Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[Scott_Lafrance]

What “facts” show that Martin chose to return and confront Zimmerman? The only facts are the girlfriend’s cell phone records which say the opposite. Thankfully, there are people who value Trayvon Martin’s life and want this judged with a fair investigation instead of favoritism.

What facts show that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation with Martin? A reading of the public account shows that Zimmerman was following him, and when they 911 operator told him not to, he complied and went back to his car. How the story of his cousin being molested by him is relevant to the facts surrounding the altercation between Martin and Zimmmerman are beyond understanding. It is a blatant attempt by the media to paint Zimmerman as an aweful human being.

He is a sexual predator who shots black kids on sight and then tries to make money on it.

That’s the narrative that the media is trying to promote (well, trying to create by doctoring audio, video and pictures.)

 

[scipio337]

Can you give me some proof that this happened?

From NARAL Pro-choice America

Oddly enough, there is nary a mention of “concrete” or “broken nose” in that entirely unbiased source.

 

[He_Man]

The Sanford police let Zimmerman off without a full investigation after he gunned a man down. In fact, the Sheriff hid Zimmerman in his home, showing favoritism: the practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another. If Sharpton had not brought this case to the media, Zimmerman would never have been investigated and Trayvon Martin would have been treated as if his life was worth nothing. As didymus posted, there needs to be a full investigation.

It is confusing why anyone who says they are pro-life cares nothing about the moral rightness or wrongness of Zimmerman’s decision to take Trayvon Martin’s life. If someone can shoot another innocent person just because they want to, why can’t someone murder an unborn baby just because they want to? Abortion advocates also argue that abortion is “self-defense” against the child, but the Church says that the mother’s life has to actually be verifiably in danger before that can be true.

You are blurring the lines. the question is and has always been “was Zimmerman legitimately defending himself?”

Whether or not he molested a relative, is a raging racist xenophobe, or anything, is irrelevant to the point. Was he legitimately defending himself? This is permitted by Catholic teaching, and is the crux of the matter, legally as well. They’ll never get him on murder two.

Abortion is never legitimately defending yourself, and is a false comparison, much like casualties of legitimate war and abortion are false comparisons. All lives lost are to be wept for, but even the Church recognizes times when that loss is morally acceptable

 

[scipio337]

What “facts” show that Martin chose to return and confront Zimmerman? The only facts are the girlfriend’s cell phone records which say the opposite. Thankfully, there are people who value Trayvon Martin’s life and want this judged with a fair investigation instead of favoritism.

Thankfully, there are people who value both Trayvon Martin’s AND George Zimmerman’s life, who based on the evidence provided, don’t believe it sufficient to confict for 2nd Degree murder:

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable “heat of passion” or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender’s obvious lack of concern for human life.

criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-definition.html

The shooting may indeed be defined withing “a reasonable heat of passion” (physical confrontation), and there is no evidence of “lack of concern for human life”.

You act as is Zimmerman shot Martin randomly, or without calling 9/11. These aren’t the acts of someone with a lack of concern for human life.

 

[eternalrest]

What facts show that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation with Martin? A reading of the public account shows that Zimmerman was following him, and when they 911 operator told him not to, he complied and went back to his car. How the story of his cousin being molested by him is relevant to the facts surrounding the altercation between Martin and Zimmmerman are beyond understanding. It is a blatant attempt by the media to paint Zimmerman as an aweful human being.

Zimmerman has a story that Martin initiated the confrontation, Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend says she was on the phone with Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman was following Trayvon and initiated the conversation. The cell phone records fit her story a lot better than they fit Zimmerman’s story. The cousin being molested by him helps get a better picture of Zimmerman’s character.

He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.

Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone.

gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-i-told-him-to-run-seconds-before-he-was-shot

He is a sexual predator who shots black kids on sight and then tries to make money on it.

That’s the narrative that the media is trying to promote (well, trying to create by doctoring audio, video and pictures.)

