With Border Crossings at a Trickle, Why Build a Mexico Wall?

[Stephen_C]

With Border Crossings at a Trickle, Why Build a Mexico Wall? - Newsweek

“In any case, he was right not to brag about it: 98.8 percent of the decline in illegal entries from 1986 to 2017 occurred entirely before Trump’s inauguration. While his year in office has continued a preexisting downward trend, his campaign rhetoric appears to have caused a pre-inauguration surge in arrivals. His overall effect is essentially zero”.

 

[exnihilo]

Illegal crossings are naturally difficult to count…

Nope, they are impossible to count. We need a wall if only to stop a single illegal. But I don’t trust any number saying there are less illegals coming over. It is like the numbers, from the same sources, saying illegals voting isn’t a problem. It is simply unbelievable.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Trump: I promised it on the campaign trail.

"I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me --and I’ll build them very inexpensively.

Well that is quite proven to be true where he hired 200 illegal immigrants and paid them $4 an hour…

Trump Paid Over $1 Million in Labor Settlement, Documents Reveal - The New York Times

I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."

Yes we have marked them in granite.

 

[Axsenex]

Still got a lot of low paying jobs available in farming & other industries :man_shrugging:t2:

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Still got a lot of low paying jobs available in farming & other industries

Job’s that most Americans don’t want to do.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Illegal crossings are naturally difficult to count…

…but not impossible to estimate.

We need a wall if only to stop a single illegal. But I don’t trust any number saying there are less illegals coming over. It is like the numbers, from the same sources, saying illegals voting isn’t a problem. It is simply unbelievable.

Maybe you can’t believe it, but most people can. When facts don’t support one’s world view it is tempting to simply distrust the facts. Understandable.

However it is a mistake to decide hugely expensive public policy questions without considering cost-effectiveness. No reasonable person would consider building a wall costing at least $15 billion with an annual maintenance cost of $700 million just to stop one illegal Mexican day-laborer.

 

[exnihilo]

…but not impossible to estimate.

If by estimate you mean guess. And that guess isn’t one that can be confirmed. At least if you say guess how many M&Ms are in a jar you can actually count it and verify if you were close. Not so with illegals. So people who want to downplay the problem can just make up a number that can’t be challenged.

However it is a mistake to decide hugely expensive public policy questions without considering cost-effectiveness. No reasonable person would consider building a wall costing at least $15 billion with an annual maintenance cost of $700 million just to stop one illegal Mexican day-laborer.

Luckily Americans aren’t very reasonable. We wasted over a trillion dollars in Iraq alone. A border wall that stops just one illegal is a far better use of our money and nothing in the whole scheme of things.

 

[stinkcat_14]

We need a wall if only to stop a single illegal.

Anyone who would say this needs a lessen in cost benefit analysis.

 

[exnihilo]

Not really. The cost of the federal government to me is high and I get no benefit from it. A wall would actually be something I would benefit from. I’m not alone.

 

[signit]

However it is a mistake to decide hugely expensive public policy questions without considering cost-effectiveness. No reasonable person would consider building a wall costing at least $15 billion with an annual maintenance cost of $700 million just to stop one illegal Mexican day-laborer.

I support building the wall.

What is the cost of not building the wall?

(1) Social services for people here illegally;

(2) Lower wages for Americans from illegals working “under the table”;

(3) Other issues that are hard to quantify (e.g., the effect of crime).

Estimates I’ve seen are that we save money by building the wall.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

…but not impossible to estimate.

If by estimate you mean guess. And that guess isn’t one that can be confirmed. At least if you say guess how many M&Ms are in a jar you can actually count it and verify if you were close. Not so with illegals. So people who want to downplay the problem can just make up a number that can’t be challenged.

There is a science to estimation. Your not accepting it does not discredit that science.

However it is a mistake to decide hugely expensive public policy questions without considering cost-effectiveness. No reasonable person would consider building a wall costing at least $15 billion with an annual maintenance cost of $700 million just to stop one illegal Mexican day-laborer.

Luckily Americans aren’t very reasonable. We wasted over a trillion dollars in Iraq alone. A border wall that stops just one illegal is a far better use of our money and nothing in the whole scheme of things.

Are you arguing that wasted money in Iraq justifies wasting money elsewhere? That doesn’t make sense. The wall is not cost-effective unless it stops a large number of illegals.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Not really. The cost of the federal government to me is high and I get no benefit from it. A wall would actually be something I would benefit from. I’m not alone.

If you are willing to pay for it voluntarily, then by all means build a wall. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for it though.

 

[exnihilo]

There is a science to estimation. Your not accepting it does not discredit that science.

Oh I understand statistics perfectly well and accept it. That is why I’d question any number presented.

The wall is not cost-effective unless it stops a large number of illegals.

Nothing the federal government does is cost effective. Why hold this one thing to that standard?

 

[exnihilo]

If you are willing to pay for it voluntarily, then by all means build a wall. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for it though.

Government exists to force people to pay for things they don’t want to. All the money the government takes from me is to pay for things I don’t want. It only seems fair I get at least one thing I want from the robbery.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Government exists to force people to pay for things they don’t want to. All the money the government takes from me is to pay for things I don’t want. It only seems fair I get at least one thing I want from the robbery.

Of course, Trump said Mexico was going to pay for it. By now we know that was a blatant lie. Now, why should we trust that someone who tells an outright falsehood can be trusted to build a wall?

 

[exnihilo]

If we stopped trusting anyone who lies we’d have no politicians left to trust!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actual enforcement of the border does have an effect, it appears. And it might do well in the future if enough border guards are hired to replace the National Guardsmen that have been put there to stem the flow.

But a future Democrat administration can change to lax enforcement again. They aren’t going to tear down a wall.

 

[OneSheep]

We need a wall if only to stop a single illegal.

Good Morning, exnihilo

You are thinking that it is very important to stop a single person from illegally entering the U.S.

Why is this so?

 

[exnihilo]

Because they are breaking the law.

 

[OneSheep]

Sometimes breaking the law is the moral thing to do, right?