be fooled by him.
 
I think everyone here should read the referenced paragraphs in the Catechism (the actual teaching) in paragraphs 675 and 676, rather than all this Protestant-sounding speculation. Also read I John2:18 & 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7, the only place in the Bible where the word antichrist is used.

Why aren’t people heeding what both the Bible and the Catechism have to say about the Antichrist? We are now in a period of deception and pseudo-messianism and it’s getting worse. But how many people recognize it? I do not claim to know when the actual events of the final days will occur, but I know there is great deception out there among God’s people, and we need to recognize it.

I don’t rely on private visions and prophecies and revelations, Protestant or Catholic. I think the Church in her 2000 years of wisdom has nailed it. It is a system of religious deception where man places himself above God and makes himself the Messiah.
 
Which one? There have already been several.[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
 
mikekle said:
Ive wondered about this before, but I got drawn into a conversation with someone earlier today about this, not even sure how it came up, the other person is not a catholic and does not attend any church.

Her belief is that the CC and probably every other denomination will not recognize the AC for who he truly is when he comes unto the world scene, as its said ‘he’ will appear to be a person of peace, who accomplishes great things, that look to be Godly and for the general good of everyone.

Personally, I think the CC will be the very first church to call it out, granted, I think the rest of the world will be calling the CC crazy at doing this, they will say “look at all this man has done, how can you call him the AC”? IDK, maybe this is the time Jesus warned about, when lots of people started hating the church. If the Vatican made an announcement like that, especially if the secular world was LOVING this person, it would be very bad for the CCs image.

Im not sure of the specifics, but Id say the Vatican is prepared for this event in one way or another, Im sure they have certain people keeping an eye on world events, watching for any one person that would fit the extremely detailed description of the AC.
Click to expand...
On the day that Christ comes in the fullness of His glory we will all know who and what the anti-Christ is and we will know whose side we are on.
 
CB_Catholic said:
I think everyone here should read the referenced paragraphs in the Catechism (the actual teaching) in paragraphs 675 and 676, rather than all this Protestant-sounding speculation. Also read I John2:18 & 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7, the only place in the Bible where the word antichrist is used.

Why aren’t people heeding what both the Bible and the Catechism have to say about the Antichrist? We are now in a period of deception and pseudo-messianism and it’s getting worse. But how many people recognize it? I do not claim to know when the actual events of the final days will occur, but I know there is great deception out there among God’s people, and we need to recognize it.

I don’t rely on private visions and prophecies and revelations, Protestant or Catholic. I think the Church in her 2000 years of wisdom has nailed it. It is a system of religious deception where man places himself above God and makes himself the Messiah.
Click to expand...
People have quoted the Catechism here, and Revelation is open to much interpretation. The great theologians of the Church, including the Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, St. JP II, and Benedict XVI have all said the AC will be a person, and he will be preceded by the FP, another person, sort of like Christ was preceded by John the Baptist.

Many, many who believe will be led astray, within the Church and without. The more we think we will be able to recognize the AC, the more likely we are to be led astray.

We are living in the final days right now. They began when Christ ascended into heaven. How long they will last, no one knows. Christ did not even know when he was here on earth.

I do not follow private revelations, either. The theologians I spoke of had no revelations. They gained their knowledge from study of the Holy Scripture.
 
So how do any of us know we will be saved…it’s only the very elect who won’t be led astray…how can any one know with 100% certainty they won’t…I think it would be a very foolish person who can claim they are one of the elect…even those who live good Christian lives may fall under the spell of the antichrist…it just seems to simplistic to say oh well to bad…you should have believed as much as I do…is God going to condemn someone to eternal punishment just because they were deceived yet still honestly believe they are following him…surely there must be something that will happen that will make them do a complete turn away from God to cause God to reject them…I’m not denying what scripture says…I just think there is more to it than just making a blanket statement…is there some theological explanation that expands on this
 
Peebo said:
So how do any of us know we will be saved…it’s only the very elect who won’t be led astray…how can any one know with 100% certainty they won’t…I think it would be a very foolish person who can claim they are one of the elect…even those who live good Christian lives may fall under the spell of the antichrist…it just seems to simplistic to say oh well to bad…you should have believed as much as I do…is God going to condemn someone to eternal punishment just because they were deceived yet still honestly believe they are following him…surely there must be something that will happen that will make them do a complete turn away from God to cause God to reject them…I’m not denying what scripture says…I just think there is more to it than just making a blanket statement…is there some theological explanation that expands on this
Click to expand...
Peebo, I don’t think anyone will know with absolute certainty if they are among the elect or not until the resurrection of the dead. I, too, think it would be foolish to make the claim that one is among the elect. I certainly try to follow every Church law and teaching, I love Christ more than anything in life, I get up at three in the morning to pray, I pray at noon, and again in the evening. I go to daily Mass when I can. I am professor of RC theology, so my entire life is occupied with Christ. I am not married, I have only Christ in my life by choice. However, even given that, I would never make the claim that I am one of the elect. I hope to be, I try to be, but I do not know. If the FP or the AC were around now, I would hope I would recognize him, but I am not foolish enough to say I would.

I do not really worry about it, though. I would not worry if I were you. Your heart and soul are in the right place, centered on God. You are humble. See Christ in the face of everyone else, even your enemies, if you have any, you seem pretty likable to me, and have faith in God. I am a professor of Christology, not a biblical scholar, but I can ask a biblical scholar the next time I see her. She has been a PhD for about 20 years, so she is way ahead of me on that score! I’m still working on my PhD dissertation!

