Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[Scott_Lafrance]

It is completely provable.

radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-cellphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida

The FBI is part of the US Justice Department.

What are the results of the FBI’s AND the Justice Department’s investigation? There is nothing. Federal prosecutors have a very high rate of conviction, because they don’t bring up charges unless they can prove that a crime was committed. See Michael Vick, Scooter Libby, and Martha Stewart.

 

[He_Man]

It is completely provable.

radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-cellphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida

Then by all means, lets go back in time and prove it.

You asserted that this never would have gone to trial without Al Sharpton, after a few of us criticized Al.

You now claim (which is clearly not true) that logically, since Al got involved and it went to trial, by definition, the inverse is true - if Al doesn’t get involved, it doesn’t go to trial. You know this how?

Not only is this a falsehood geometrically and statistically, but practically, I ask again, how are we to prove it?

Without going back in time, how can we prove 100% what would have happened if Al Sharpton had not gotten involved?

Likewise, how can we prove 100% what would have happened to the economy if we had not had a stimulus package?

Neither is provable. Bolding text in your post does not an assertion prove.

 

[eternalrest]

Then by all means, lets go back in time and prove it.

You asserted that this never would have gone to trial without Al Sharpton, after a few of us criticized Al.

You now claim (which is clearly not true) that logically, since Al got involved and it went to trial, by definition, the inverse is true - if Al doesn’t get involved, it doesn’t go to trial. You know this how?

Not only is this a falsehood geometrically and statistically, but practically, I ask again, how are we to prove it?

Without going back in time, how can we prove 100% what would have happened if Al Sharpton had not gotten involved?

Likewise, how can we prove 100% what would have happened to the economy if we had not had a stimulus package?

Neither is provable. Bolding text in your post does not an assertion prove.

The standard of proof you are asking NOW for is only for God himself and is nothing more than a trick question. In a law court, there is only proof “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

It is clear that the Sanford police department refused to even interview a witness with evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s story. Sharpton (and others) created national attention for the case. Non-violent protesting went on by others. As a result of peaceful protesting against this injustice, the FBI and Justice departments launched separate investigations where they “subpoenaed” the girl instead of ignoring her. A 100% change in the way that the case was treated due to nonviolent peaceful protest.

 

[eternalrest]

The FBI is part of the US Justice Department.

What are the results of the FBI’s AND the Justice Department’s investigation? There is nothing. Federal prosecutors have a very high rate of conviction, because they don’t bring up charges unless they can prove that a crime was committed. See Michael Vick, Scooter Libby, and Martha Stewart.

And? What right do you have to shut down the investigation? Is it too expensive? Well what is the price of someone’s life? It inconveniences Zimmerman? He lost his right to not be inconvenienced with regards to how Trayvon Martin died when he killed him and told lies.

 

[vz71]

What “cell phone records”? There is no recording of the conversation, just her word.

Trayvon’s phone logs

As shown, there is no record of the conversation.
We only have her word on it.
For all we know, it could easily have been a butt dial with no conversation at all for 5 minutes.

 

[vz71]

The standard of proof you are asking NOW for is only for God himself and is nothing more than a trick question. In a law court, there is only proof “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Then by what standard would you convict someone of murder 2?

I always believed our judicial system called for a burden of proof that is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt.’
Would you have us act otherwise for this man?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And? What right do you have to shut down the investigation? Is it too expensive? Well what is the price of someone’s life? It inconveniences Zimmerman? He lost his right to not be inconvenienced with regards to how Trayvon Martin died when he killed him and told lies.

When the FBI AND the Justice Department both show as much interest in investigating black on white “hate crime” (like what is going on rampantly in Chicago) or even better…black on black hate crime, then I will give this dog and pony show a little more credibility.

 

[eternalrest]

Then by what standard would you convict someone of murder 2?

I always believed our judicial system called for a burden of proof that is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt.’
Would you have us act otherwise for this man?

Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of evidence required to validate a criminal conviction in most adversarial legal systems.[citation needed]

Generally the prosecution bears the burden of proof and is required to prove their version of events to this standard. This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no “reasonable doubt” in the mind of a “reasonable person” that the defendant is guilty. There can still be a doubt, but only to the extent that it would not affect a reasonable person’s belief regarding whether or not the defendant is guilty. “The shadow of a doubt” is sometimes used interchangeably with reasonable doubt, but this extends beyond the latter, to the extent that it may be considered an impossible standard. Reasonable doubt is therefore used.

