Women and "Those Images"

[sweetpetunia]

In regards to confession, I think it is just difficult to share intimate details with someone you don’t have an intimate relationship with, regardless of gender. It takes time and trust to build up that confidence, so when we come to confession, we make ourselves very vulnerable. Luckily, it is Christ that we are making ourselves vulnerable to, and in my experience, the priests I have confessed to over the years have never acted in any other way than in Persona Christi.

I currently have a spiritual director who is a priest, and I am comfortable sharing personal issues with him even outside the context of the seal of confession. It took me over a year to build up that level of confidence and so I get how it can be difficult to spill one’s guts in a sitting. And no, I never, ever, ever, (not even once!) thought of him as a potential rapist. Ugh. The very thought is as abhorrent to me. He is genuinely Christ-like with everyone, and is kind and compassionate with everyone, from the youth and the elderly to the homeless and the mentally disabled. The priesthood is truly a tremendous gift.

As to gender differences, I think I actually prefer a male confessor to a female one. Men tend to focus more on ideas and practicalities than conversations and relationships, and not many men will mull daily interactions over and over, rehashing, dissecting, analyzing, and reinterpreting them in the same way we women do. This stuff largely gets put out of their minds. Furthermore, sometimes we women can be our own worst critics–just look at the mommy wars! I also think it is both disingenuous and absurd to pretend that all males are equal threats to women’s safety. If one truly believes that, and has such a deep-seated anxiety about men than psychological counseling might be in order.

Jamie, God bless you for sharing your struggles. That takes courage <3 Mine aren’t specifically the same, but I think the posters who mentioned avoiding the occasion of sin are spot on, and that if it is out of hand than seek professional assistance. Also, my spiritual director once told me that when we struggle with a particular type of sin, it is helpful to cultivate the opposing virtue. I have found this advice universally helpful in my experience. So, for example, if one struggles with issue relating to self-indulgence, he/she might find ways to practice self-discipline, such as occasionally fasting according to their means and abilities. (This could be as simple as fasting from dessert once a week. You get to be creative with how you choose to implement cultivating that virtue!).

Another priest once told me once in confession not to starve my self spiritually. To fill my mind with beautiful things (not just faith stuff, but other beautiful things too—nature, music, flowers, poetry, good books–whatever feeds your soul.) If your soul is not nourished, then you can’t help but fall into sin. Nobody could. So fill it up with beauty and grace. Frequent the sacraments, and maybe pin up a picture of Mary to your computer. Ask her to obtain the necessary graces from Jesus for you. Best and blessings.

 

[sweetpetunia]

Maybe there’s some wonderful book, article, or blogspot out there that deals with this, but I haven’t found it yet.

If you are looking for a resource to share, this book is supposed to address promiscuity, adultery, and self-gratification for women who struggle with purity. Might be worth a shot.
amazon.com/Every-Womans-Battle-Discovering-Fulfillment/dp/0307457982/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364151163&sr=8-1&keywords=every+woman%27s+battle

 

[LisaA]

---

.

Jamie, God bless you for sharing your struggles. That takes courage <3 Mine aren’t specifically the same, but I think the posters who mentioned avoiding the occasion of sin are spot on, and that if it is out of hand than seek professional assistance. ***Also, my spiritual director once told me that when we struggle with a particular type of sin, it is helpful to cultivate the opposing virtue. I have found this advice universally helpful in my experience. So, for example, if one struggles with issue relating to self-indulgence, he/she might find ways to practice self-discipline, such as occasionally fasting according to their means and abilities. (This could be as simple as fasting from dessert once a week. You get to be creative with how you choose to implement cultivating that virtue!). ***
Another priest once told me once in confession not to starve my self spiritually. To fill my mind with beautiful things (not just faith stuff, but other beautiful things too—nature, music, flowers, poetry, good books–whatever feeds your soul.) If your soul is not nourished, then you can’t help but fall into sin. Nobody could. So fill it up with beauty and grace. Frequent the sacraments, and maybe pin up a picture of Mary to your computer. Ask her to obtain the necessary graces from Jesus for you. Best and blessings.

