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LINVS
Guest
The title of the article should be “Women misunderstand their role in the church.”
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Santi2
Guest
Here is a list of some of the women who hold positions of influence and authority within the Holy See:
•Sister Helen Alford, Dean of the Faculty of Social Sciences at the Angelicum University.
•Sister Jane Livesey, Superior General of the worldwide Congregation of Jesus – the Mary Ward Sisters.
•Sister Eugenia Bonetti, runs the human trafficking network of the Union of Italian Mothers Superior.
•Dr. Francesca di Giovanni – works in the Secretariat of State
•Prof Jane Adolphe – on special assignment in the Secretariat of State
•Dr Flaminia Giovanelli, Under Secretary in the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace
•Philippa Hitchen, one of the key anchors of the global Vatican Radio service.
•Professor Donna Orsuto, Director of the Lay Centre.
•Dr Martina Liebsch – Policy Director, Caritas Internationalis development and aid network
•Ana Cristina Villa Betancourt, Head of Women’s Section, Pontifical Council for the Laity
Worth noting:
- Whilst there may well be a case for more suitably qualified women to be appointed to prominent lay roles within the Curia, which may well do much to change the public face of the Church which can sometimes appear predominantly male, that is not quite the same issue as suggesting that the church is not listening as has been suggested by female liberal Catholic theologians.
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catholicwomenrising.wordpress.com/
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Thank you for the quotes from the document above, Santi:
And also thank you for that list of influential women in the Holy See.
My question would still hold, to bellasbane: What supposedly special role would women have in “reforming the curia?”
And also thank you for that list of influential women in the Holy See.
My question would still hold, to bellasbane: What supposedly special role would women have in “reforming the curia?”
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Santi2
Guest
Privileged to be of help, my friend.
I forgot to add to the list our very own Dr Caroline Farey who was appointed by Pope Benedict XVI as Adiutores Secretarii Specialis [expert] to the Synod of October 2012 on the new evangelisation for the transmission of the Christian faith.
Dr. Caroline Farey is Director of the Bachelor of Divinity courses and Head of Catechetical Formation at Maryvale Institute in the UK which is now a Pontifical Institute. Not any one of our Bishops or priests was appointed but, Caroline, a woman.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I read constant press reports about disgruntled Catholic women disparaging the Church for it’s unequal treatment of women. I have yet to met one Catholic woman who expresses such negative sentiments. I’m beginning to believe the number of disgruntled female dissenters is exceptionally small.
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bellasbane
Guest
I never said “special” role. I know women already hold offices in the Curia. I was thinking that if things need shaking up it would probably open up some high level positions that could go to women. Same for the Vatican Bank.
Is there ANY office in the curia that requires Holy Orders?
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edwest2
Guest
So this is another women priests thread, and a plea that women should get “upper management” jobs, including financial management. The Church is not a corporation. Some radical feminists worship the god: Power.
Women cannot act as Priests or Deacons.
ncregister.com/site/article/vatican_letter_censures_women_deacon_courses/
Peace,
Ed
Mark121359
Well-known member
I just get this feeling, that some for whatever reason just can’t be reached. And it pains me to say that. They for whatever reason just cannot grasp the various explanations put forth by so many on this forum, men and women alike (and so expertly and knowledgeably I might add), but with zero effect on them. It’s baffling to me. Then I have to question their motives for this refusal to accept the Church’s position on this. By the way, I work with someone just like this, women priests,SSM, etc., and no matter what new approach I try…the results are always the same.
Peace, Mark
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bellasbane
Guest
If you had read my earlier post, you would have seen that I specifically state that ordination is not required for certain ministries within the Church.
In the article you reference is says:
“If we were to revive deaconesses, the first question is what would they do?” he asked. “We don’t have a large number of adults being baptized and we don’t baptize without clothing.”
Furthermore, he said, if women were allowed to be deaconesses today, the Holy See is concerned that they might erroneously think they were deacons who could then be ordained priests or bishops.
So the real issue for the Holy See is not that the revival of the deaconess is unorthodox, but the concern that it would create a perception problem. Whether this is a valid enough reason to refuse this ministry to women is something the new Pope and Bishops will have to decide. However, it is unfair to characterize the desire on the part of some women in the Church to serve as deaconesses without being ordained as in any way outside the bounds of reason.
In a recent interview with Blick, a Swiss German-language daily newspaper, Bishop Felix Gmür of Basel, Switzerland endorsed the idea of reviving the role of deaconess:
(Translated from the German):
…what we should discuss is the office of the diaconate for women…
… they would sort of be priests’ helpers, they could preach, baptize, marry. But not celebrate Mass or hear confessions.
Yes. Here there are starting points in the tradition – in contrast to female priests, where there aren’t such starting points. And I consider it important that women hold important offices in the diocese. …
blick.ch/news/schweiz/rom-soll-uns-bischoefen-weniger-dreinreden-id2207193.html
So this isn’t just some crazy radical feminist idea. It is a valid request for reform that some Church leaders think is a good idea, even if it does not sit well with some people. I can imagine more change-minded Catholics complaining that it is not “good enough” and more tradition-minded Catholics complaining that it “goes too far”. Well - that’s nothing new.
