Women, how should catholic men treat you?

[KathleenT]

I will say this then bow out of the conversation. Your wording of things sounds very odd to me.

We can’t agree to disagree on what the Church teaches. She teaches what she teaches.

We also can’t structure marriage. We didn’t create marriage. God created marriage and He is the one that determines the structure.

 

[babochka]

I’m not young but even back in my day when a man invites you out for a date and he pays for dinner, chances are more than likely that he expects sex from you.

This is what I and my friends experienced and this was back in the 90s.

So on dates, I pay my own way in order to keep this sort of expectation from cropping up.

I’m so sorry that you’ve dated some pretty rotten guys. This has not been my experience with men. I haven’t been on a date in roughly 20 years, but I never experienced this.

 

[JulianN]

Well, at least we can agree that each other’s wording sounds very odd to the other. Even in my parents’ day, the idea of the man being the head of the family was not something we saw in our family – and I had very devout parents. I’ve been married twice in the Church, and both priests pointed out that the word ‘obey’ was not in the Catholic wedding vows for a reason.

I am also bowing out at this point – I don’t think further discussion is fruitful.

 

[Sarcelle]

I did not hear such stuff from radical feminists but from men themselves. I also heard it from my parents who told me to pay my own way when out on a date to prevent this expectation from taking place.

I am also far from a radical feminist by the way.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I did not hear such stuff from radical feminists but from men themselves. I also heard it from my parents who told me to pay my own way when out on a date to prevent this expectation from taking place.

Hmm. That’s interesting. Not denying what you heard or were told. I just personally never heard that. I was always taught a gentleman pays a woman’s way. When my husband and I were dating I offered to pay once and he would not even hear of it.

My father and father in law always paid whenever our whole family was out. They would no way let any of the women pay.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

both priests pointed out that the word ‘obey’ was not in the Catholic wedding vows for a reason.

That changed with the new liturgy. The readings became optional. Traditionally Ephesians 5 was the nuptial reading at weddings. The prayers over the woman are just beautiful.

I think people in the past didn’t talk about the husband being the head of the family because people just knew he was.

When the head and the heart work together there is love and harmony and there isn’t a battle for each others role. They just work together.

 

[JulianN]

My parents married in 1955. It wasn’t in the vows then either. And according to my grandmother, it was not in their vows in 1922.

 

[StephenBales]

After reading other posts, I can’t help but have a bad taste in my mouth.
Yes, men, we ought to treat women differently. How big the difference, funnily enough, rather depends on how you treat fellow men as well. For example, I beat up on, prank, and jovially call my brother, father, and football and JROTC friends mean names all the time, but it is in a spirit of philia. It is not antagonistic, it is not vile, it is not indecent (I’ve grown up a Texas semi-country boy, though, so the standards may be different in other parts of the country and world). Though it is not meant to harm, I would not dream of doing these things to to my mother, sister, or any ladies I’m fond of.

Women, you are different. Y’all are in no ways less valuable than men, in several ways more valuable (forgive the imprecision of language; you know the sentiment In getting at) and worthy of respect. By men, you ought to be held as more sacred and worthy of protection. Before anyone jumps on me at that statement, examine attitudes of men and society as a whole toward women and children. “Women and children first.” It isn’t merely because women can make babies, but because it is the nature of men to be the first to die or be hurt, to sacrifice, that others may go before him and live. Yes, in a general sense, that’s true of everyone, but to ignore that it is particularly true for men is just silly, obtuse.

So yes. Men, keep yourself to a higher standard for the ladies in your life. It’s helpful to keep the attitude toward all, but particularly and in a more gentlemanly way toward ladies, “You are more important than me.”

 

[tafan2]

Well stated @StephenBales. Yes, women deserve greater respect and deference for no other reason than they are women. The greater sex (as opposed to.tge fairer sex)

 

[StephenBales]

I will not say greater. That’s where we disagree, I must say.