Wonderful post and thank you. We do not all struggle with purity but we all struggle with temptation. These are very helpful suggestions! What feeds your soul and makes you feel more alive…there are many blessings and spiritual helps and we need only to look and pray for strength

Lisa

 

[Kensho]

If you are looking for a resource to share, this book is supposed to address promiscuity, adultery, and self-gratification for women who struggle with purity. Might be worth a shot.
amazon.com/Every-Womans-Battle-Discovering-Fulfillment/dp/0307457982/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364151163&sr=8-1&keywords=every+woman%27s+battle

I’ve heard of that book and I think it fits the description I gave above of the usual advice to women. Your personal advice is excellent, though.

 

[silentfactor80]

I’m married to a red blooded American man with a high sex drive. I get “how men are.” The equivalent of raping a female is raping a male. Not aggressive and overt come-ons. I have four sons. If one of them chose to have sex with a temptress, I’d blame him squarely. Forcible rape does not equal heavy come ons whether the “victim” is drunk, horny, having a bad day - whatever. I’m sure men in prison who are violently raped by other men could attest to the sense of violation, deep shame and terror that they face when they are attacked. Rape victims suffer for years, often for lifetimes. I do not think a drunk guy who consents to sex with a horny babe is at all the same as those men. Hence, one situation is a felony and the other is considered a poor choice.

And you did not say “violence” - you said “being gunned down.” Backpedal much? Your misogyny and is really upsetting me, so I’m leaving this thread now.

You seem to think an erection = consent. A drunk guy CANNOT give consent because he is UNDER THE INFLUENCE! The law says the same about women. Why the double standard? I detect lots of misandry in your post. You perpetuate the “man = sex hungry animal, woman = delicate little white flower.” That is why women with porno problems cannot get help. They are told what they are feeling is wrong and “only a man’s problem.” You may not have a high sex drive but other women do and they feel entitled to get what they want. That is today’s message to women. If the law was equally applied BOTH would be felonies when alcohol is involved. The fact that only women seem to get protection under the law is called MISANDRY.

Violence or gunned down is the same thing. The simple fact is men have to fear other men WAY more than women have to fear being raped. Society actually cares about women where as with men they just leave us to fend for ourselves. Then when we do they wonder why we act the way do.

I’m beginning to notice a pattern here…every time I point out some fact contrary to what women want to believe about men I get charged with misogyny. Yes, ladies you can be wrong but it’s not your fault. That is how the media wants you to think because using fear to manipulate people is an age old trick.

 

[silentfactor80]

In regards to confession, I think it is just difficult to share intimate details with someone you don’t have an intimate relationship with, regardless of gender. It takes time and trust to build up that confidence, so when we come to confession, we make ourselves very vulnerable. Luckily, it is Christ that we are making ourselves vulnerable to, and in my experience, the priests I have confessed to over the years have never acted in any other way than in Persona Christi.

I currently have a spiritual director who is a priest, and I am comfortable sharing personal issues with him even outside the context of the seal of confession. It took me over a year to build up that level of confidence and so I get how it can be difficult to spill one’s guts in a sitting. And no, I never, ever, ever, (not even once!) thought of him as a potential rapist. Ugh. The very thought is as abhorrent to me. He is genuinely Christ-like with everyone, and is kind and compassionate with everyone, from the youth and the elderly to the homeless and the mentally disabled. The priesthood is truly a tremendous gift.

As to gender differences, I think I actually prefer a male confessor to a female one. Men tend to focus more on ideas and practicalities than conversations and relationships, and not many men will mull daily interactions over and over, rehashing, dissecting, analyzing, and reinterpreting them in the same way we women do. This stuff largely gets put out of their minds. Furthermore, sometimes we women can be our own worst critics–just look at the mommy wars! I also think it is both disingenuous and absurd to pretend that all males are equal threats to women’s safety. If one truly believes that, and has such a deep-seated anxiety about men than psychological counseling might be in order.

Jamie, God bless you for sharing your struggles. That takes courage <3 Mine aren’t specifically the same, but I think the posters who mentioned avoiding the occasion of sin are spot on, and that if it is out of hand than seek professional assistance. Also, my spiritual director once told me that when we struggle with a particular type of sin, it is helpful to cultivate the opposing virtue. I have found this advice universally helpful in my experience. So, for example, if one struggles with issue relating to self-indulgence, he/she might find ways to practice self-discipline, such as occasionally fasting according to their means and abilities. (This could be as simple as fasting from dessert once a week. You get to be creative with how you choose to implement cultivating that virtue!).