God bless, Peebo. I am not the judge, but you seem on the right track to me.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Peebo, I don’t think anyone will know with absolute certainty if they are among the elect or not until the resurrection of the dead. I, too, think it would be foolish to make the claim that one is among the elect. I certainly try to follow every Church law and teaching, I love Christ more than anything in life, I get up at three in the morning to pray, I pray at noon, and again in the evening. I go to daily Mass when I can. I am professor of RC theology, so my entire life is occupied with Christ. I am not married, I have only Christ in my life by choice. However, even given that, I would never make the claim that I am one of the elect. I hope to be, I try to be, but I do not know. If the FP or the AC were around now, I would hope I would recognize him, but I am not foolish enough to say I would.

I do not really worry about it, though. I would not worry if I were you. Your heart and soul are in the right place, centered on God. You are humble. See Christ in the face of everyone else, even your enemies, if you have any, you seem pretty likable to me, and have faith in God. I am a professor of Christology, not a biblical scholar, but I can ask a biblical scholar the next time I see her. She has been a PhD for about 20 years, so she is way ahead of me on that score! I’m still working on my PhD dissertation!

God bless, Peebo. I am not the judge, but you seem on the right track to me.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind remarks…I admire your commitment to your prayer life…hopefully that will inspire me to be more focused on setting more prayer time aside for God…so thank you…I would appreciate it if you could find out if there is a theological explanation as to how even Christians will be deceived…I know the anti christ will be able to perform miracles so as to deceive even believers…but how that translates into such a grave sin that God will reject them for all eternity because of that deception…it seems like there is no mercy for those who may be innocently deceived…but I don’t believe God would judge them for that reason alone…the only thing I can think of is that even those deceived will know they are being deceived but still choose to reject the one true God and for some reason still prefer to follow the ant christ knowing full well the consequences for turning away from God…God bless

PS…I guess even now there are Christians who are knowingly rejecting Gods laws and don’t consider them sins…ie…homosexuality…abortion…open sexuality …adultery…gay marriage…to name a few…so maybe I’m partly answering my own question
 
CB_Catholic said:
I think everyone here should read the referenced paragraphs in the Catechism (the actual teaching) in paragraphs 675 and 676, rather than all this Protestant-sounding speculation. Also read I John2:18 & 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7, the only place in the Bible where the word antichrist is used.

Why aren’t people heeding what both the Bible and the Catechism have to say about the Antichrist? We are now in a period of deception and pseudo-messianism and it’s getting worse. But how many people recognize it? I do not claim to know when the actual events of the final days will occur, but I know there is great deception out there among God’s people, and we need to recognize it.

I don’t rely on private visions and prophecies and revelations, Protestant or Catholic. I think the Church in her 2000 years of wisdom has nailed it. It is a system of religious deception where man places himself above God and makes himself the Messiah.
Click to expand...
The more I think about it, the more I think a great majority of us WILL be fooled by the AC, just look at the debate on here about him now, and this is BEFORE significant events mentioned in the bible, point is, if people are taking sides right now, it will be that much worse when the REAL deal comes.

Plus, if its true that the AC will come from the CC, well, then, we are in for much more controversy/ trouble, I cannot EVER see a time when the Vatican would publicly admit the AC is within their ranks, attendance would drop to nothing after such an announcement, I think this will be done over a long period as well, it its done right and methodically enough, it will virtually ensure most people will be tricked.

I have seen and read many things online where many seem to think our current Pope is the AC, Im about 99.9% positive he is definitely not, but then again, if the idea is to systematically trick as many as possible, hey, anything is possible then, just the fact that Satan is much more intelligent than any of us proves that he will use his best ‘tricks’ when it comes to the AC…I just hope and pray God grants me the ‘eyes’ to recognize him.
 
Peebo said:
Thank you for your kind remarks…I admire your commitment to your prayer life…hopefully that will inspire me to be more focused on setting more prayer time aside for God…so thank you…I would appreciate it if you could find out if there is a theological explanation as to how even Christians will be deceived…I know the anti christ will be able to perform miracles so as to deceive even believers…but how that translates into such a grave sin that God will reject them for all eternity because of that deception…it seems like there is no mercy for those who may be innocently deceived…but I don’t believe God would judge them for that reason alone…the only thing I can think of is that even those deceived will know they are being deceived but still choose to reject the one true God and for some reason still prefer to follow the ant christ knowing full well the consequences for turning away from God…God bless

PS…I guess even now there are Christians who are knowingly rejecting Gods laws and don’t consider them sins…ie…homosexuality…abortion…open sexuality …adultery…gay marriage…to name a few…so maybe I’m partly answering my own question
Click to expand...
I will ask, Peebo, but I don’t see her every day, so it may take a week to ten days. I will post here after I talk with her. She teaches New Testament Studies at the college where I teach. She is far above me, though, having been a PhD for more than twenty years now. In fact, she was my instructor of New Testament Studies when I got my Master’s.

Personally, I think prayer bonds us to God. It certainly deepens our relationship with Christ. I will be thinking of you and I hope you can manage to find some extra time for prayer or even prayerful reading of the Scriptures. I think you’re on the right track, though. 👍
 
Just out of curiosity,
is there anyone here who voted
one way at the start
but after reading more of this thread
has changed the way you think
about the OP’s question?

(I voted no and vote the same now)
:tiphat:
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I voted no and I still think no.
Click to expand...
After having read through the entire thread again, I think I agree with everything you have written. I think it’s likely the AC will fool nearly everyone. I suspect that the only ones to be immune will be those steeped in prayer and having a childlike faith, no matter their degree of learning or lack of learning. I think the anti-Christ will be nearly universally accepted as a great and beneficial figure. His evil intentions may not even become fully apparent until the general acceptance, and by then, no one will question his actions.

I can’t really say that the Church will not recognize the anti-Christ, but the Church which remains and rejects him will be a remnant. The whole scenario is pretty scary and inspires me to take up the prayer of St. Michael.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top