 

[tafan2]

It’s a little strong, meant along the lines of your “more important”, but I think I will stick with it.

 

[StephenBales]

Ah, ok.
Ten characters

 

[MarthaSo]

This is my life now and it’s terrible. I’m very blessed with a great family but i’m 8 months pregnant and work full time, I’m exhausted and must commute daily and have long 8 hour days away from home. I’ve had to work full time for three of my pregnancies. My biggest dream for the past 20 years was to stay home and raise my children. I’ve had to stop mentioning it to my husband because he admitted to feeling bad he couldn’t provide without my income. He said it in a way like that was his duty and I don’t want to ever see that pain he briefly showed again…so, I put it in God’s hands. It’s TERRIBLE for me, and many mothers, to hand our children over to strangers to put on a blazer and leave them to read reports for 8 hours st work in the secular world when your heart is at home but you can’t show it. Do that for 20 years. . It has felt unnatural for me for 2 decades. I don’t despair however because I know God knows full well where my hearts desire is, and I even thank Him for our dual incomes. But, my HEART is raising my children and keeping my home. I know some women shrug at this and to them it’s not a struggle, I can’t understand that because the most natural thing in the world to me, that would fulfill me to no end, is to have the chance to be with the infants and children I have borne on a daily and take care of my husband and home.

 

[Aquinas11]

Though it is not meant to harm, I would not dream of doing these things to to my mother, sister, or any ladies I’m fond of.

Women are fully capable of jovial fun and horseplay. In fact, it’s often the best way to diffuse an argument. Chase her into bedroom, pin her down as she giggles and tickle her until she says “ok!! Ok!!!” Works like a charm. She forgets what we were arguing about

 

[MagdalenaRita]

No, Catholic vows did not include the word “obey”, although the Nuptial Mass according to the 1962 (and earlier) missals did use Ephesians 5 as the Epistle reading.

My parents married in 1955. It wasn’t in the vows then either. And according to my grandmother, it was not in their vows in 1922.

You are correct. I reworded my post to clarify. The readings (at least they were for my wedding) today are optional. One does not necessarily have to have Ephesians 5 in their wedding Mass. In the pre-Vatican II nuptial Mass, the reading used was Ephesians 5:

Let women be subject to their
husbands as to the Lord; for the husband is
the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of
the Church. He is the savior of his body.
Therefore, as the Church is subject to Christ,
so also let the wives be to their husbands in
all things.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Women are fully capable of jovial fun and horseplay. In fact, it’s often the best way to diffuse an argument. Chase her into bedroom, pin her down as she giggles and tickle her until she says “ok!! Ok!!!” Works like a charm. She forgets what we were arguing about

Yes, but that is still not the same way, say young men act toward each other when they are wrestling and joking with each other.

I suspect that chasing and giggling works well with you and your wife but I am pretty sure a lot of women would not go along and forget what they were upset over.

 

[KathleenT]

Did you ever run into that expectation yourself? Or did you just hear about it second hand?

 

[babochka]

If I refused to let a man pay for a date, I would be sending a signal that I was not interested and did not want to encourage further dating, or perhaps that I didn’t really consider it a date , more of a “just friends” thing .

My husband tells me that men don’t usually understand women’s “clear” signals unless they involve extreme bluntness and actual words.

 

[Sarcelle]

I have ran into that expectation from a lot of men.

To be fair, the men who had that expectation made it clear when they asked for a date that’s what they expected.

Now I was an atheist when I was younger and was a part of a rougher crowd.

The experience may be different for a devout Catholic whose social circle will consist of other devout Catholics.

 

[babochka]

I have ran into that expectation from a lot of men.

To be fair, the men who had that expectation made it clear when they asked for a date that’s what they expected.

Now I was an atheist when I was younger and was a part of a rougher crowd.

The experience may be different for a devout Catholic whose social circle will consist of other devout Catholics.

This makes sense. I was pretty picky about the guys I dated. With one hand notable exception, who made me even more picky going forward.