Has there been more than one instance of a doctored audio/video/picture? Or just that one incident with NBC where the person was fired for doing so? On the other hand, Michelle Malkin published fake pictures without any penalties on her job. So it doesn’t look like all the media has the same agenda for sure.

 

[eternalrest]

You are blurring the lines. the question is and has always been “was Zimmerman legitimately defending himself?”

Whether or not he molested a relative, is a raging racist xenophobe, or anything, is irrelevant to the point. Was he legitimately defending himself? This is permitted by Catholic teaching, and is the crux of the matter, legally as well. They’ll never get him on murder two.

Abortion is never legitimately defending yourself, and is a false comparison, much like casualties of legitimate war and abortion are false comparisons. All lives lost are to be wept for, but even the Church recognizes times when that loss is morally acceptable

The question has not been answered yet and must be answered by a full investigation!

 

[He_Man]

There certainly was not! They didn’t even bother to interview Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend, whose objective cell phone records contradict all of Zimmerman’s statements.

There are a lot of people who seem to think Trayvon Martin was a no good thug who deserved to be shot and the real crime is that people, such as Sharpton, actually care about the exact circumstances of the death and want a fair investigation. Just look at how Michelle Malkin used a fake photo of Trayvon Martin to depict him as a thug. See the post above where the person wants a full investigation of Sharpton but not Zimmerman.

Link to any of them on Catholic Answers. Unless you are referring to outsiders, and I’d still want to see a link to them, but why should anyone on here be obliged to speak for someone’s quote from outside the site?

Again, post a link on here where someone believes Trayvon deserved to be shot, and then we can ask the poster to explain it.

Al Sharpton is a race-baiting fool with terrible hair, but that has nothing to do with Trayvon and his death in this case. You CAN admit as such about Sharpton and feel sad for the Martin family.

 

[eternalrest]

Thankfully, there are people who value both Trayvon Martin’s AND George Zimmerman’s life, who based on the evidence provided, don’t believe it sufficient to confict for 2nd Degree murder:

criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-definition.html

The shooting may indeed be defined withing “a reasonable heat of passion” (physical confrontation), and there is no evidence of “lack of concern for human life”.

You act as is Zimmerman shot Martin randomly, or without calling 9/11. These aren’t the acts of someone with a lack of concern for human life.

He seems to have ignored the advice of 9/11 so its not clear why he called. How are people valuing Trayvon Martin’s life by asking to shut down the investigation and criticizing those who called for an investigation?

 

[He_Man]

Can you give me some proof that this happened?

From NARAL Pro-choice America
prochoiceamerica.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-bans-no-exceptions-endanger-women.pdf

