Wishing to be Protestant again...

[Church_Militant]

It means born into a Catholic family and baptized as a baby.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[rinnie]

Protestant 101,

**You wrote: ** *Yes; of course Jerry, Adventists always have “tactics” up their sleeves don’t they? LOL, be sure and warn everyone in those big red letters that others have used!

I was well aware of the meaning of your “new” word above, and I still think it’s funny. Sometimes, people like to just use bigger words that are not used in the average daily vocabulary, to add emphasis to their point. Then, it doesn’t sound so much like an accusation.

I am sure that we can all pat ourselves on the back saying how much “better” our Church is than some other denomination; but I am thankful I don’t have to run around worrying about it. I know Jesus cares; and “I love the Lord because He hath heard my voice.” (Ps 116:1). There’s not too much you can do to shake that, so keep up with all those vociferous darts and malignant barbs! Other Christians coming to this forum will follow your example; I am sure, but Jesus loves you anyways. *​

Enough of this nattering about using the word, “persiflage”! If good words exist, I use them; you choose not to use some, apparently to stick a more “basic vocabulary”. That is a matter of preference. I tend to be as precise (having been a professional librarian for most of my working life may account for some of that!) as I can be with words, which is why sometimes a somewhat less-used word will show in what I write. I also like precision in thought, religious discourse and reasoning included, with a much lower emphasis on emotion. That’s a matter of temperament.

Then, like you, I am Canadian (naturalised 1980) and have been for now a bit more than half of my life. That contributes to all the other reasons that make me distrust religious groups which have their origin in the U. S. of A., a breeding ground of all too many of them, including Adventists of all stripes – even David Koresh and the Branch Davidians had their Adventist connexion – or the Mormons, and, coming from a L.D.S. Mormon background (on my mother’s side) I have all the greater distrust of the sects and cults, American or otherwise. I also have more respect for genuine Protestantism than many Catholics have.

Despite believing that the only true churches are the Holy Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church (Eastern and Western rites), I firmly believe that if a person cannot be a Christian as Catholic or Orthodox, then it is better for him to be Protestant (Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian/Reformed, Moravian) or even a sectary (Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Campbellite, Adventist, etc.) than to be an unbeliever. Lord knows, the Catholic Church has scandalised many folk, as the long-entrenched abuse of power has done here in Québec. If such people feel that strong a disconnect from (and distrust of) Catholicism, it is better for them to be right with the Lord as Protestants or sectaries (but not as cultists) than to be unbelievers. That does not mean, however, that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are on the same spiritual plain as the Protestant denominations and the sects! Faith in Christ, nonetheless, is primary, but the Catholic Church is the true home of all Christians, if they but knew that, and if Catholics, for their part (but without compromise), would do their part to make the Church purer, more hospitable, and more appealing.

Pax, Jerry Parker

I agree with you Jerry. We can only use the Grace that is given to us from God. And no matter what it is, we must still Love one another and be the best we can be with the grace we were given.

And the main goal we are all here is to explain what our faith really is, not what people have been told it was.

Then we did our part, we told the truth the best we could. After that all a person can do is see what we said, study on their own and open up their minds. And if being a member of the CC is meant to be, it will happen.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** *I agree with you… We can only use the Grace that is given to us from God. And no matter what it is, we must still Love one another and be the best we can be with the grace we were given.

And the main goal we are all here is to explain what our faith really is, not what people have been told it was.

Then we did our part, we told the truth the best we could. After that all a person can do is see what we said, study on their own and open up their minds. And if being a member of the CC is meant to be, it will happen.*​

You are right, Rinnie. Only the Holy Ghost can convert, as the New Testament makes clear. Protestant (as an Adventist, a sectary rather than a genuine Protestant) 101 already believes in the Christian faith, albeit not so perfectly as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach it. If God draw him to become Catholic, it will be by the Holy Ghost confirming His Word within his heart, mind, and soul.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** *I agree with you… We can only use the Grace that is given to us from God. And no matter what it is, we must still Love one another and be the best we can be with the grace we were given.

And the main goal we are all here is to explain what our faith really is, not what people have been told it was.

