Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

  • Thread starter Thread starter rlg94086
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
kelvinf said:
What is clear is that, this wouldn’t have occured if Zimmerman minded his business. He is the cause of the effect.
Click to expand...
That’s the part I’m unable to wrap my head around. How people on either side of this issue cannot seem to agree on this central fact: Zimmerman had already done his duty as a citizen by reporting his observations (such as they were). It is not illegal to not mind one’s business, but like any other situation in life, when a person’s decisions end with someone losing their life, there must be accountability for said decisions.
 
vz71 said:
You are unaware of the lacerations on the back of Zimmerman’s head?
Of the broken nose?
Click to expand...
I am aware he had some injuries, though I’m not aware of the evidence on how he got them. -]How does that relate to your response to my post?/-]
 
rlg94086 said:
The problem is that the “mind your own business” attitude leads to a lot of crime, because people think they shouldn’t get involved and just leave it to the police. If you “mind your own business” when you see a suspicious person in your neighborhood, and your neighbor gets robbed or killed, did you do the right thing?

Certainly, I don’t see that Zimmerman did anything wrong, as long as he didn’t threaten Martin. If it is true Martin “felt” threatened by being followed, then beating first and asking questions later isn’t necessarily the best action to take…*if that’s what he did. *

There are too many “if’s” in all of this guesswork.
Click to expand...
The mind your business comes in after he felt his car and started following Trayvon. He cared about his neighbourhood and rightly called the police when he found someone suspicious (suspicious because he was walking under the rain…, which is crazy). He did his part and was supposed to let others do their part–the dispatcher and the police.

It’s like calling the firefighters and letting them do their job. Trying to play a firefighter when you aren’t one is dangerous. Again, he caused the effect.
 
vz71 said:
Oversimplification.

One could just as easily blame Trayvon for attacking someone without provocation.
Or the drug use that put Trayvon in that city to begin with.
Or the repeated crimes in the area.
Or the dispatcher for not acting fast enough.
Or the rain.
Or any one of a hundred other facts.
Click to expand...
Trayvon attacked someone without provocation?

So, if I smoke pot, live in a crime-ridden area, have a slow police dispatcher, or go out on a rainy night, it’s okay to kill me and blame it on God?
 
vz71 said:
One could just as easily blame Trayvon for attacking someone without provocation.
Click to expand...
Source?
vz71 said:
Or the drug use that put Trayvon in that city to begin with.
Or the repeated crimes in the area.
Or the dispatcher for not acting fast enough.
Or the rain.
Or any one of a hundred other facts.
Click to expand...
So that’s justification for his death?
 
vz71 said:
No, I am disputing Trayvon was being chased immedietely before the attack.
I also dispute that Trayvon was aware of the gun.
Click to expand...
He was being chased - that’s not in dispute. When the chase ended in relation to how the attack begun, is a matter of how believable you find Zimmerman.

How can you dispute that he was aware of the gun when Zimmerman claims he was reaching for it? We don’t know when he became aware of the gun but if I had to speculate, I’d think it would be sometime before he was allegedly consumed with cracking Z’s head open.
 
kelvinf said:
The mind your business comes in after he felt his car and started following Trayvon. He cared about his neighbourhood and rightly called the police when he found someone suspicious (suspicious because he was walking under the rain…, which is crazy). He did his part and was supposed to let others do their part–the dispatcher and the police.

It’s like calling the firefighters and letting them do their job. Trying to play a firefighter when you aren’t one is dangerous. Again, he caused the effect.
Click to expand...
You are adding some assumption in there. Yes, he left his car to follow Trayvon Martin, so he wouldn’t lose him. IIRC correctly, he even confronted Martin by asking him what he is doing (?). Even that isn’t doing the police’s job. If it is true that Zimmerman went back to his vehicle and Martin followed him, then the follower became the followed. That is one of the explanations I’ve heard…not sure of its validity.

At any rate, whatever reason Zimmerman thought Martin suspicious, he was apparently trying to keep tabs on Martin, so he would know know where he was when the police arrived. It may have been a bad idea, but it is neither illegal nor doing police work. It is absolute Alice in Wonderland reasoning to conclude that Zimmerman’s “not minding his own business” voids his argument for self-defense. It would be the same as saying, “well, if Trayvon Martin hadn’t been outside that night, nothing would have happened.” 🤷
 
rlg94086 said:
You are adding some assumption in there. Yes, he left his car to follow Trayvon Martin, so he wouldn’t lose him. IIRC correctly, he even confronted Martin by asking him what he is doing (?). Even that isn’t doing the police’s job. If it is true that Zimmerman went back to his vehicle and Martin followed him, then the follower became the followed. That is one of the explanations I’ve heard…not sure of its validity.