• Vikki Stella, a diabetic, discovered during her 32nd week of pregnancy that the fetus she
  was carrying suffered from several major anomalies and had no chance of survival. Because
  of Vikki’s diabetes, her doctor determined that induced labor and Caesarian section were
  both riskier procedures for Vikki than an abortion. The procedure not only protected Vikki
  from immediate medical risks, but also ensured that she would be able to have children in
  the future.
• Jennifer Peterson was 35 and pregnant when she discovered a lump in her breast. Tests
  showed she had invasive breast cancer.21 The cancer and its treatment, separate and apart
  from the pregnancy, were a threat to her health. A health exception recognizes the added
  threat to her health posed by pregnancy during the onset and treatment of her cancer, while
  without such an exception Jennifer would have been forced to continue her dangerous
  pregnancy. About one in 3,000 pregnant women also has breast cancer during her
  pregnancy, and for these women, a health exception is absolutely necessary.
• Beth Whalen, a 40-year-old mother of one, was diagnosed with heart disease after the birth
  of her son. She learned that any subsequent pregnancy could shave 10 years off her life.23
  Without a health exception that considers the risk that pregnancy poses to Beth’s long-term
  survival, Beth and women like her would be forced to carry dangerous pregnancies to term.
• Doctors report that many pregnant women with heart-valve disorders die each year from
  blood clots which, absent pregnancy, would not be life threatening.24 A physician who
  specializes in maternal cardiac medicine said that there are “extreme pregnancy-associated
  risks" for women with these heart conditions. The doctor explained that: “A high risk of
  maternal mortality has implications not just for the mother but also for any potential baby
  and siblings at home. And even if she survives the pregnancy, the woman may have a
  reduced life expectancy or suffer from limited physical capacity.”25 For a woman presenting
  late in a pregnancy with a severe heart disorder, a health exception recognizes the totality of the risks she faces and allows her to make the best decision for her health, her life, and her family.
• Claudia Crown Ades and her husband discovered in her second trimester that their fetus
  had a genetic disorder known as Trisomy 13, which caused the fetus to have “a fluid filled
  nonfunctional brain” and a “malformed heart.”27 Following the advice of her doctor and
  two specialists, she had an abortion that helped protect her fertility and allowed her to have
  children in the future.28
• During the seventh month of Coreen Costello’s third pregnancy her doctors determined that
  her fetus was suffering from a lethal neurological disorder. Because of their profound
  religious beliefs, the Costellos wanted to undergo a natural delivery process, but after
  Coreen’s health worsened, her doctors discovered that the head was too large to fit through
  Coreen’s cervix; a traditional delivery would have cost Coreen her fertility. After much
  anguish, Coreen accepted her physician’s recommendation that an abortion was the most
  appropriate option for her. She later stated: “Because of the safety of this procedure … I can
  have another healthy baby.”
• Because Viki Wilson’s fetus suffered from encephalocoele, two-thirds of its brain had
  formed outside its skull and it tragically would not survive. A traditional birthing process
  would have not only further harmed the fetus, but likely would have ruptured Viki’s uterus
  as well. Her doctor also determined that a Caesarean section would be too dangerous. An
  abortion was the safest solution for Viki, who called the procedure their “salvation.”

Got it. So you are the one with inconsistent morality… And to think you had the gall to accuse us of being inconsistent! Don’t cry about relative morality when you post NARAL links justifying murder of the defenseless.

I can readily admit Trayvin didn;t deserve to die, and neither do any children in the womb. You apparently can’t.

 

[He_Man]

The question has not been answered yet and must be answered by a full investigation!

And that’s what the trial is for! Huzzah!

What was your point again, since a trial is imminent?

 

[eternalrest]

And that’s what the trial is for! Huzzah!

What was your point again, since a trial is imminent?

That there is nothing wrong with Sharpton or the others asking for a trial, because if they had not done so it never would have happened!

 

[eternalrest]

Got it. So you are the one with inconsistent morality… And to think you had the gall to accuse us of being inconsistent! Don’t cry about relative morality when you post NARAL links justifying murder of the defenseless.

I can readily admit Trayvin didn;t deserve to die, and neither do any children in the womb. You apparently can’t.

This was a follow-up to this post. “It is confusing why anyone who says they are pro-life cares nothing about the moral rightness or wrongness of Zimmerman’s decision to take Trayvon Martin’s life. If someone can shoot another innocent person just because they want to, why can’t someone murder an unborn baby just because they want to? Abortion advocates also argue that abortion is “self-defense” against the child, but the Church says that the mother’s life has to actually be verifiably in danger before that can be true.”

It was presenting proof that abortion advocates often use the self-defense claim unjustly even when the mother’s life isn’t actually in danger.

 

[vz71]

Given that they didn’t even bother to interview Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend whose cell phone records contradict Zimmerman’s words, they certainly did NOT do their “due diligence.”

You are free to disagree with the investigation findings.
You are not free to deny the fullness of the investigation.

 

[scipio337]

Zimmerman has a story that Martin initiated the confrontation, Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend says she was on the phone with Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman was following Trayvon and initiated the conversation. The cell phone records fit her story a lot better than they fit Zimmerman’s story. The cousin being molested by him helps get a better picture of Zimmerman’s character.

gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-i-told-him-to-run-seconds-before-he-was-shot

What “cell phone records”? There is no recording of the conversation, just her word.

Investigator: “You hear Trayvon saying something?”

Girlfriend: “Yeah.”

Investigator: “And what do you hear Trayvon saying?”