Then we did our part, we told the truth the best we could. After that all a person can do is see what we said, study on their own and open up their minds. And if being a member of the CC is meant to be, it will happen.*​

You are right, Rinnie. Only the Holy Ghost can convert, as the New Testament makes clear. Protestant (as an Adventist, a sectary rather than a genuine Protestant) 101 already believes in the Christian faith, albeit not so perfectly as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach it. If God draw him to become Catholic, it will be by the Holy Ghost confirming His Word within his heart, mind, and soul.

Pax, Jerry Parker

You got it Jerry. And if, and I mean IF the Holy Spirit would choose You, or I, or anyone on here to work through, what a wonderful day it could be. But we will never know but can only pray we are doing the best with the grace we are given. Remember we are all given different gifts. No matter what faith we are. And when push comes to shove we are all part of the same family.

God’s Family

 

[Protestant101]

Hey Prot. 101 Did you maybe wake up on the wrong side of the bed today Maybe take your mean pills today

You sure been awful hatelfull to everyone today. Maybe we better start back tommorow and you can wake up on the other side of the bed

Well; it’s Canada Day today so I will take some “Nice Pills.” Sorry if my post sounded mean or hateful. I was actually just being facetious and making sport of something that I felt was not intended in a good sense.

BTW, which side of the bed do we wake up on to be in the right mood? (there are 4 sides). Now you have really got me confused.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Protestant 101,

**You wrote: ** Well, it’s Canada Day today so I will take some “Nice Pills.” Sorry if my post sounded mean or hateful. I was actually just being facetious and making sport of something that I felt was not intended in a good sense.​

Yup, it is Dominion Day (a.k.a. “Canada Day”), and I wish you an happy one, dude, by which ever name of the holiday you celebrate it!

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Well; it’s Canada Day today so I will take some “Nice Pills.” Sorry if my post sounded mean or hateful. I was actually just being facetious and making sport of something that I felt was not intended in a good sense.

BTW, which side of the bed do we wake up on to be in the right mood? (there are 4 sides). Now you have really got me confused.

The RIGHT side That’s okay sometimes we all sound a little mean and hatefull. Even ME! But todays a different day, And I know sometimes even when we are not meaning to be mean and hatefull we can come off that way. But todays another day

 

[Protestant101]

The RIGHT side That’s okay sometimes we all sound a little mean and hatefull. Even ME! But todays a different day, And I know sometimes even when we are not meaning to be mean and hatefull we can come off that way. But todays another day

LOL, different day but same troubles, eh?

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Hi, y’all!

I wonder if anyone could comment on these problems (or lack of them) in Catholic campus ministries, chapels, etc. It would seem likely that Masses held under such auspices would tend to encourage more socialising and even friendships. I remember the Newman Clubs back when I was in junior college and the same as part of an university off-campus ministry by the Paulist Fathers, but that was a long time ago, before the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass did so much to ruin church attendance.

Can anyone comment on the social life and interactions, if any, that campus ministries, whether on- or off-campus generate?

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[distracted]

Hi, y’all!

I wonder if anyone could comment on these problems (or lack of them) in Catholic campus ministries, chapels, etc. It would seem likely that Masses held under such auspices would tend to encourage more socialising and even friendships. I remember the Newman Clubs back when I was in junior college and the same as part of an university off-campus ministry by the Paulist Fathers, but that was a long time ago, before the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass did so much to ruin church attendance.

Can anyone comment on the social life and interactions, if any, that campus ministries, whether on- or off-campus generate?

Pax, Jerry Parker

all i know is that a lot of young peole lose their faith when they go to college… and having been on college campuses a lot myself… i can see WHY… very liberal atmosphere, some colleges worse than others… but all fairly liberal…

but once you know the Real Presence… Virtually impossibl to lose your faith…

 

[Jerry_Parker]

**We wrote: Jerry: I wonder if anyone could comment on these problems (or lack of them) in Catholic campus ministries, chapels, etc. It would seem likely that Masses held under such auspices would tend to encourage more socialising and even friendships. I remember the Newman Clubs back when I was in junior college and the same as part of an university off-campus ministry by the Paulist Fathers, but that was a long time ago, before the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass did so much to ruin church attendance.

Can anyone comment on the social life and interactions, if any, that campus ministries, whether on- or off-campus generate?