At any rate, whatever reason Zimmerman thought Martin suspicious, he was apparently trying to keep tabs on Martin, so he would know know where he was when the police arrived. It may have been a bad idea, but it is neither illegal nor doing police work. It is absolute Alice in Wonderland reasoning to conclude that Zimmerman’s “not minding his own business” voids his argument for self-defense. It would be the same as saying, “well, if Trayvon Martin hadn’t been outside that night, nothing would have happened.” 🤷
Click to expand...
Well, Travyon is not here to tell us what happened. What we know for sure is that he was going back home, talking with his girlfriend…Zimmerman was in his car. If Travyon attacked Zimmerman first, something definitely caused it. What we also know for sure is that Zimmerman left his car and followed Martin.

The other details are Zimmerman’s version and he is incredible! That’s the issue.
 
kelvinf said:
Well, Travyon is not here to tell us what happened. What we know for sure is that he was going back home, talking with his girlfriend…Zimmerman was in his car. If Travyon attacked Zimmerman first, something definitely caused it. What we also know for sure is that Zimmerman left his car and followed Martin.

The other details are Zimmerman’s version and he is incredible! That’s the issue.
Click to expand...
Exactly. He is seeking to cast Martin as the instigator, but we have no objective evidence that this is true. I don’t think you can instigate a confrontation and then claim SYG, so he has ample motive to lie and he has now shown that when he is under pressure, the truth suffers. He deserves a fair trial - what he doesn’t deserve is some pedestal of victimhood and righteousness.
 
vz71 said:
There was a witness.
Click to expand...
A witness to what? Did the witness have an x-ray machine or is he/she a trained health care provider? Who documented those injuries and how long after the alleged beating?
 
vz71 said:
Zimmerman’s own testimony.
Click to expand...
Zimmerman said that he was attacked without provocation, so we know that Zimmerman was attacked without provocation? Zimmerman also said he was broke…and more recently that the whole thing was “God’s plan”.
No, but all are contributing factors.
It simply shows the folly of trying to blame a single action for the entire incident.
Click to expand...
Contributing factors to the stupidity of playing neighborhood vigilante?
 
seekerz said:
He was being chased - that’s not in dispute. When the chase ended in relation to how the attack begun, is a matter of how believable you find Zimmerman.
Click to expand...
Actually, it is in dispute, and there is no evidence except Zimmerman’s own testimony for what was going on immedietely before the attack.

Zimmerman claims he was on his way back to the car.
There is no evidence or testimony to indicate this is not true.
seekerz said:
How can you dispute that he was aware of the gun when Zimmerman claims he was reaching for it? We don’t know when he became aware of the gun but if I had to speculate, I’d think it would be sometime before he was allegedly consumed with cracking Z’s head open.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence to tell us when he was aware of the weapon.
But if we are to believe Trayvon knew of it in advance, then we are forced to believe he was attacking an armed individual with nothing more then his fists.

I wanted to give Trayvon a little more credit for intelligence then that.
 
kelvinf said:
Well, Travyon is not here to tell us what happened. What we know for sure is that he was going back home, talking with his girlfriend…Zimmerman was in his car. If Travyon attacked Zimmerman first, something definitely caused it. What we also know for sure is that Zimmerman left his car and followed Martin.

The other details are Zimmerman’s version and he is incredible! That’s the issue.
Click to expand...
Exactly. We don’t have Trayvon to tell us what happened. To say that “something definitely cause it,” is true, but it wasn’t necessarily Zimmerman that caused it. It is possible that Martin was pissed off and followed Zimmerman back to his vehicle and attacked him. It is possible Zimmerman threatened him, and Martin responded. It is also possible Martin was actually out for nefarious reasons. Who knows? 🤷

Zimmerman’s past character does make it difficult to know for certain what happened. But, his past actions do not necessarily mean that he is to be convicted of second degree murder without evidence.
 
vz71 said:
Zimmerman’s own testimony.

No, but all are contributing factors.
It simply shows the folly of trying to blame a single action for the entire incident.
Click to expand...
That’s the thing. This single action is what led to the death of Travyon. Again, we know that he bought candies and was simply going back home before Zimmerman stepped in.
 
vz71 said:
Actually, it is in dispute, and there is no evidence except Zimmerman’s own testimony for what was going on immedietely before the attack.

Zimmerman claims he was on his way back to the car.
There is no evidence or testimony to indicate this is not true.

There is no evidence to tell us when he was aware of the weapon.
But if we are to believe Trayvon knew of it in advance, then we are forced to believe he was attacking an armed individual with nothing more then his fists.

I wanted to give Trayvon a little more credit for intelligence then that.
Click to expand...
You seem to have information that has been withheld from the rest of us. Zimmerman has admitted to following Trayvon, so I’m not sure how you dispute that he was being chased.

Tell me, how does Zimmerman’s account become ‘evidence’? Or does evidence have a different definition for you as well?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top