If doubt does affect a “reasonable person’s” belief that the defendant is guilty, the jury is not satisfied beyond “reasonable doubt”. The precise meaning of words such as “reasonable” and “doubt” are usually defined within jurisprudence of the applicable country.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

 

[eternalrest]

When the FBI AND the Justice Department both show as much interest in investigating black on white “hate crime” (like what is going on rampantly in Chicago) or even better…black on black hate crime, then I will give this dog and pony show a little more credibility.

So to you, this boils down to nothing more than race. Zimmerman looks white. Trayvon Martin is black. Its a white on black crime, and thus it is not worthy of investigation. If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was black or Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was white, THEN it would be worthy of investigation. Is that a correct statement of your beliefs on this case?

 

[scipio337]

So to you, this boils down to nothing more than race. Zimmerman looks white. Trayvon Martin is black. Its a white on black crime, and thus it is not worthy of investigation. If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was black or Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was white, THEN it would be worthy of investigation. Is that a correct statement of your beliefs on this case?

NO, it absolutely is not, and I’m not sure why you would make that huge leap of interpretation.

Scott is simply saying this case is receiving an inordinate amount of attention BECAUSE OF RACE, as opposed to the much more common other examples given.

I would question why you don’t consider the others crime types Scott mentioned also worthy of such high scrutiny.

 

[maryjk]

The standard of proof you are asking NOW for is only for God himself and is nothing more than a trick question. In a law court, there is only proof “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

It is clear that the Sanford police department** refused to even interview a witness** with evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s story. Sharpton (and others) created national attention for the case. Non-violent protesting went on by others. As a result of peaceful protesting against this injustice, the FBI and Justice departments launched separate investigations where they “subpoenaed” the girl instead of ignoring her. A 100% change in the way that the case was treated due to nonviolent peaceful protest.

Refused to interview? How about didn’t know about a potential witness because she didn’t come forward?

Though early on in the investigation police asked for anyone with information related to the shooting to come forward, Martin’s friend did not — because she was highly emotional, Martin’s mother told TODAY Wednesday.

today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46805726/ns/today-today_news/t/trayvon-martins-parents-trust-friends-phone-call/#.UAa5bHIRCUE

So now the question is, how long after the shooting did she wait until she talked to the police?

It is hard to tell, based on news reports, but she does not show up in the news until around March 20th. Martin was shot Feb 26, almost a month earlier.

Was she hospitalized for that long? Did she go to school during that time? At what point did she cease being “highly emotional” and start moving forward? Those are questions that will need to be asked at trial. Because, OPINION ALERT, I would wonder if she waited so long because she was trying to get her story straight.

 

[scipio337]

When the FBI AND the Justice Department both show as much interest in investigating black on white “hate crime” (like what is going on rampantly in Chicago) or even better…black on black hate crime, then I will give this dog and pony show a little more credibility.

There have been 212 murders in Chicago since February.

homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2012/

How many do you think received a local police, state dept of law enforcement, grand jury, special prosecutor, Justice Dept AND FBI investigations?

 

[eternalrest]

NO, it absolutely is not, and I’m not sure why you would make that huge leap of interpretation.

Scott is simply saying this case is receiving an inordinate amount of attention BECAUSE OF RACE, as opposed to the much more common other examples given.

I would question why you don’t consider the others crime types Scott mentioned also worthy of such high scrutiny.

Let’s let Scott answer the question. Scott seemed to be speaking for himself, as evidenced by using the word I will give this dog and pony show a little more credibility, and he said that what it would take for him to do so is for the Justice department and FBI to investigate those other racial compositions of crimes more. Specifically, when the Justice department and FBI investigates more crimes with a black victim/black perpetrator or a white victim/black perpetrator then Scott will give this specific case more credibility.

 

[eternalrest]

There have been 212 murders in Chicago since February.

homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2012/

How many do you think received a local police, state dept of law enforcement, grand jury, special prosecutor, Justice Dept AND FBI investigations?