**Distracted: **All I know is that a lot of young peole lose their faith when they go to college – and having been on college campuses a lot myself, I can see WHY: very liberal atmosphere, some colleges worse than others, but all fairly liberal…

But once you know the Real Presence, [it’s v]irtually impossible to lose your faith.**​

Good point there, Distracted. Atop the colleges and universities themselves being more modernist than ever, the clergy, Catholic priests and other college and university activists included, on the campuses tend to be very “liberal” as well. The Newman Clubs back in the early and mid-1960s were not so much that way, but have become so since then, from all accounts. As for your mention of the Real Presence, when the 1962 Latin and 1965 mixed Latin-vernacular editions of the Missale Romanum still were normative, the work of the Real Presence of our Lord was more obvious than in the trivialised vernacular liturgies that the young would witness and participate in now on or off campus back at home with their families, the *Novus Ordo’s *deadening grip being everywhere now.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[distracted]

We wrote: Jerry: I wonder if anyone could comment on these problems (or lack of them) in Catholic campus ministries, chapels, etc. It would seem likely that Masses held under such auspices would tend to encourage more socialising and even friendships. I remember the Newman Clubs back when I was in junior college and the same as part of an university off-campus ministry by the Paulist Fathers, but that was a long time ago, before the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass did so much to ruin church attendance.

Can anyone comment on the social life and interactions, if any, that campus ministries, whether on- or off-campus generate?

**Distracted: **All I know is that a lot of young peole lose their faith when they go to college – and having been on college campuses a lot myself, I can see WHY: very liberal atmosphere, some colleges worse than others, but all fairly liberal…

But once you know the Real Presence, [it’s v]irtually impossible to lose your faith.​

Good point there, Distracted. Atop the colleges and universities themselves being more modernist than ever, the clergy, Catholic priests and other college and university activists included, on the campuses tend to be very “liberal” as well. The Newman Clubs back in the early and mid-1960s were not so much that way, but have become so since then, from all accounts. As for your mention of the Real Presence, when the 1962 Latin and 1965 mixed Latin-vernacular editions of the Missale Romanum still were normative, the work of the Real Presence of our Lord was more obvious than in the trivialised vernacular liturgies that the young would witness and participate in now on or off campus back at home with their families, the *Novus Ordo’s *deadening grip being everywhere now.

Pax, Jerry Parker

nice to find someone who agrees w/ me about the NO Mass… I hate the hand holding and the greeting during Mass…

and priests these days… Yikes… I’ve seen som real liberal ones… ones you would swear were protestants… (if you didnt… uh… “know better”)

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

You wrote: *Nice to find someone who agrees w/ me about the NO Mass… I hate the hand holding and the greeting during Mass…

And priests these days – Yikes – I’ve seen some real[ly] liberal ones – [they’re the] ones you would swear were Protestants – if you didn’t uh – “know better”.*​

Yes, you have it right, Distracted. Frankly, I think that some priests (and, alas, even the worst of the bishops) these days are rank unbelievers (certainly not genuine believers in Catholicism) and really need to be converted. How can the Church make any progress if priests who are unbelievers or otherwise not really Catholic are at work undermining it? The “pop” Catholicism (or “Catholicism lite” that they so prefer and promote is ineffectual and surely unworthy of the rites (even the N.O.) which they were ordained to celebrate. I know that there are many good priests, and the younger ones are tending to be better (if they aren’t gay or spoiled some other way, theological or whatever) but the “bad ones” are ruinous to the Church and to the faith of the laity. Thankfully, Pope Benedict XVI is making efforts to reverse such things, so we must pray for our Pontiff and for the great work that he needs to do within the Church and within the ranks of its clergy.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[KathleenGee]

If you want alot of singing and enthusiasm, then I would say, you are needing a more emotionally based worship…

Alot of Catholics have not had sufficient liturgical catechesis, but do basically understand what is happening at the Mass.

Unfortunately, when times are provided to better instruct the laity, most do not have the time to attend.

The more people understand what is happening at the Mass, the more their participation. However the Catholic response to attendance at Mass is nourishment and union with Christ through Word and Sacrament.

So when an observer sees people hearing the Word of God and go up to receive the Eucharist, and you hear them say, ‘Amen’, they do believe they are receiving the Body and Blood of Christ, that observation is sufficient enough to affirm these people have fully worshipped God.

To outwardly judge people’s disposition at Mass, based on outward form of emotion, is baseless criteria to discern whether or not a person has fully and enthusiastically attended Mass.

I have known some very devout older Catholics who were defenders of their faith, go to Mass, and start to dose off because they are old. I know their intentions and know they fully attended in spite of their infirmities.

