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ac_claire
Guest
You too!*whatever do you mean, claire?
Nice chatting with you, though, as always. :hug1:*
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adopted_heir
Guest
I hope I’m not coming across as “that lady” in this thread. I know I’ve gotten a little hot under the collar when I shouldn’t have, but I AM always right, so it gets annoying when others don’t see it right off. 
I guess what I’m saying in my head is that I’m very insistent on these things because that’s what works; I’m a big believer in checking the fruit on the tree, you know? I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum, so I can be kind of gung-ho because I don’t want to see anyone else’s marriage turn out like my parents’.
But since we are kind of going in circles at this point, is it safe to assume the conversation is at an end?
I guess what I’m saying in my head is that I’m very insistent on these things because that’s what works; I’m a big believer in checking the fruit on the tree, you know? I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum, so I can be kind of gung-ho because I don’t want to see anyone else’s marriage turn out like my parents’.But since we are kind of going in circles at this point, is it safe to assume the conversation is at an end?
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ac_claire
Guest
Probably, unless the (one-post) OP ever comes back lol. This one took on a life of it’s own.I hope I’m not coming across as “that lady” in this thread. I know I’ve gotten a little hot under the collar when I shouldn’t have, but I AM always right, so it gets annoying when others don’t see it right off.
But since we are kind of going in circles at this point, is it safe to assume the conversation is at an end?
No, I think you’ve been the best in this thread a.h.
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adopted_heir
Guest
Thanks I had fun! See you around.
I had fun! See you around.
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Mdybiblegal
Guest
I have read all the replies and prayed about it. Thanks so much for replying and sharing your understanding with me.
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Angelo_Michael
Guest
All believers are to be as one with the Father, even as Christ is one with the Father (John 17). It is the Law and the prophets that state that we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. One interpretation is that when God created Adam, and Eve from Adam’s rib, that she therefor belongs to him. But Adam never belonged to himself but rather to the Lord and it was the Lord who took what was His own and made Eve with it, who is also His. Christ says, “all things that the Father has are mine.” and “be not called, ‘Lord’, and, ‘Father’.” The relationship between a husband and wife, between male and female, should be as one between neighbors; each with their own capacity and opportunity to become one with the Lord and Christ.
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fultonfish
Guest
There are two parts to the biblical quote. The other part is:
Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church.
And Christ gave up his life for the Church. He DIED for the Church.
So your fiance/ husband must be willing to die for YOU.
[Ask him; see what he says!
]
Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church.
And Christ gave up his life for the Church. He DIED for the Church.
So your fiance/ husband must be willing to die for YOU.
[Ask him; see what he says!
]
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ac_claire
Guest
Yeah we’ve discussed both sides of Ephesians in this thread.There are two parts to the biblical quote. The other part is:
Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church.
And Christ gave up his life for the Church. He DIED for the Church.
So your fiance/ husband must be willing to die for YOU.
[Ask him; see what he says!
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Brendan
Guest
It isn’t just to die for her, it means what it says, to give up his life for her. It means that a husband should have no life apart from his wife. There should be no such thing as "his time’ or ‘his space’. It means to do anything for her that Christ would do for His Church.There are two parts to the biblical quote. The other part is:
Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church.
And Christ gave up his life for the Church. He DIED for the Church.
So your fiance/ husband must be willing to die for YOU.
[Ask him; see what he says!
Yep, if anyone should be smiling after a reading of Eph 5, it should be the wife, and if anyone should be cringing, it should be the husband
Here is a podcast from Fr. John Ricardo, a Detroit area priest. He studies in Rome and did his thesis there on Ephesians, so he really knows this subject.
media.libsyn.com/media/stanastasia/WivesWantHusbandsKnow.m4a
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Don_Hepler
Guest
I have only one thought. 2000 years ago marriage was different. I know what the bible teaches about marriage, Put personally I would not want to be a woman looking for a man today… nor would I want to be subject to them. My council is find a man that loves God more than himself and you women will have a winner.
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OLHope
Guest
This was this weekend’s 2nd reading. Did any of your pastor’s make any interesting comments on this that you did not already know? Interested in hearing if it doted in anyone’s homily.
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filiae
Guest
Our priest talked about it and said that Christ is the head of the family, not the husband or wife. So we are really defering to Christ when we defer to one another.
In our house we call this “elbow Sunday”
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OLHope
Guest
Very Cool (name removed by moderator)ut! I like the even balance he suggests, makes it sound equal to each other and dual homage to God.Our priest talked about it and said that Christ is the head of the family, not the husband or wife. So we are really defering to Christ when we defer to one another.
