Wives Needing Permission to Leave the Home?

[Newhills]

Where? It’s interesting that this is what you get from these posts, when the posts here are all about both partners being able to check in with each other to see if their plans are not upsetting to the other. Even the more traditional posters here, like @Elizabeth3, has shared how her marriage is set up.

I don’t disagree with most of what she said. She’s probably saying much the same as I am but she phrased it better.

There was somebody posting that their wife wants to go away, he doesn’t want her to given the current flu situation yet his wife is going anyway. Wrong on many levels.

Almost every post in the first half of the thread is along similar lines.

 

[LilyM]

Lea101:

Where? It’s interesting that this is what you get from these posts, when the posts here are all about both partners being able to check in with each other to see if their plans are not upsetting to the other. Even the more traditional posters here, like @Elizabeth3, has shared how her marriage is set up.

I don’t disagree with most of what she said. She’s probably saying much the same as I am but she phrased it better.

There was somebody posting that their wife wants to go away, he doesn’t want her to given the current flu situation yet his wife is going anyway. Wrong on many levels.

Almost every post in the first half of the thread is along similar lines.

Firstly, the wife is not literally a slave or dependent, so in such a situation a husband cannot literally forbid her.

Secondly, remember we are hearing from.his point of view only. If she were telling her side, it could be that there is a family emergency or something that he has not mentioned and that he is in fact being completely unreasonable.

Of course it is just as likely that he isn’t but in this case we simply can’t know.

Husbandly authority is not dictatorship. And wives, like any good citizens, are entitled to a little non-violent ‘civil disobedience’ where they feel that authority is being used in an unreasonable or unjust way.

 

[Newhills]

Firstly, the wife is not literally a slave or dependent, so in such a situation a husband cannot literally forbid her.

My wife is not a slave. I did not state otherwise.

In a proper marriage, yes, as head of the household I can literally forbid her.

 

[Newhills]

Secondly, remember we are hearing from.his point of view only. If she were telling her side, it could be that there is a family emergency or something that he has not mentioned and that he is in fact being completely unreasonable.

Of course it is just as likely that he isn’t but in this case we simply can’t know.

So on the assumption that he is telling the truth - what is your opinion on this matter?

 

[JulianN]

In a proper marriage, yes, as head of the household I can literally forbid her.

If this works for both of you, great. But it’s certainly not a “proper” marriage for everyone.

 

[Newhills]

Your average man isn’t too caught up in power dynamics and validation to the point where his wife not asking his permission would affect his manhood and authority in the house.

Unfortunately your “average” man in today’s society is not a good measuring stick.

It’s nothing to do with power dynamics or validation anyway. It’s a natural order. When humans try to fight or resist a natural order then it causes many flow on effects & problems.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It’s a natural order. When humans try to fight or resist a natural order then it causes many flow on effects & problems.

But it works just fine for these other people, I think you are talking about excess which everyone obviously disagrees with.

 

[Newhills]

I’m not convinced that it works fine.

There is bound to be an underlying resentment.

 

[Newhills]

And offended people flagging posts…

I’m done in this thread.

Enjoy the discussion with everybody who shares the same opinion as you do.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

There is bound to be an underlying resentment

They would have mentioned it then since some males posted their experiences.

And offended people flagging posts…

You kind of insulted someone so that’s probably why.

 

[on_the_hill]

less like she’s your wife and more like she’s your teenage daughter.

Do you have any teenage daughters?

 

[TC3033]

My wife is not a slave. I did not state otherwise.

In a proper marriage, yes, as head of the household I can literally forbid her.

Sorry @Newhills, these are mutually exclusive statements. How can one not be a slave, but on the other hand not have free will to leave their own home or go out.

It’s one thing, if my wife says she’s going out with the girls and I say “No…Johnny has a hockey game in Minnetonka and Jane has dance in Edina, I can’t be in two places at once” (I would fully expect my wife to say the same thing).

but it’s another if she says “I’m going out tonight”…and the husband says “no…because I don’t want you to”…and she complies. Sorry, I don’t think that’s a healthy marriage… I’m an “average man” who’s a darn good husband and father and I can’t think of a marriage where my wife isn’t an equal partner.

 

[Elizabeth3]

In a proper marriage, yes, as head of the household I can literally forbid her.

I wonder how that squares with Casti Connubii…

“This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband’s every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is not customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs.”

I wonder how “forbidding” an adult woman would even be enforced? Would there be consequences? I don’t see that going over real well at all.

 

[JulianN]

It’s a natural order. When humans try to fight or resist a natural order then it causes many flow on effects & problems.

Actually, it’s not. Which is probably why so many of us are able to speak about long, successful marriages that are not arranged this way. You do you —but don’t assume it’s right for everyone.

 

[Freddy]

Newhills has left the conversation. Maybe his his wife thought he was spending too much time on the computer.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

And offended people flagging posts…

I’m done in this thread.

Enjoy the discussion with everybody who shares the same opinion as you do.

I really wish people would stop throwing flags left and right. @Newhills is in the minority but he hasn’t been inappropriate.

 

[babochka]

Newhills:

And offended people flagging posts…

I’m done in this thread.

Enjoy the discussion with everybody who shares the same opinion as you do.

I really wish people would stop throwing flags left and right. @Newhills is in the minority but he hasn’t been inappropriate.

I agree. Some good and longtime posters have been banned without explanation through the flagging system.

 

[twf]

In a proper marriage, yes, as head of the household I can literally forbid her.

This, though, is a potential major issue. For centuries, Christian men were very quick to assert their absolute authority over the household. In practice, this often led to terrible abuses, where many (not all) women were essentially rendered into children completely dependent upon their husband with almost no agency…or even worse, domestic abuse was often left unchecked as no one would challenge the authority / word of the man.
Yes, the husband does have true authority over his household…but what so many men, down through the centuries, have failed to remember is St. Paul’s accompanying command: love your wives as Christ loved the Church. If their authority is not exercised in a way that is self-sacrificial, it is an abuse of authority. If you “absolutely forbid her”, and you are not motivated by true perfect charity, you sin.
“No, I forbid you from visiting your mother as I need you to make me dinner.” That would be selfish, not flowing from perfect self-sacrificial charity, and thus sinful on the part of the husband.

Your authority as a husband has ONE purpose only…and to deviate from this purpose is to sin…you exercise authority for the benefit of your wife and children, for their salvation and their wellbeing…anytime you exercise authority for selfish reasons, you sin…simple as that. And the latter has been the case in marriage after marriage time and time again throughout history.

 

[Adamek]

This would have nothing to do with asking permission to go for a quick jog. Your average man isn’t too caught up in power dynamics and validation to the point where his wife not asking his permission would affect his manhood and authority in the house.

Your post says a lot about what an “average woman’s” attitude toward men and her husband is. Wow.

 

[Lea101]

Your post says a lot about what an “average woman’s” attitude toward men and her husband is. Wow

You can be as inflammatory as you want, my reply to that post is as clear as it can be. If anything, it shows I think highly of the average man and not so highly of men who crave authority to the point of needing to be asked permission for a jog