I attended a Mass where a number of people were talking all during the Mass, not listening, and then during the offertory, the priest had the people then go out and start talking to everyone in the church. I did not respond…then I went over to have coffee and donuts and the people gave me these cold stares…the behavior during Mass was an aberration, and the said priest eventually went to prison for abuse.

There is so much to learn about the Mass that there really isn’t any time to be paying attention to other people at Mass, or picking and choosing what you do or don’t believe in. Doing so demonstrates you are not really at Mass and in the reality of the greater Mystery in Christ.

Finding Catholic friends who are on the same spiritual level that you can open your heart to will help alot in connecting to Mass more and the greater community. I have been in three parishes where I walk in, knowing nobody and already felt connected to everyone.

 

[GaryTaylor]

You can find Mary. Jesus and God wherever you are. I don’t believe they are limited by, bad teachers, bad areas, or anything else in this world for that matter.

If you practice daily recitation of the Rosary, you’ll find the Church, Priest and Mass you are seeking. Not a doubt in my mind about it.

While the Roman Cathilic church has been recieving much ink as of lately, those issues are everywhere. I believe they prevail less in the Catholic Church than everywhere else. They just get more attention in the Catholic faith because its a sacret institution. And thats not to downplay the seriousness of the wrong. But thats not for “us” to judge. Evil has no boundries. The serpent found its way in Gods Garden. What on earth would make you think he won’t show up in the church? But you take this straight to the bank. He’ll be in the presence of Mary, Jesus and God less then anywhere else. And the more you Pray to Mary the less evil will be around you.

In the New Testament God chose to come to us through Mary. And thats exactly how he wants us to return to him. Does that mean he can’t do whatever he wills? Course not. Thats clear in the Old Testament.

Problems in the universitys across this country have always existed. I propose they were worse in the late 60’s and 70’s than they are now. Teens get away from all boundries for the “first” time most likely. Satans at the door awaiting the new comers arrival. The elect have their hands full, yet they are bound by man’s law. Let alone the way each university involves itself with its students. Especially those they have an invested interest in.

I lived in the Athletic Dorms at school. Believe me I witnessed all the Pagan traditions. With zero consequence’s from the school.

But Faith is where you chose to make a stand to find it. Its not coming without effort though. Though I believe the Grace you receive will exceed the effort you put into it.

I’ll pray for ya.

 

[distracted]

Distracted,

You wrote: *Nice to find someone who agrees w/ me about the NO Mass… I hate the hand holding and the greeting during Mass…

And priests these days – Yikes – I’ve seen some real[ly] liberal ones – [they’re the] ones you would swear were Protestants – if you didn’t uh – “know better”.*​

Yes, you have it right, Distracted. Frankly, I think that some priests (and, alas, even the worst of the bishops) these days are rank unbelievers (certainly not genuine believers in Catholicism) and really need to be converted. How can the Church make any progress if priests who are unbelievers or otherwise not really Catholic are at work undermining it? The “pop” Catholicism (or “Catholicism lite” that they so prefer and promote is ineffectual and surely unworthy of the rites (even the N.O.) which they were ordained to celebrate. I know that there are many good priests, and the younger ones are tending to be better (if they aren’t gay or spoiled some other way, theological or whatever) but the “bad ones” are ruinous to the Church and to the faith of the laity. Thankfully, Pope Benedict XVI is making efforts to reverse such things, so we must pray for our Pontiff and for the great work that he needs to do within the Church and within the ranks of its clergy.

Pax, Jerry Parker

hmmm… to hear some tell, the pope is in on it too… but again, don’t know what to believe cuz haven’t investigated THOROUGHLY

you seem to be one of the few I’ve “met” who doesn’t like the hand holding & greeting during Mass… i refuse to do it… I sometimes leave at this part… go get a drink of water… people think i’m a snot but I’ve explained to at least 1 parishioner… don’t feel i should have to explain to the whol Church… but anyhow…

when i am focusing on Jesus and the other “things” ofthe Mass… i do NOT want to have all that interrupted by humans who … uh… some of whom probably hate my freaking guts… true story…

geeze…

if it aint broke, why fix it???:banghead:

 

[distracted]

If
I have known some very devout older Catholics who were defenders of their faith, go to Mass, and start to dose off because they are old. I know their intentions and know they fully attended in spite of their infirmities.

