Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[vz71]

Zimmerman never claimed to be on Neighborhood Watch. He never even claimed to have identified himself as part of the Watch.

You have witness testimony to this?

Trayvon was killed because a loony coward, in his own words, was intent on preventing ‘them’ from always getting away.

Please provide the specific quote in which Zimmerman indicated this.

The story of the fight? You can believe it if you like. Personally, I’d expect to see rain fall up before I’d expect a frightened kid (according to his girlfriend) stop running away from a stranger’s direction and turn around to attack him without a weapon of any kind. I’m just kind of partial to commonsense over the word of people intimately associated with perjury.

Where is the evidence that he was running anywhere?
Did the girlfriend specify he was? How would she know? Was she there?
Listening on a cell phone does not provide eye witness of much at all.

 

[seekerz]

We know nothing of a ‘vague fear’ from anything reported thus far.

What resulted in the life being lost was the struggle that ensued.

And the struggle just materialized out of thin air?

Surprisingly, no one here seems to have yet suggested that Martin had a suddenly break with reality and went temporarily insane, but several posters seem to thing that the innate fight-or-flight response of the human being can suddenly and seamlessly morph from one to the other…How’s that work?

 

[seekerz]

In the accounts I read, his girlfriend indicated he wasn’t running away – even after she had asked him to… and I won’t restate my concerns about the running story – I addressed those in post 297. If he didn’t stop running or was that frightened why didn’t he make it home?

Why indeed. Might it have anything to do with having an armed pursuer in the vicinity of his person? I wasn’t there, but I’m not taking Zimmerman’s word for anything more than the 2cents it’s worth…

 

[vz71]

And the struggle just materialized out of thin air?

No, it resulted when one person attacked the other.

Surprisingly, no one here seems to have yet suggested that Martin had a suddenly break with reality and went temporarily insane, but several posters seem to thing that the innate fight-or-flight response of the human being can suddenly and seamlessly morph from one to the other…How’s that work?

You are assuming Trayvon was scared.
Fight or Flight only takes place in fear situations.
It is also a viable theory that Trayvon realized Zimmerman was there, and decided he was going to act out his aggressions.
We do not really know what was going on in his head.

Perhaps you can explain how you can be so sure of Trayvon’s feelings at the time.

 

[maryjk]

Why indeed. Might it have anything to do with having an armed pursuer in the vicinity of his person? I wasn’t there, but I’m not taking Zimmerman’s word for anything more than the 2cents it’s worth…

And yet you are taking Martin’s girlfriend’s word as gospel.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The break-ins were not brought up by me. Read the thread. What was brought up by me is that it makes no sense for a kid who was running away from Zimmerman’s direction, to suddenly change course and attack a stranger unarmed. From the viewpoint of someone who shows an interest in self defense and weapons and all of that, don’t you find that supposed change (from running away to confrontation) even the least bit odd?

Can you explain anything about why teenagers do what they do? Most teenagers I know have a “God complex” and think that they are both immortal AND that the world owes them something.

 

[vz71]

And yet you are taking Martin’s girlfriend’s word as gospel.

Taking any testimony over any other without considering where the evidence leads betrays one sidedness.

 

[seekerz]

And yet you are taking Martin’s girlfriend’s word as gospel.

Did the girlfriend get mixed up in any kind of perjury mess, that you know of? It’s called credibility…

 

[seekerz]

No, it resulted when one person attacked the other.

You are assuming Trayvon was scared.
Fight or Flight only takes place in fear situations.
It is also a viable theory that Trayvon realized Zimmerman was there, and decided he was going to act out his aggressions.
We do not really know what was going on in his head.

Perhaps you can explain how you can be so sure of Trayvon’s feelings at the time.

His girlfriend seems to indicate that he was scared. If we’re assuming who attacked who, we can also assume that she’s telling the truth.

 

[seekerz]

Can you explain anything about why teenagers do what they do? Most teenagers I know have a “God complex” and think that they are both immortal AND that the world owes them something.

One could just as easily substitute ‘neighborhood vigilantes’ for ‘teenagers’…who understands why anybody does anything really stupid and irresponsible? None of us, I’d venture to guess.

 

[kelvinf]

And yet you are taking Martin’s girlfriend’s word as gospel.

Taking any testimony over any other without considering where the evidence leads betrays one sidedness.

The huge difference between this lady and Zimmerman is that, Zimmerman has proven to be a liar in the eyes of the whole world.

Trayvon’s family insists the voice carrying for help was that of Trayvon while Zimmerman’s family thinks otherwise. The FBI can’t determine it. Two independent audio experts say the yelling wasn’t coming from Zimmerman. However, I remain neutral as to who was yelling, but I can’t trust Zimmerman’s and his wife’s take on this because they have proven to be incredible. (!)

 

[mtbender]

His girlfriend seems to indicate that he was scared. If we’re assuming who attacked who, we can also assume that she’s telling the truth.

Not sure how relevant all that may be though… nothing the girlfriend says really contradicts what Zimmerman says or the account he gives of the events. In fact, most of it is speculation as to what occurred.

If we take her account to be true all we know is Martin was he was wearing his hoodie, he was not running, he initiated conversation with Zimmerman, and the line went dead at some point. The rest of it is all speculation on her part…

 

[mtbender]

The huge difference between this lady and Zimmerman is that, Zimmerman has proven to be a liar in the eyes of the whole world.