Another priest once told me once in confession not to starve my self spiritually. To fill my mind with beautiful things (not just faith stuff, but other beautiful things too—nature, music, flowers, poetry, good books–whatever feeds your soul.) If your soul is not nourished, then you can’t help but fall into sin. Nobody could. So fill it up with beauty and grace. Frequent the sacraments, and maybe pin up a picture of Mary to your computer. Ask her to obtain the necessary graces from Jesus for you. Best and blessings.

 

[Tampa_Rays]

You seem to think an erection = consent. A drunk guy CANNOT give consent because he is UNDER THE INFLUENCE! The law says the same about women. Why the double standard? I detect lots of misandry in your post. You perpetuate the “man = sex hungry animal, woman = delicate little white flower.” That is why women with porno problems cannot get help. They are told what they are feeling is wrong and “only a man’s problem.” You may not have a high sex drive but other women do and they feel entitled to get what they want. That is today’s message to women. If the law was equally applied BOTH would be felonies when alcohol is involved. The fact that only women seem to get protection under the law is called MISANDRY.

Violence or gunned down is the same thing. The simple fact is men have to fear other men WAY more than women have to fear being raped. Society actually cares about women where as with men they just leave us to fend for ourselves. Then when we do they wonder why we act the way do.

I’m beginning to notice a pattern here…every time I point out some fact contrary to what women want to believe about men I get charged with misogyny. Yes, ladies you can be wrong but it’s not your fault. That is how the media wants you to think because using fear to manipulate people is an age old trick.

 

[Kensho]

I wish it were possible to discuss sexual misbehavior from both male and female perspectives without terms like misogyny being brandished. But this is such an emotional subject that it is hard to do.

 

[silentfactor80]

I wish it were possible to discuss sexual misbehavior from both male and female perspectives without terms like misogyny being brandished. But this is such an emotional subject that it is hard to do.

Thank you! The M word is being thrown around so much these days that eventually people are going to be desensitized to it. Misogyny in my mind is when one harbors a hatred of all women just because they are women. Just because one disagrees with a woman or a female point of view does not make one a misogynist. Some people think if you are against abortion and birth control you are a misogynist. By that definition many women here would be misogynists. It doesn’t make sense. Who gets to decide what exactly qualifies as misogyny? It seem totally arbitrary these days.

I appreciate women and what God made them to be. I do not appreciate it though when women dismiss men as animals that don’t care about them. That is deeply hurtful, inhuman, and contrary to what God made men to be. Sure lots of guys do horrible things to women and we can work on those. Calling guys with differing opinions misogynists though isn’t going to help. Retaliating with misandry isn’t the answer either.

As Kensho said, why can’t we just sit down and talk like adults without the name calling?

 

[JackieMom]

I wish it were possible to discuss sexual misbehavior from both male and female perspectives without terms like misogyny being brandished. But this is such an emotional subject that it is hard to do.

It IS misogynistic to say things like
“Date rape is completely preventible.” (So, logically, it’s the woman’s fault for not preventing.)

And

“Being aggressively hit on is the same as forcible rape.” (Right. Let’s start a support group for victims of “I had consensual sex at a party because this chick was too hot to turn down.”)

And

“Men are more likely to be gunned down than women are to be raped.” (Which is 100% false.)

I’m not throwing terms around. I’m calling a spade a spade. Rape is rape - forced sexual acts where either consent is denied or not given, usually involving a victim who is incapacitated or restrained and threatened with violence. It can happen to a man or a woman, but for various reasons it rarely happens to men. This has nothing to do with being pursued by someone at a party who wants to jump your bones. Nothing. As a nurse who has seen many ER years, seeing post-rape victims and taking their samples is one of the most heartbreaking and difficult aspects of the job. The women are just thrashed and their spirits broken. So far I’ve never seen anyone come in for a rape kit because “I had a few beers and gave in to temptation.” No, that’s just lack of willpower (for men AND women.)

 

[Kensho]

It IS misogynistic to say things like
“Date rape is completely preventible.” (So, logically, it’s the woman’s fault for not preventing.)