In our house we call this “elbow Sunday”
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djeter
Guest
I’ve noticed in speaking with some the disconnect we as Catholics have with others when it comes to communicating the notion of freedom. If we “submit” to others or are “obedient” this is somehow seen as losing a “right” of some sort.
Anyways I hunted about (as is my habit) and came up with a pretty good reply, based on a book by John Sachs I read for a course last year.
"For the Bible, God’s sovereignty and human freedom go hand in hand. Human freedom, as a sharing in God’s dominion, is grounded in God’s own sovereignty, before which it is, therefore, ultimately responsible. God, not the human creature, is alone Lord of heaven and earth.
The mystery of creation is that there can be anything which is different from the infinite, boundless God. Christian faith understands the existence of the created world as the utterly free and gracious action of God. But according to biblical faith, God’s Word does not call creation into some kind of merely factual existence, but to being-with-God.
To be means to live with God, to participate in some way in God’s life. When the Priestly writer tells us that God found all that God had made to be good, he is not referring to a moral quality or transcendental characteristic. He is speaking about the desire and delight that God has in relationship with creation. The smile of a mother holding her baby at the breast (Isaiah 49:15) images God’s delight in her creation: “It is good that you are here.”
This means something quite astounding, something which we don’t often take seriously. We are really free to be, free to be ourselves, different from God. The real freedom of the world is what God most intensely desires and is its greatest good. For, only in freedom can there be a real relationship of love in which each of the lovers takes delight in the mystery of the other…"
It continues here:
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/24/freedom-in-the-bible/
I couldn’t help but think it directly impacts this discussion here.
Regards
dj
Anyways I hunted about (as is my habit) and came up with a pretty good reply, based on a book by John Sachs I read for a course last year.
"For the Bible, God’s sovereignty and human freedom go hand in hand. Human freedom, as a sharing in God’s dominion, is grounded in God’s own sovereignty, before which it is, therefore, ultimately responsible. God, not the human creature, is alone Lord of heaven and earth.
The mystery of creation is that there can be anything which is different from the infinite, boundless God. Christian faith understands the existence of the created world as the utterly free and gracious action of God. But according to biblical faith, God’s Word does not call creation into some kind of merely factual existence, but to being-with-God.
To be means to live with God, to participate in some way in God’s life. When the Priestly writer tells us that God found all that God had made to be good, he is not referring to a moral quality or transcendental characteristic. He is speaking about the desire and delight that God has in relationship with creation. The smile of a mother holding her baby at the breast (Isaiah 49:15) images God’s delight in her creation: “It is good that you are here.”
This means something quite astounding, something which we don’t often take seriously. We are really free to be, free to be ourselves, different from God. The real freedom of the world is what God most intensely desires and is its greatest good. For, only in freedom can there be a real relationship of love in which each of the lovers takes delight in the mystery of the other…"
It continues here:
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/24/freedom-in-the-bible/
I couldn’t help but think it directly impacts this discussion here.
Regards
dj
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Marycruz
Guest
They skipped it at my parish.
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ac_claire
Guest
Yes, Christ is the head of the family in a way, but sermons like this seem designed to downplay or subvert the clear teaching that the husbands is the head of the wife, and they are one body…which some just have such a hard time with.Our priest talked about it and said that Christ is the head of the family, not the husband or wife. So we are really defering to Christ when we defer to one another.
In our house we call this “elbow Sunday”
About your specific priest, filiae, I could be wrong. Just a general observation.
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filiae
Guest
This was a visiting priest so I don’t know him.I tend to agree with what you said. I defer to my husband because I know he is formed in the faith and is a good man. If he wasn’t or I thought he was way off base on a subject, I wouldn’t defer quite so easily. But I trust him and know he wouldn’t steer me wrong.
And yes, “the two shall become one.”
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marymol
Guest
.
This means something quite astounding, something which we don’t often take seriously. We are really free to be, free to be ourselves, different from God. The real freedom of the world is what God most intensely desires and is its greatest good. For, only in freedom can there be a real relationship of love in which each of the lovers takes delight in the mystery of the other…"
It continues here:
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/24/freedom-in-the-bible/
I couldn’t help but think it directly impacts this discussion here.
Regards
dj
Thank you for this excellent site and article ; the key phrase in the topic of discussion may be 'submit to your husbands as to The Lord ’ and that requires lot of responsibilty for both to know the mind and heart of The Lord so that if there are possibilities of errors , both would be able to discern same early , prevent, correct etc :
( Seems efforts made for this very good use of freedom , through worship, bible studies etc ; has a very good aspect of preventing divorce and such .)