Trayvon’s family insists the voice carrying for help was that of Trayvon while Zimmerman’s family thinks otherwise. The FBI can’t determine it. Two independent audio experts say the yelling wasn’t coming from Zimmerman. However, I remain neutral as to who was yelling, but I can’t trust Zimmerman’s and his wife’s take on this because they have proven to be incredible. (!)

Just want to point out that both those audio experts have been challenged by their peers… not sure where that leaves them creditability wise – but I think we can say their finding are inconclusive at best.

Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis.

Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts.

“There is no history of, or data on, the comparison of a questioned scream to a known speech sample,” Wayman said.

Dr. Philip Rose of the Australian National University told TheDC that scientific experts refer to Primeau’s method as “naïve voice recognition.” His influential 2002 book Forensic Speaker Identification draws a major distinction between naïve and “technical forensics” voice recognition.

“Naïve voice recognition is so prone to error that it is acknowledged that it is worthless as evidence,” Rose said via email.

dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/ce-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/

 

[kelvinf]

Just want to point out that both those audio experts have been challenged by their peers… not sure where that leaves them creditability wise – but I think we can say their finding are inconclusive at best.

dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/ce-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/

Yes, I am aware that others hold different opinions. Just like different witnesses say different things regarding who was on top. Again, I remain neutral on such.

 

[vz71]

His girlfriend seems to indicate that he was scared.

It would appear we (including you) do not know.

 

[seekerz]

Not sure how relevant all that may be though… nothing the girlfriend says really contradicts what Zimmerman says or the account he gives of the events. In fact, most of it is speculation as to what occurred.

If we take her account to be true all we know is Martin was he was wearing his hoodie, he was not running, he initiated conversation with Zimmerman, and the line went dead at some point. The rest of it is all speculation on her part…

She indicates that he was aware of Zimmerman following him and that she, at least, was concerned for his safety. Zimmerman’s story of Trayvon running sounds believable given the circumstances, (though it does not quite gel with the girlfriend’s account that he refused to run when she suggested it) until the point where Travyon seems to have had a sudden change of strategy and proceeded to threaten his life. That’s the part where Zimmerman loses me as a listener…“you’re going to die tonight”? What’s that about? Sounds to me more like a plea of insistence that he had reason to fear for his life, than it sounds like anything an unarmed teenager would confront an able-bodied unknown male with.

 

[seekerz]

It would appear we (including you) do not know.

If we had to exclude everything we did not know, there would be very little left to discuss other than that a kid is dead and a man admitted to pulling the trigger.

 

[maryjk]

Did the girlfriend get mixed up in any kind of perjury mess, that you know of? It’s called credibility…

You mean the girlfriend that didn’t call the police until she got her story straight?

No, I have no idea why she didn’t call the police or even Martin’s parents. I don’t know if it was to get her story straight, But if we are going to take everything she says at face value, we have to remember that she waited quite some time before she came forward. Why?

I know she was upset enough to go to the hospital the night of the shooting. But that doesn’t explain why her parents didn’t contact the police. Or why she wait so long after that to contact them. To me, that puts some questions on her credibility.

 

[seekerz]

You mean the girlfriend that didn’t call the police until she got her story straight?

No, I have no idea why she didn’t call the police or even Martin’s parents. I don’t know if it was to get her story straight, But if we are going to take everything she says at face value, we have to remember that she waited quite some time before she came forward. Why?

I know she was upset enough to go to the hospital the night of the shooting. But that doesn’t explain why her parents didn’t contact the police. Or why she wait so long after that to contact them. To me, that puts some questions on her credibility.

Why should the delay reflect on her credibility? If anything it should reflect on the quality of the police investigation, but I don’t see their credibility being questioned.

I put myself in the teen’s shoes and my immediate thought is that she might not have told her parents if the relationship was not one they knew/approved of. That’s the most common reason I’m aware of for girls not talking about their boyfriends to adults. In any event, delaying to come forward is hardly equivalent to suborning perjury…

When I was growing up, the mere mention of the word ‘police’ was enough to make people want to distance themselves as far as possible from an incident. Nothing unusual in people not falling over themselves to contact police.

 

[maryjk]

Why should the delay reflect on her credibility? If anything it should reflect on the quality of the police investigation, but I don’t see their credibility being questioned.

Until they got an order for his phone records, they would have had no idea he was even on the phone. But she knew. And she claims she knew what he was thinking. But her solution was to keep it to herself.

So yes, my first thought was, is she trying to get her story straight.

I put myself in the teen’s shoes and my immediate thought is that she might not have told her parents if the relationship was not one they knew/approved of. That’s the most common reason I’m aware of for girls not talking about their boyfriends to adults. In any event, delaying to come forward is hardly equivalent to suborning perjury…

According to her mother, the girlfriend was so upset that she was rushed to the hospital.

Putting myself in her shoes, I would have wanted to help the police find out what happened. It would have been worth whatever trouble I might have been in with my parents to be sure to help my friend, boy or not.

When I was growing up, the mere mention of the word ‘police’ was enough to make people want to distance themselves as far as possible from an incident. Nothing unusual in people not falling over themselves to contact police.

Sorry, I was raised to help when I could. Not to hide from the police. It is hard for me to understand someone that would raise their child to distance themselves from reporting something to the police. How do you expect the police to help if you won’t help them??