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1ke
Guest
That’s a translation. In some translations it is translated “go abroad”
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Krisdun
Guest
Why would a 21st century wife require permission from her husband to step out of the house in order to drive around town in her big 4x4 car?
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Convert3
Guest
Because he needs to make sure her ankles aren’t visible! 
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Bill_B_NY
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
I don’t see many, if any at all, examples in the gospels of beliefs based on culture. The teaching in the gospels is much more timeless than say, a Catechism, or even the New Testament letters.
But when I hear people say that something is an old concept and that it could be ignored, it’s usually because cultural circumstances have changed and X no longer is relevant. It’s not necessarily because it’s just old.
For example, it used to be common, for people to get married and have children at the age of 14 or even younger. But just because being able to bear children at a young age is a biological truth doesn’t mean that people in the U.S. today should live that way.
The point that the Roman Catechism was trying to make was poorly articulated, IMO. The point has since been clarified.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
I think it is usually because they do not like it.
Jesus’ teaching on divorce. “In the beginning, He made them male and female”. Most Catholics don’t even believe those words of Our Lord. Instead, they claim that we evolved from apes. The LBGT movement believes we choose our sexual identity. The man who marries another after divorcing his wife commits adultery. That is rejected by many Catholics - and virtually the entire world outside of the Faith. They claim it is outdated. The entire New Testament itself is rejected by people for being outdated.
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Rau
Guest
Unless you know the mind of God, how our bodies come to be, and the fact of our design as creatures of two possible sexes, need not be in conflict. Whether God dropped Adam and Eve onto earth out of nothing, or Genesis is to be read less literally, has nothing to do with the observation that (biological defects aside) we come as 2 sexes.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
I am not going to engage in an evolution debate here.
But for Rau’s benefit, and anyone else’s …
So, Mr. Miller thinks that Jesus’ statement “He made the male and female” is outdated, or at least wrong.
But for Rau’s benefit, and anyone else’s …
Ken Miller is a Catholic. He is an evolutionist. He thinks that God did not know what evolution would create. Mankind was an accident.
So, Mr. Miller thinks that Jesus’ statement “He made the male and female” is outdated, or at least wrong.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
I know some young Catholic women who would accept and practice that teaching of the Roman Catechism. Traditionalists. They wouldn’t think anything of doing that. They’re more open to change. The older generation - of course not. But they’re not about to get married, so it’s irrelevant.
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Rau
Guest
Why do we read of a talking serpent? Why does the Church see no need to read Genesis literally?
It’s not for me to demand a particular meaning and mode of “creation”
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JerryZ
Guest
This really made me chuckle, when that Catechism was published the possibility of any one going out to lunch were close to zero.
People would go out to the inn for a cup of wine or beer but eating was done at home unless one was traveling. People lived day to day back then.
Peace!
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Newhills
Guest
It’s a shame that it hasn’t changed for the better.
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Mrchatsworth
Guest
Oh yes! The catechism of Trent! Women not leaving home without permission was the main reason I chose Catholicism! It’s a true foundation of faith for any real Catholic!
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LilyM
Guest
Our Lady clearly went out and about - starting with her visit to Elizabeth. There is no record of.her ever asking permission of St Joseph or any other man.
Like all authority, husbands are to be obeyed in all things that are at least reasonable.and not sinful. God gave all women intellect and conscience.to guide them.in such matters.
Some husbands, unfortunately, domineer and are overly controlling of their wives in a way that is utterly unreasonable.and/or sinfully abusive.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
That is true and consistent with the Faith. In many societies today, a Catholic wife will not assume the freedom to go out without permission of husband. America is a liberalized, feminist nation so people find it impossible to accept the concept. Additionally, it is in some ways safer for a woman to travel alone in America than in other places. Although …
So perhaps Americans do not have the best understanding of marriage and the old Catechism may be more correct than some would like to admit.
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Lea101
Guest
We’re talking about a wife leaving the house because she wants to grab a cup of coffee or something without asking for permission. Do you honestly think she needs to ask for permission (assuming that the kids, if any, will be fine)?
I live in southeast Asia, and I have an Indian background. Even Muslim wives don’t typically ask their spouses permission to go out for some trivial reason here. Most husbands and wives will just inform each other. I’m actually curious about what cultures you’re talking about. I could think of certain relatives who have to ask for permission over little things like this, but honestly it has nothing to do with Catholicism because these women (that I know of) were victims of domestic abuse.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
Agreed. It cannot be discussed calmly here.
Men who have lost their wife to cheating will see this topic in a different way. I know several good men who have suffered this. Unrestricted freedom, liberalism, feminism, sexualization of culture, female power, anti-family, anti-child - a lot of factors.
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Bill_B_NY
Guest
I have found it in several cultures. Eastern Europe, Africa, South American countries, Mexico, Philippines. It’s somewhat normal. Many wives do not have a car - they don’t just leave the kids to go to Starbucks any time they want. Or even if there are no kids - they don’t just wander around.
You’re wanting to take this to the most trivial level and then get outraged.
But I think you understand the point. It’s not a big problem. “Honey, is it ok if I go … wherever, tomorrow morning?” That is respectful. It builds trust. It shows honor to one’s husband. It’s a two-way street - he takes closer responsibility. He is involved.
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