the rare times i have dozed off i experienced awesome things… Actually, not sure i have ever dozed off during Mass, but have dozed off in the Real Presence when no Mass going on… and again… great experience… can’t describe in mere words… but it stands to reason being with Jesus intimately wouldbe awesome…

I attended a Mass where a number of people were talking all during the Mass, not listening, and then during the offertory, the priest had the people then go out and start talking to everyone in the church. I did not respond…then I went over to have coffee and donuts and the people gave me these cold stares…the behavior during Mass was an aberration, and the said priest eventually went to prison for abuse.

hmmm… notsurprising… anyone who thinks to do abuse to the mass… will abuse anything or anyone… by the way… if you could PM me about how the abuse was dealt with… cuz i have been trying to find out about such things… seems there is a lot of secrecy going on… just wondering about some things… don’t know what to believe… do NOT believe the media… at least not all the time anyhow…

There is so much to learn about the Mass that there really isn’t any time to be paying attention to other people at Mass, or picking and choosing what you do or don’t believe in. Doing so demonstrates you are not really at Mass and in the reality of the greater Mystery in Christ.

i have told myself often that i should not let [whatever] distract me at Mass… I’ve actually gotten pretty good at not letting people talking distract me (b4 Mass)… i don’t even hear what they are saying even when speaking louodly… so that’s cool… Even so, certain things still distract me… We are HUMaN … I think its awful to be into Jesus and the whole mystery of the Mass… and then have to focus on fallible, sinful human beings by shaking their hands… some of those people do NOT always feel much affection toward you… (long story there)…

i feel this innovation of Vat II was deliberately set up in order to HUMANIZE the Mass…

geeze… i thought humanity was the PROBLEM…

i thought human nature was the whole reason Jesus had to come and suffer a horrendous death for us?

No, i dont want to focus on humans whne i go to Mass…

if that makes me sound uncharitable, so be it… .

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

You wrote: *You seem to be one of the few I’ve “met” who doesn’t like the hand holding & greeting during Mass. I refuse to do it. I sometimes leave at this part. Go get a drink of water. People think I’m a snot but I’ve explained to at least 1 parishioner. I don’t feel that Ishould have to explain to the whol Church – but anyhow…

When i am focusing on Jesus and the other “things” ofthe Mass, I do NOT want to have all that interrupted by humans who – uh… some of whom probably hate my freaking guts – true story.

Geeze—.*​

There are times – too many of them – when I dislike something at Mass, especially if it is cheap or entails wrong doctrine. At such times I find my place in my favourite old devotional prayer manual and say a litany or similar prayer, to block out what is the problem. This works quite well. (It does not pay to try to say the Rosary; the Novus Ordo liturgy is so short and stripped down that there is not the time to say an entire decade of it!

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[KathleenGee]

Vatican II corrected unhealthy devotions and practices in some religious congregations…that in turn also brought its effects to lay people…I was a child under the tutelage of very strict nuns…met a nun from that very convent who told us some things about the practices there…Vatican II corrected those excesses.

When priests are sent to prison, the news is in the newspaper…there were regrets the man was even ordained. So we need greater discernment of vocations regarding the priestly and religious life.

There was indeed unhealthy inclinations in the Pre Vatican II Church…especially in certain ethnic cultures. There is still controversy regarding Novus Ordo. About holding hands, people must have complained to the pastor as many don’t like it. I don’t hold hands when I have a cold and people at first think I am uncharitable and whisper that I can’t because … When we had an outbreak of the Swine Flu, we were told not to hold hands…and during this time it came out that holding hands during Mass was no longer a practice.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Kathleen,

**You wrote: ** There was * indeed unhealthy inclinations in the Pre Vatican II Church.​

Well, yes, as there are in any age. However, the unhealthy riot of rot that has beset Catholics since the Second Vatican Council has no comparison in post-Council of Trent Catholic times till the innovators after 1965 (accelerating their scandals yet more after the 1970 Novus Ordo revised Mass), of the kind of nasty revolt that has arisen in and dominated the Roman Catholic Church (outside the Vatican, and even within it to some extent)!

No, Kathleen, give me the pre-1970 Church, even better, the pre-1965 Church, as it had been, “warts and all” to the wreck that is left now after so many years of tumult!

Pax, Jerry Parker*