And

“Being aggressively hit on is the same as forcible rape.” (Right. Let’s start a support group for victims of “I had consensual sex at a party because this chick was too hot to turn down.”)

And

“Men are more likely to be gunned down than women are to be raped.” (Which is 100% false.)

I’m not throwing terms around. I’m calling a spade a spade. Rape is rape - forced sexual acts where either consent is denied or not given, usually involving a victim who is incapacitated or restrained and threatened with violence. It can happen to a man or a woman, but for various reasons it rarely happens to men. This has nothing to do with being pursued by someone at a party who wants to jump your bones. Nothing. As a nurse who has seen many ER years, seeing post-rape victims and taking their samples is one of the most heartbreaking and difficult aspects of the job. The women are just thrashed and their spirits broken. So far I’ve never seen anyone come in for a rape kit because “I had a few beers and gave in to temptation.” No, that’s just lack of willpower (for men AND women.)

I think there’s a misunderstanding here and that no one on this thread is either a misogynist or a misandrist. I think silentfactor said some things that are wrong and has made a false dichotomy between forcible rape and aggressive come-ons. That isn’t enough for me to say he’s a misogynist.

I also don’t think male rape is all that uncommon. Men are less likely to report rape. Male prisoners are far more likely to be raped, and not too many people care. I’ve also known at least half a dozen men who admitted to me that they were raped as children or teenagers. And lately I’ve been reading news articles about women gang-raping men – I must admit I’m not sure how that would work.

I don’t believe date rape is entirely preventable unless one believes women should never leave the house without an escort, but certainly there are risky behaviors that make it more likely. I see young, naive women putting themselves in terrible positions far too often – just think about the horrible story of the Steubenville rape that’s been in the news lately. I DON’T blame the girls. I wonder where the parents are.

I do agree with your original point that girls grow up seeing rape as a possibility and being fearful of men to some degree because of it. Men don’t understand that fear. It must be very frustrating for the men who would never hurt a woman.

 

[Kensho]

Sorry, please change “dichotomy” to “equation” in the above post.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

It IS misogynistic to say things like
“Date rape is completely preventible.” (So, logically, it’s the woman’s fault for not preventing.)

And

“Being aggressively hit on is the same as forcible rape.” (Right. Let’s start a support group for victims of “I had consensual sex at a party because this chick was too hot to turn down.”)

And

“Men are more likely to be gunned down than women are to be raped.” (Which is 100% false.)

I’m not throwing terms around. I’m calling a spade a spade. Rape is rape - forced sexual acts where either consent is denied or not given, usually involving a victim who is incapacitated or restrained and threatened with violence. It can happen to a man or a woman, but for various reasons it rarely happens to men. This has nothing to do with being pursued by someone at a party who wants to jump your bones. Nothing. As a nurse who has seen many ER years, seeing post-rape victims and taking their samples is one of the most heartbreaking and difficult aspects of the job. The women are just thrashed and their spirits broken. So far I’ve never seen anyone come in for a rape kit because “I had a few beers and gave in to temptation.” No, that’s just lack of willpower (for men AND women.)

I agree with everything you’ve said. But don’t think this sort of thing never happens to men (I know you didn’t, just clarifying for readers). From when I was eleven until I was fourteen I was repeatedly victim of child molestation (Yes, by a guy, but I’m still a guy and it happened to me).

 

[silentfactor80]

I think there’s a misunderstanding here and that no one on this thread is either a misogynist or a misandrist. I think silentfactor said some things that are wrong and has made a false dichotomy between forcible rape and aggressive come-ons. That isn’t enough for me to say he’s a misogynist.

I also don’t think male rape is all that uncommon. Men are less likely to report rape. Male prisoners are far more likely to be raped, and not too many people care. I’ve also known at least half a dozen men who admitted to me that they were raped as children or teenagers. And lately I’ve been reading news articles about women gang-raping men – I must admit I’m not sure how that would work.

I don’t believe date rape is entirely preventable unless one believes women should never leave the house without an escort, but certainly there are risky behaviors that make it more likely. I see young, naive women putting themselves in terrible positions far too often – just think about the horrible story of the Steubenville rape that’s been in the news lately. I DON’T blame the girls. I wonder where the parents are.