Girlfriend: “Why you following me for?”

Investigator: “Why are you following me for?”

Girlfriend: “Yeah.”

Investigator: “And then what happened?”

Girlfriend: “I hear this man, like this old man say what are you doing around here?”

Investigator: “OK, so you can definitely tell another voice that was not Trayvon and you heard this other voice say what?”

Girlfriend: “What are you doing around here?”

Investigator: "What are you doing around here? OK.

Girlfriend: “And I call Trayvon, Trayvon what going on what going on?”…

wpix.com/news/wpix-trayvon-martin-cell-phone-transcript-released,0,4151196.story

It sounds like Martin initiated the conversation.

Would you say that Martin’s drug use (not alleged, confirmed by the autopsy and school suspension) also “help get a better picture of Martin’s character.”?

 

[He_Man]

That there is nothing wrong with Sharpton or the others asking for a trial, because if they had not done so it never would have happened!

An unprovable, and as such, meaningless statement. Any time a statement starts with a variant of “if I hadn’t…,” you know you are in for a weak argument.

See Obama’s case for how the stimulus svaed us from doom. :Yeah, this is the worst economy since the great depression, but man, if I hadn’t passed the surprlus, it would have been even worse!"

Oh yeah? Prove it.

 

[vz71]

See, this is a person who thinks there is nothing wrong with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin, but sees something wrong with Sharpton asking for a full investigation instead of ignoring inconvenient facts.

Jumping to conclusions of what I do or do not think is always a bad move.
You haven’t psychic ability, and lacking that you also have no evidence to back your claims.

I see a problem with the misinformation provided by Sharpton, Jackson, and many other media outlets.
Their misreporting of the incident has placed Zimmerman’s life in danger.

 

[vz71]

We have not sufficient evidence to conclude he believed his life in danger.

Exactly. We have insufficient evidence of any crime at all.

The more investigation is done, the more that nothing is turned up.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Exactly. We have insufficient evidence of any crime at all.

The more investigation is done, the more that nothing is turned up.

What I think may happen is that Zimmerman is going to be either found not guilty by reason of legitimate self-defense or the charges are going to be dropped before this ever gets to trial. Zimmerman will, in turn, sue the pants off the state of Florida, because, pursuant to their own “Stand your ground” laws, legitimate self defense provides exclusion from criminal AND civil litigation. Since Florida opted to pursue criminal charges out of political pressure, then they will have to pay the price in real dollars.

 

[eternalrest]

An unprovable, and as such, meaningless statement. Any time a statement starts with a variant of “if I hadn’t…,” you know you are in for a weak argument.

See Obama’s case for how the stimulus svaed us from doom. :Yeah, this is the worst economy since the great depression, but man, if I hadn’t passed the surprlus, it would have been even worse!"

Oh yeah? Prove it.

It is completely provable.

Local law enforcement in Sanford, Florida declared there wasn’t enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime, but the Florida State Attorney’s Office announced that a grand jury would ultimately decide if he should face criminal charges. The FBI and the United States Justice Department has also launched separate investigations.

The 17-year-old was on the phone with his girlfriend as Zimmerman began to follow him, and because she is a minor, RadarOnline.com isn’t disclosing her name. The Sanford Police Department never questioned Trayvon’s girlfriend, even though her parents contacted the cops to tell them she wanted to come in for a sit down interview.

“Trayvon’s girlfriend has been told that the Florida State Attorney’s Office has prepared a subpoena for her to appear in front of the grand jury. She has hired a lawyer to advise her and make sure that her rights are protected. Her attorney has told prosecutors that she is ready to appear and is looking forward to telling the grand jury what really happened on February 26,” a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-cellphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida

 

[eternalrest]

gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-i-told-him-to-run-seconds-before-he-was-shot

What “cell phone records”? There is no recording of the conversation, just her word.

Trayvon’s phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on the scene. Crump said the girl’s identity was being withheld because “her parents are gravely concerned about her health and her safety.” Her parents asked that only an attorney be allowed to ask her questions.

abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.UAYnGvV22So