I can’t say that I agree with most of Angelo’s sentiments, but I actually think this is an important point. People, strange as it may seem, have taken it to mean that the man mediates for the woman he is married to in the same way Christ does, or even that the husband does become a Christ, or more commonly that he deserves the same recognition from his wife as she would give to Christ. All clearly inaccurate, but still believed by some Christians.
Yes, I have met unfortunate women in this situation. Now, I think the men involved might very likely be abusive jerks in any case, but this is their justification. And some of their churches back up their bad behavior by saying the wife needs to accept his dominance, no matter what it means, because it is through him she is justified. I suppose such groups probably encourage people with abusive tendencies to develop them to the fullest - rather like the divine right of kings.*(bolded for emphasis, mine)
Really???*
Sounds like the news story that ran last year or the year prior…about the guy arrested for abusing women and children in texas (or instructing it I should say amongst the community) I think it was…all under the guise of ‘religion.’ (Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I think the sect was?) Yes…that is totally not what Christ meant. Christ was about love and sacrifice…why would Christ teach something that went against who He was, you know? Sad.
Were these Catholic women, Bluegoat?
I have never run into it to such an extreme among Catholics, although I have heard of less extreme versions of the same argument among Catholics of my grandparent’s generation.
I agree 100% with you. This reading was written in a context where women did not have the independance or education they had now and they were married as teenagers to older men. I don’t understand why anyone would think that in this day and age a woman can go to college, have a job and live on her own, but on the day that she gets married, she suddenly becomes unable to make decisions as wise as her husband. It’s simply ridiculous.
Fair enough. I pretty much agree except I personally don’t find it fruitful to talk about what it doesn’t mean until you’re faced with an instance of the passage being misconstrued in such a way. I say that because I see threads like this all the time. I mean, go back and read this thread from the start and you’ll see it…Ephesians 5 was mentioned and asked about, and a couple posts later the defensive “but it doesn’t mean wives literally are to submit to their husbands!” posts started pouring in.
I agree. Feminism does not equal destruction of the family and pro abortion. It is about the enpowerment of women for the greaater good. Not all men are anti feminists especially those who are knowledgeable and strong in themselves. Many, men and women, are still frightened by the term without really understanding.
It’s not about that at all. Any given wife may indeed be objectively more wise than her husband, but he’s still the husband, and therefore her head. The roles are what is different. Any idea that the woman’s role is less important or less dignified than a man’s comes from people who are misinterpreting the passage and the contex. The Bible never says anything like that. Don’t try to cheat men or women out of being who we were created to be.
Where does the Bible or the Church say that the husband is supposed to submit to the wife just as she is to submit to him?
It’s also what the Bible says. Minus that part yall have made up about marital submission equalling submission to Christ.
That’s exactly what I have a problem with. The fact that just because of your gender, your opinion will be either more or less important than that of your spouse to take a decision, regardless of your knowledge and abilities regarding the decision.
Yes, it is a personal decision ,not a requirement Christ placed on us. I have pointed out before that even the RCC does not now require a wife to obey her husband in the marriage vows.
I’m sorry you have a problem with it. But you need to take that up with God. Nobody here is making this stuff up. And again, nobody has said that that the woman’s opinion is less important but you. You’re projecting your own ideas onto the concept of a Christian marriage.
You all who “know” best" and have the “correct” interpretation should be very proud of yourselves. We all sinners keep searching for knowledge and God’s truth.It’s not about that at all. Any given wife may indeed be objectively more wise than her husband, but he’s still the husband, and therefore her head. The roles are what is different. Any idea that the woman’s role is less important or less dignified than a man’s comes from people who are misinterpreting the passage and the contex. The Bible never says anything like that. Don’t try to cheat men or women out of being who we were created to be.
In other words…you choosing to believe that the woman’s role is “lesser” doesn’t mean that it actually is, and doesn’t change the reality of the Great Mystery.
Where does the Bible or the Church say that the husband is supposed to submit to the wife just as she is to submit to him?
It’s also what the Bible says. Minus that part yall have made up about marital submission equalling submission to Christ.
No, I don’t think I know best. We’ve just been telling you what the Bible plainly says and what the Church’s interpretation of it is. Not my own interpretation or what I want it to mean…but the Church’s. If you don’t want to take my word for it, please…look it up for yourself.
Good point.
It is hard to have to learn to be humble. I’m still learning and nowhere near to being successful in this area, not yet. Husbands are called to do the same thing, just not in the same way.