I do agree with your original point that girls grow up seeing rape as a possibility and being fearful of men to some degree because of it. Men don’t understand that fear. It must be very frustrating for the men who would never hurt a woman.

I agree with Kensho and feel she is someone that can have an intellectual discussion without the name calling and nonsense. My example wasn’t the best but women really don’t understand what it is like to be be in a guys shoes either. When we speak we say “men get women pregnant” as if the woman was just a victim of circumstance even in cases of consensual sex. Society constantly tells us they we are shallow, vicious, lascivious, an sex-crazed animals with a penchant for being violent. Who the heck would love such a creature? Can women really say nothing good about men? Then along comes some attractive woman throwing herself at you and who makes you feel like a king. Do you really think you are in a condition to walk away from that? Physically you could but psychologically its not as easy as you think because society has nothing but praise for women especially these days. Men only get praise when they DO something big but women get praise just for being women. How many times do you hear your mothers get poetic about your fathers? Yet, dad is always poetic about mom.

I may have overstated my statement about rape being preventable. It is not ENTIRELY preventable but as Kensho said, there is precautions you could take. Rape of younger boys by women is common but we don’t want to recognize it because we think erection = consent. Here is a video about female pedophiles (youtube.com/watch?v=nCpr3hr0K30) and society not wanting to do anything about it. And in the news (tampabay.com/news/courts/article1183449.ece).

To the bolded:
They do it at gun point. All the muscle in the world isn’t going to help when one party has a gun. (africanspotlight.com/2011/10/zimbabwe-3-ladies-arrested-for-raping-124-men-in-11-days-and-collecting-their-sperm/)

 

[silentfactor80]

It IS misogynistic to say things like
"Date rape is completely preventible." (So, logically, it’s the woman’s fault for not preventing.)

And

“Being aggressively hit on is the same as forcible rape.” (Right. Let’s start a support group for victims of “I had consensual sex at a party because this chick was too hot to turn down.”)

And

“Men are more likely to be gunned down than women are to be raped.” (Which is 100% false.)

I’m not throwing terms around. I’m calling a spade a spade. Rape is rape - forced sexual acts where either consent is denied or not given, usually involving a victim who is incapacitated or restrained and threatened with violence. It can happen to a man or a woman, but for various reasons it rarely happens to men. This has nothing to do with being pursued by someone at a party who wants to jump your bones. Nothing. As a nurse who has seen many ER years, seeing post-rape victims and taking their samples is one of the most heartbreaking and difficult aspects of the job. The women are just thrashed and their spirits broken. So far I’ve never seen anyone come in for a rape kit because “I had a few beers and gave in to temptation.” No, that’s just lack of willpower (for men AND women.)

You are swinging to an extreme with the bolded. I never said the guy isn’t to blame if he commits rape. What I meant was that there are things women can do to decrease the chances of it happening by a lot!

The example I gave was a guy is DRUNK at a party. Not just getting hit on by some random attractive girl. Under the law if both parties are drunk it doesn’t matter because only the guy is guilty of rape!! The girl should be charged with rape too but the hyper-emotional types that make comments like yours cover up for those girls because that might give women a bad name then.

And how many guys do you think NEED to come in for a rape kit? Do they even have such a thing for guys?

 

[JackieMom]

You are swinging to an extreme with the bolded. I never said the guy isn’t to blame if he commits rape. What I meant was that there are things women can do to decrease the chances of it happening by a lot!

The example I gave was a guy is DRUNK at a party. Not just getting hit on by some random attractive girl. Under the law if both parties are drunk it doesn’t matter because only the guy is guilty of rape!! The girl should be charged with rape too but the hyper-emotional types that make comments like yours cover up for those girls because that might give women a bad name then.

And how many guys do you think NEED to come in for a rape kit? Do they even have such a thing for guys?

I won’t respond to your insults, but of course we can run a rape kit on males. We can take penile and anal swabs, photograph any injuries, ligature marks or bruising, scrape under fingernails for evidence, and document any other findings (i.e. semen or vaginal fluids on the skin.). The doctor would then examine the patient’s genitalia for trauma (vaginal or anal tearing is common.) Then, the police would interview the patient and get as much information on the attacker as possible. I have never run a kit on a male, but a male RN did run one on a young boy while I was working once. Anyone who has been sexually assaulted or raped needs to be seen in the ER immediately, without washing or changing clothes, so that all relevant evidence can be collected for prosecution of the guilty party. We would take a male as seriously as a female if one came in needing this kind of care.

