With Border Crossings at a Trickle, Why Build a Mexico Wall?

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Imdaman said:
If Jose entered illegally the first time he came to the US is well within their rights to klck him out or refuse to let him back in.
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Legally, yes. Ethically, no.
Imdaman said:
No, what I said is that it is not immoral for the US to keep him out
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Your stance is not consistent with the CCC. What moral guideline are you using? This person and his family will suffer if he cannot make it back in.
 
Stephen_C said:
Using the same logic those folk who refused to sit in the back of the bus were immoral?
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I certainly don’t agree with that. Please explain the logic behind this statement. I just don’t see it.
 
exnihilo said:
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LeafByNiggle:
If you dream about dismantling the federal government, why do you also want to defend it by enforcing national borders? I would think you would like individual states to set their own border policies and enforce them.
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One of the few arguments for the federal government is that it controls and protects the borders. It fails miserably at this task. The federal government isn’t going away anytime soon. So until then we ought to have decent border control. We won’t get it, because the federal government can’t do anything right. But I’ll support it.
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I see you have jumped the shark.
 
OneSheep said:
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Imdaman:
If Jose entered illegally the first time he came to the US is well within their rights to klck him out or refuse to let him back in.
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Legally, yes. Ethically, no.
Imdaman said:
No, what I said is that it is not immoral for the US to keep him out
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Your stance is not consistent with the CCC. What moral guideline are you using? This person and his family will suffer if he cannot make it back in.
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I disagree there is nothing ethically wrong with a country securing it’s borders. Every Country does this. Every Country has laws to remove illegal immigrants from it’s borders.

My stance is not inconsistent with the CCC. The person in question will need to support his family from Mexico like the millions of other mexicans do.
 
Breaking the law = immoral
Sometimes just because you a breaking the law does not mean you are being immoral.
 
Yes they do! Canada deports, illegals or criminals and people for many other reasons, all the time.

www.neverhome.ca

"Back to where you came from”: Canada deports 35 people daily | NeverHome.ca

Canadian government deported an average of 35 people per day over the past nine years, including to countries with moratoriums on deportation. Federal government and Canada Border Services Agency also bribe people to self-deport and use international smugglers.
www.neverhome.ca www.neverhome.ca
 
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Imdaman said:
I disagree there is nothing ethically wrong with a country securing it’s borders. Every Country does this. Every Country has laws to remove illegal immigrants from it’s borders.
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I agree with this in certain circumstances. Yes, when allowing Jose to come in creates another impoverished person in America, then it is ethical to keep him out perhaps. But for Jose’s case, it is different. He is not displacing an American with a job, in fact his employer is desperate for him to return, because his crop is not being completely harvested for lack of labor. Jose’s work is helping America, and he is helping his family. Are you saying that it is ethical to stop Jose from coming back?

This person. Jose.
Imdaman said:
The person in question will need to support his family from Mexico like the millions of other mexicans do.
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Your assertion shows a lack of understanding of what it means to be impoverished.

People in the starving nations of the world need to get good jobs and support their families in their own country? Is this your message to the impoverished in this world?
 
OneSheep said:
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Imdaman:
I disagree there is nothing ethically wrong with a country securing it’s borders. Every Country does this. Every Country has laws to remove illegal immigrants from it’s borders.
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I agree with this in certain circumstances. Yes, when allowing Jose to come in creates another impoverished person in America, then it is ethical to keep him out perhaps. But for Jose’s case, it is different. He is not displacing an American with a job, in fact his employer is desperate for him to return, because his crop is not being completely harvested for lack of labor. Jose’s work is helping America, and he is helping his family. Are you saying that it is ethical to stop Jose from coming back?

This person. Jose.
Imdaman said:
The person in question will need to support his family from Mexico like the millions of other mexicans do.
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Your assertion shows a lack of understanding of what it means to be impoverished.

People in the starving nations of the world need to get good jobs and support their families in their own country? Is this your message to the impoverished in this world?
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IF the Employer is desperate for the worker he should have helped Jose gain a workers permit and possibly legal immigrant status. That is what a reasonable person who needs an employee does. The US has rules for a company to follow in order to import workers from other countries. I agree with you that if the employer needs him then they should allow him back through after going through the proper channels. Unfortunately for Jose once he decided to remain or cross over illegally the immigration dept will more than likely flag him as a threat (not a reference to violence). I pray that he gets back to his job for both the employers sake and Jose’s sake. This has to be done through legal channels. Border security is important for all countries.
 
OneSheep said:
But for Jose’s case, it is different. He is not displacing an American with a job, in fact his employer is desperate for him to return, because his crop is not being completely harvested for lack of labor. Jose’s work is helping America, and he is helping his family. Are you saying that it is ethical to stop Jose from coming back?
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Right. His employer is desperate for him to return so he can pay him below market wages and not give him health insurance. The rest of us taxpayers get to pay for that. Also, there are plenty of Americans who don’t have a job. So yes, he is displacing someone.
signit said:
The analysis estimates the cost to per person crossing illegally and concludes that if the wall only stopped a small percentage of illegals it would pay for itself.
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That should be obvious enough. Just one child of an illegal costs taxpayers over $10,000 per year for education alone. I think there are close to or more than a million DACA recipients. That is ten billion a year alone.
 
Imdaman said:
I certainly don’t agree with that. Please explain the logic behind this statement. I just don’t see it.
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Laws were in place in Alabama. If you were black, you had to sit in the back. Also if a white wanted the seat of a black, the black had to relinquish that seat. Enter Rosa Parks.

Were those laws moral?

Just as you don’t believe the current state of Abortion Laws are moral?

Sounds like an example of I want to save my cake and eat it too.
 
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So a Law requiring people to enter your country legally is as morally repugnant as making a person of color to sit at the back of the bus? I certainly do not agree with your logic here. I believe countries have a moral obligation to their citizens to secure their borders from illegal entry. Every Country in the World agrees with me.
 
Imdaman said:
So a Law requiring people to enter your country legally is as morally repugnant as making a person of color to sit at the back of the bus? I certainly do not agree with your logic here. I believe countries have a moral obligation to their citizens to secure their borders from illegal entry. Every Country in the World agrees with me.
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Are we trying to secure the Northern Border in the same manner as the Southern Border?
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
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Imdaman:
So a Law requiring people to enter your country legally is as morally repugnant as making a person of color to sit at the back of the bus? I certainly do not agree with your logic here. I believe countries have a moral obligation to their citizens to secure their borders from illegal entry. Every Country in the World agrees with me.
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Are we trying to secure the Northern Border in the same manner as the Southern Border?
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Does the US have the same issues we have with the Northern Border as we do with the Southern border? Are Canadians allowed to come into the states Illegally and or overstay there work visas? I’m not sure where you are going with this.
 
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