Being able to be trusting and thus surrendering to God given roles might come easier for women ; any expectant mother would know this… …and as the ’ weaker vessel ’ ( yet said to be the last and best of creation !) women also possibly more aware of need and even ways to be of trusting dependancy …
thus she becomes almost a role model for man …thus reversing what happend in The Garden …instead of leading him to disobey, she can lead him in one sense with a quite and gentle spirit , into more trusting ways of The Lord , using the God given freedom, to be trusting in God and in those He has given in her life …as The Lord Himself has shown …
And too , women , after all, are given the very precious role to be mothers …and her choosing to give honor to God for all that , through the husband , by honoring him for his role , can it not be the means to avoid any envy and ways of the evil one to bring in division …( one has to wonder if Adam’s knowledge to name all the animals could have put in a bit of a sense of inferiority in Eve who in turn wanted more knowldege, to make up for same , not foreseeing that the the glorious role of motherhood was awaiting her ; interesting that she is the one who names Cain !)
may The Immaculate Heart of our Bl. Mother show us into the prefect freedom of children of God, in The Holy Spirit !
This means something quite astounding, something which we don’t often take seriously. We are really free to be, free to be ourselves, different from God. The real freedom of the world is what God most intensely desires and is its greatest good. For, only in freedom can there be a real relationship of love in which each of the lovers takes delight in the mystery of the other…"
It continues here:
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/24/freedom-in-the-bible/
I couldn’t help but think it directly impacts this discussion here.
Regards
dj
Thank you for this excellent site and article ; the key phrase in the topic of discussion may be 'submit to your husbands as to The Lord ’ and that requires lot of responsibilty for both to know the mind and heart of The Lord so that if there are possibilities of errors , both would be able to discern same early , prevent, correct etc :
( Seems efforts made for this very good use of freedom , through worship, bible studies etc ; has a very good aspect of preventing divorce and such .)
Being able to be trusting and thus surrendering to God given roles might come easier for women ; any expectant mother would know this… …and as the ’ weaker vessel ’ ( yet said to be the last and best of creation !) women also possibly more aware of need and even ways to be of trusting dependancy …
thus she becomes almost a role model for man …thus reversing what happend in The Garden …instead of leading him to disobey, she can lead him in one sense with a quite and gentle spirit , into more trusting ways of The Lord , using the God given freedom, to be trusting in God and in those He has given in her life …as The Lord Himself has shown …
And too , women , after all, are given the very precious role to be mothers …and her choosing to give honor to God for all that , through the husband , by honoring him for his role , can it not be the means to avoid any envy and ways of the evil one to bring in division …( one has to wonder if Adam’s knowledge to name all the animals could have put in a bit of a sense of inferiority in Eve who in turn wanted more knowldege, to make up for same , not foreseeing that the the glorious role of motherhood was awaiting her ; interesting that she is the one who names Cain !)
may The Immaculate Heart of our Bl. Mother show us into the prefect freedom of children of God, in The Holy Spirit !
M
mrpathetic
Guest
What Ephesians 5 simply means is this: spouses are evangelists to each other. Each spouse should attempt to lead the other to holiness. This means sacrificing for each other, to help build the faith of the other person in the marriage.Hi, new to the forums and I hope to learn a lot from the people who’ve been here awhile. I am engaged to be married this next year. I want to have a biblical marriage, but I am having some trouble understanding the dynamics of Ephesians 5 and Titus 2. The more I think about it the more uncomfortable it makes me, I think because while I do understand what I’m reading, I am unsure how this plays out in everyday life.
How can I be obedient and submissive to my future husband without turning into a doormat? I am not a feminist, but I’m not a shrinking violet either on the other hand. What does submission look like in the practical, everyday life of a modern marriage?
If any of you ladies (and men) who’ve been married awhile have any other helpful advice for an almost newlywed, that would be great too.
When the wife is commanded to submit to the husband, it is so the husband can lead the spouse to salvation.
When the husband is commanded to love the wife, he is commanded to love the wife in the way that Christ loved His church. How did Christ love His Church? By allowing himself to be nailed to a tree.
If you want to know what St. Paul is referencing in this passage as “Love”, look at a crucifix. That’s the perfect example of what marital love means. It means doing anything it takes, to help get the other person to heaven.
My wife is an agnostic, and has abandoned Christianity. I pray every day, for her return to the faith. I try to lead her back to Christ, but it is nearly impossible.
If you want to show respect for your husband, then show your faith in Christ. Then your husband will know you respect and love him.
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