 

[silentfactor80]

I won’t respond to your insults, but of course we can run a rape kit on males. We can take penile and anal swabs, photograph any injuries, ligature marks or bruising, scrape under fingernails for evidence, and document any other findings (i.e. semen or vaginal fluids on the skin.). The doctor would then examine the patient’s genitalia for trauma (vaginal or anal tearing is common.) Then, the police would interview the patient and get as much information on the attacker as possible. I have never run a kit on a male, but a male RN did run one on a young boy while I was working once. Anyone who has been sexually assaulted or raped needs to be seen in the ER immediately, without washing or changing clothes, so that all relevant evidence can be collected for prosecution of the guilty party. We would take a male as seriously as a female if one came in needing this kind of care.

Well, if a man and woman are both drunk do you think both should be charged with rape? No insults there.

Also, as Kenso said most guys would not report it because 1) they would be too ashamed to admit it and likely feel they wouldn’t be believed 2) they don’t have to worry about getting pregnant.

 

[The_Bucket]

I agree with everything you’ve said. But don’t think this sort of thing never happens to men (I know you didn’t, just clarifying for readers). From when I was eleven until I was fourteen I was repeatedly victim of child molestation (Yes, by a guy, but I’m still a guy and it happened to me).

I saw your other thread and I’m terribly sorry for what happened to you. As an aside to this thread, I think you should go to the police about it. It hasn’t been beyond the statute of limitations and it needs to be dealt with. I’ve know more people than I care to who are victims of abuse as children. Chances are that your brother learned this behavior from someone else and could be a former victim himself. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it does point to the fact that it’s something that could be passed on to someone else and it needs to be curtailed. Immediately. And with the force of law behind it.

That said, you were and still are a child if I recall correctly. You being the victim of abuse is not the same as a man. Yes, men are raped. Usually by other men. Very rarely do you see the case of a man being raped by a woman. It happens and should be taken seriously when it does, but SF80’s argument is specious. The number of woman-on-man rapes pales in comparison to just the reported man-on-woman rapes out there. One in six women are the victim of some kind of sexual assault. One in six! That means you and I probably know someone who is a sexual assault victim. That’s a crazy figure.

I can’t even get into the rest of SF80’s points. He’s already had a thread on “men as sexism victims” locked because he was going on and on with borderline victim-blaming remarks. Oh, and he really lost it because I told him that men need to suck it up and stop whining about society being “against us.” But dude, we do. We definitely do. 20% of us are not victims of sexual assault. Women are. They need more physical protection than we do. Civil/family law needs some changing because of what goes down in divorce situations, but when it comes to criminal law, I think women and children are actually not protected enough.

 

[Andrew1980]

But it’s not an equal swap. Have you ever been afraid that those women “got off” on what you told them? Probably not. But a modest woman would NEVER discuss her sexual past with a male friend for that very reason. Since males historically have had the political, educational, and social upper hand and always will have the physical upper hand, the dynamic is not the same both ways. We are taught to guard ourselves in many ways from men.

You don’t need to go into graphic detail while confessing. Just confess the sins of viewing pornography and masterbation, if that is present also. No more explaination is needed. You could call MB, self abuse or whatever.

 

[JackieMom]

Well, if a man and woman are both drunk do you think both should be charged with rape? No insults there.

Also, as Kenso said most guys would not report it because 1) they would be too ashamed to admit it and likely feel they wouldn’t be believed 2) they don’t have to worry about getting pregnant.

Not my place to figure out the legal, but as a nurse, if someone says they’ve been raped then we treat it as such. The hallmark of rape is that it is done against one’s will or while one is too incapacitated to give consent (two or three beers is not going to cut it.) So, if both parties showed up claiming rape we’d take a BAC and tox screen to confirm how much alcohol and/or barbiturates they had in their systems plus rape kits. If both were equally inebriated I doubt it would make it to court. This would be especially true if there was no physical trauma or signs of a struggle and all signs pointed to consensual drunk sex that both regretted once they sobered up a bit.