How many of these murders took place where the local police refused to interview witnesses who testified against the murderer, the former sheriff/federal agent instead took the murderer inside of his house to shelter him, and where the murderer and the former police chief exchange pleasantries via email about another similar case where an innocent homeless man is beaten but the person who beats him, the son of a police lieutenant, receives no charges?

 

[Dawnia]

And it’s begun…:slapfight:

 

[maryjk]

How many of these murders took place where the local police refused to interview witnesses who testified against the murderer, the former sheriff/federal agent instead took the murderer inside of his house to shelter him, and where the murderer and the former police chief exchange pleasantries via email about another similar case where an innocent homeless man is beaten but the person who beats him, the son of a police lieutenant, receives no charges?

Still waiting for evidence that the police refused to interview a witness, rather than the potential witness refused to be interviewed.

Also looking for evidence that a former police chief took a murderer, into his house to hide him from the police. Or did a friend house someone that was being threatened? When did Zimmerman move into the home of his friend? Was it before or after threats were made, causing an innocent couple to have to move out of their house?

 

[He_Man]

The standard of proof you are asking NOW for is only for God himself and is nothing more than a trick question. In a law court, there is only proof “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

It is clear that the Sanford police department refused to even interview a witness with evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s story. Sharpton (and others) created national attention for the case. Non-violent protesting went on by others. As a result of peaceful protesting against this injustice, the FBI and Justice departments launched separate investigations where they “subpoenaed” the girl instead of ignoring her. A 100% change in the way that the case was treated due to nonviolent peaceful protest.

Well, at least you admit your “evidence” was a farce, just like the President’s stimulus baloney is.

You can’t prove those sorts of claims, and they are not tried in court anyway, to your point. The court will decide if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. they aren’t going to rule on whether or not the case would have gone to trial is Al Sharpton hadn’t gotten involved.

Again, other than you conceding my point about making unprovable statements (despite claiming you had already offered proof for an unprovable statement a few posts prior), I am not sure what you are trying to say in your defense any more.

 

[scipio337]

Still waiting for evidence that the police refused to interview a witness, rather than the potential witness refused to be interviewed.

Also looking for evidence that a former police chief took a murderer, into his house to hide him from the police. Or did a friend house someone that was being threatened? When did Zimmerman move into the home of his friend? Was it before or after threats were made, causing an innocent couple to have to move out of their house?

Generalities and bare assertions rule.

I’m sure this is the “where the murderer and the former police chief exchange pleasantries via email about another similar case where an innocent homeless man is beaten but the person who beats him, the son of a police lieutenant, receives no charges” referenced, but unfortunately, does more to show race as ABSOLUTELY NO motivating factor in this case:

Zimmerman Accused Police of 2010 Cover-Up
A year before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, the neighborhood watch volunteer blasted the local department at a public forum.

A year before the neighborhood watch volunteer shot and killed Trayvon Martin in what he says was self-defense, Zimmerman stood before a Sanford city forum and accused the local police force of covering up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer.

slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/05/24/george_zimmerman_criticised_sanford_police_before_arrest_in_trayvon_martin_shooting.html

miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

Hmmm. Not exactly what I would call “pleasantries” unless all public lambastings for a coverup and gross negligence are considered “pleasant”

 

[FromTheAshes777]

There’s a lot I would do and/or give to be able to have this trial occur…oh say…TOMMORROW. I’m really ready for this whole thing to be over so we don’t have to hear another news story about what George Zimmerman did or didn’t do when he was 5 or 10 or in high school, or last week, or whatever.

The media needs to stop turning this thing into a circus…it’s really crazy that they expect people to take them seriously when they do this sort of “reporting”. Also I think a lot of our justice system is also being turned into an embarrasment. The court of public opinion should not decide this man’s guilt or innocence.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

So to you, this boils down to nothing more than race. Zimmerman looks white. Trayvon Martin is black. Its a white on black crime, and thus it is not worthy of investigation. If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was black or Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was white, THEN it would be worthy of investigation. Is that a correct statement of your beliefs on this case?

I could care less if Zimmerman was green and Martin was fuscia. I am concerned about the facts of the case, and the ones available to the public and disclosed in the charging statement do no carry the weight of second degree murder.

This was ONLY brought to a head because of race pimps Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, who were so “on the money” with their pushing of rape charges against the Duke Lacrosse team.