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Brendan
Guest
The Church never had female deacons. It had Deaconess, like the Orthodox Church still has, but they were never in Holy Orders (just like the Orthodox Deaconess are not in Holy Orders.)
The role of the Deaconess would like the prioress of a Mendicant order. Yes, they could Baptize (as can anyone) but they could never witness marriages. It would be possible to allow them to witness marriages, just as a bishop would allow any other lay person to witness marriages.
But the question then becomes, why would the Church need a special lay position of people just to Baptize and witness marriages?
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Lucky7
Guest
Yup. Ultimately, I do not think they want to know the Church’s position…it is wrong, they are right. Period. Most of the time I just don’t bother anymore.I just get this feeling, that some for whatever reason just can’t be reached. And it pains me to say that. They for whatever reason just cannot grasp the various explanations put forth by so many on this forum, men and women alike (and so expertly and knowledgeably I might add), but with zero effect on them. It’s baffling to me. Then I have to question their motives for this refusal to accept the Church’s position on this. By the way, I work with someone just like this, women priests,SSM, etc., and no matter what new approach I try…the results are always the same.
Peace, Mark
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edwest2
Guest
With all due respect to women as human beings, there are those whose beliefs have become so distorted, primarily by radical feminists, that they will, as a group, profess the same thing over and over and over and over again.I just get this feeling, that some for whatever reason just can’t be reached. And it pains me to say that. They for whatever reason just cannot grasp the various explanations put forth by so many on this forum, men and women alike (and so expertly and knowledgeably I might add), but with zero effect on them. It’s baffling to me. Then I have to question their motives for this refusal to accept the Church’s position on this. By the way, I work with someone just like this, women priests,SSM, etc., and no matter what new approach I try…the results are always the same.
Peace, Mark
They have the exact same (false) missionary zeal as Catholics. Keep in mind that they will repeat this over and over because a lie repeated often enough WITHOUT CORRECTION might convince a few to join their cause. They can and will dedicate their lives to the ‘cause.’
Pray for them. Have hope. If we say nothing, soon all that will be left is the WRONG message. We can’t afford to not be vigilant, and proclaim the truth always.
Peace,
Ed
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bellasbane
Guest
I believe that point has been made ad nauseum.
The word diakonon, which we translate as “Deacon” is masculine in the Greek, but Paul uses it in reference to Pheobe, a woman (Rom 16: 1-2). So the word “Deaconess” is really just a modern invention for English translations. There was no feminine form in ancient Greek.
Elsewhere, the Apostle mentions a certain “Phoebe”, described as “a deaconess of the Church at Cenchreae”, the port town east of Corinth (Rom 16: 1-2). Although at that time the title had not yet acquired a specific ministerial value of a hierarchical kind, it expresses a true and proper exercise of responsibility on the part of this woman for this Christian community. Paul recommends that she be received cordially and assisted “in whatever she may require”. Then he adds: “for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well”. - BENEDICT XVI
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20070214_en.html
- Women feel called to this ministry
- It would free up busy priests to do other things
- It is a traditional role for women that was part of the early church.
- It would be official recognition of the service women do for the church.
- Both married and single women could be included
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mark_a
Guest
I don’t understand why women want equality when they are already clearly superior. It seems they want to exchange their roles as the major influence over their families (the fundamental unit of society) to the major influence over strangers.
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bellasbane
Guest
Maybe because strangers can make life very difficult for families.
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edwest2
Guest
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Elizabeth502
Guest
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RobbyS
Guest
It has not been long that the rule was changed from the one that allowed laymen to be cardinals. Since the sole function of a cardinal is as a papal elector, I assume the change was mad to firm up the wall between the lay and clerical state, AND to limit the right so as to avoid corruption of the suffrage. After all, once upon a time, the papacy was in the hands of the leading families of Rome–and we know what Quality
popes they usually turned out. The Emperors would have loved to have had control of nominees to the papal office, as the Byzantine emperor did of the Eucumenical Patriarchate. IAC, these poor women have been gulled by all the leveling talks, as if “equality” were possible except when we are talking about the status of slavery.
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RobbyS
Guest
Indeed, all babies are females until to some are attached that little outside appendage that makes us drones what we are. The females, of course, are the ones who can have more babies and keep the race going.
I knew there was a reason I liked you.
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Corki
Guest
It’s the Cardinals who chose a Pope. Currently all the Cardinals are also Bishops but it’s not a requirement. The Pope gets to make the rules about how a conclave works, who can be in it, etc. I think that, in theory, a Pope could change the rules to allow some women in the conclave. However, the current belief is that all the members of the conclave be themselves eligible to become Pope. That would not be the case if women were included.
Even though the Cardinals come from all over the world and are a mix of secular and religious Bishops, as well as Eastern rite Bishops, they all have a common background that is useful in any decision making process that involves so many decision makers. Adding the non-ordained would make the decision making process much more prolonged since they would not be coming from that common background or skill set.
Women are involved in virtually all the decision making processes of the Church other than the election of a Pope. There are women in most, if not all, of the curial offices, as well as other Vatican departments. Women have headed Vatican departments. More locally, women are part of all of the diocisan departments and, at least in my diocese, head most of them. Women are the majority of the Directors of Religious Education in parishes. etc. etc. etc.
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