Women, how should catholic men treat you?

[JulianN]

Well, that’s certainly an interesting conflation of concepts. Not sure how you got there.

 

[babochka]

At nine months pregnant with me, my mother found herself standing on busses due to men who hadn’t been raised properly!

This is terrible, but not something just for men to be aware of. I will gladly give up my seat to a pregnant woman or an elderly man or woman. I do usually wait a few minutes to see if there’s a man who will do it (because men should be doing it), and I’m cautious about offering my seat to elderly men because I don’t want to embarrass them.

I am also grateful when a man offers his seat to me, but if I should happen to say, “No, thank you, I’m fine”, I really am fine and he ought to respect that. To be continually harrassed into sitting when I would rather stand is a bit burdensome.

I seriously don’t get the opening the car door thing in the modern age, though. (When waiting to get out.) I’d graciously go along if it seemed important to him. It is just rather awkward to sit there waiting while a man walks around the car to open a door. It does not help in any way, even a small one. (Some of the other gestures mentioned can actually be helpful in some small way.)

 

[babochka]

I guess we just have different experiences. I know how to change the oil and a tire. And certainly put gas in my own car.

My dad made me learn how to change a tire and the oil - it was a requirement of getting a driver’s license in our family. Mind you, I’ve never done it since. He always did it, even well into my adulthood. He passed away a few months ago and I definitely miss being able to call upon him for that sort of thing.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

If you asked her on a date, you should pay. Once a relationship has been established, if both parties are working you should probably split the bill (but do whatever works for the couple). I would not particularly want a man pulling a chair out for me, opening a car door for me or picking something up for me… I appreciate the sentiment but find it old fashioned and somewhat annoying if the man gets bullheaded about doing it no matter what. I was taught to be polite and do that sort of thing for adults and it was jarring for me when I had my first professional job and suddenly had guys not letting me be polite anymore.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I seriously don’t get the opening the car door thing in the modern age, though. (When waiting to get out.) I’d graciously go along if it seemed important to him. It is just rather awkward to sit there waiting while a man walks around the car to open a door.

I have never waited for a man to open the door to let me out unless he asked me to wait while he got the door. That would have been for a particular reason such as ice or something out of the ordinary. Usually men open the door for a woman to get in the car or to go in a building.

 

[babochka]

babochka:

I seriously don’t get the opening the car door thing in the modern age, though. (When waiting to get out.) I’d graciously go along if it seemed important to him. It is just rather awkward to sit there waiting while a man walks around the car to open a door.

I have never waited for a man to open the door to let me out unless he asked me to wait while he got the door. That would have been for a particular reason such as ice or something out of the ordinary. Usually men open the door for a woman to get in the car or to go in a building.

Right. And if a man wants to open the car door for me when I’m getting in and it doesn’t require an awkward wait on my part, no problem. But it is also a thing to open the car door when you getting out.

As I type this, I’m remembering something that has happened several times in the last few weeks. We’ve been experiencing a lot of rain lately, and have arrived home more than once in the middle of an absolute deluge. My husband has been so kind as to fetch the umbrella in the middle of the downpour and bring it around to my side of the car so that I don’t get soaked. He has also escorted me, under the umbrella, to my side of the car for the same reason. Now, I’ve been the one doing the actual opening of the car door, but I have appreciated his chivalry very much in those moments.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I have appreciated his chivalry very much in those moments.

I think your husband doing those things is just awesome.

 

[lilypadrees]

Regardless of the man’s choice of church affiliation, I expect as a woman, to be treated with respect in every way.

 

[babochka]

babochka:

I have appreciated his chivalry very much in those moments.

I think your husband doing those things is just awesome.

Yes, it is. We’re not used to that sort of rain around here and we’re just coming out of a long drought, so I’ve been leaving the house quite unprepared for the weather. It isn’t really a problem for me to make a mad dash in the rain from the car to the house, but it is nice that I don’t have to. He doesn’t follow any set of rules about chivalry, he just does what he can to make my life easier.

 

[KathleenT]

How is being a pill about a man holding a door for you going to change his mind over if women should be a boss? It won’t.

The polite and well-mannered thing to do is give up the door and thank the man, if he indicates you should go first. Don’t get in a battle of wills over a door. Be gracious and move on.

Many parents teach their sons to hold doors for women. It has nothing to do with a woman’s ability to open her own door which is a ridiculous assumption. Men aren’t holding doors as an attempt to insult you or snicker at you. And if they were…so what? How does that have any impact on your life? If they are making fun of someone being gracious that’s more about them than the person they are supposedly making fun of.

I just don’t get what we are attempting to win with the door debate. My heart breaks a little every time I thank a man who opened the door for me and see surprise cross his face. Are we that nasty of a society?

 

[JulianN]

Nobody said we shouldn’t thank a man for opening a door. And it’s hardly ‘being a pill’ to find it uncomfortable to have a door I’m holding be jerked out of my hand. Why is it that the man can’t do what you suggest—say thank you and go through the door?

 

[KathleenT]

He shouldn’t jerk the door but generally you can see when someone is attempting to take the door. If you are holding the door, you have to be aware of your surroundings, including when someone is going to take over door duty.

Many men were raised to believe it is impolite to not let the woman enter first or hold the door for the woman. You know this. It isn’t a surprise to you.

It is about being gracious which as Christians we are all called to do. He is trying to be gracious and take over the door, and you have the opportunity to be gracious and let him.

 

[JulianN]

Again, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see it as being gracious; it comes across as controlling. Don’t misunderstand—if a man is ahead of me and opens a door, I’ll say thank you and go through. I appreciate the courtesy. I’d just like the gratitude reciprocated.

 

[KathleenT]

How is it controlling? You are going to have to explain that to me, especially since in 90% of these situations the woman doesn’t own the door.

The social norm is the man holds the door. You want your preference to top the social norm which is ungracious.

 

[JulianN]

The title of the thread posed a question. For me (doesn’t have to be the case for you), the answer is simply that I want to be treated as an equal. Of course I expect courtesy, as I expect to give it.

You may not have heard men complain that women shouldn’t expect to be treated differently if they expect to have authority in the workplace, but I certainly have. And I actually agree with them on this (although they usually tend to be men who’d prefer to hold the door and not have a woman boss).

I just think it’s a two-way street.

 

[dochawk]

I seriously don’t get the opening the car door thing in the modern age, though. (When waiting to get out.)

In the modern world, it is nothing more (or less) than a gesture of respect.

In that 1927 Cadillac I got to spend some time with, there was also the practical matter of helping her down from that height . . . [especially in 1920s skirts!]

[sidenote: it was the 1915 Cadillac that actually made it practical for women to drive. Someone Leyland knew was killed when the starting crank hit him in the head, and he set his engineers to design a starter. I can drive cars older than that, but I won’t risk my life starting one just to do it!]

My dad made me learn how to change a tire and the oil - it was a requirement of getting a driver’s license in our family. Mind you, I’ve never done it since.

So did mine–but I’ve changed a few, and found I had the wrong jack as recently as a year or two ago . . .

He always did it, even well into my adulthood. He passed away a few months ago and I definitely miss being able to call upon him for that sort of thing.

I still call mine for such things, even having reached the ages where I get the same calls . . . I called him from the Mecum auction about starting an old car (a Kaiser, irc)–and it turned out that his father had had the exact car. (I called him another couple time, but more to point out stuff he’d love . . .).

I have never waited for a man to open the door to let me out unless he asked me to wait while he got the door.

Give him a chance before getting out–if he’s coming around to do it, it night be a sign that you’ve found the right one . . (My [now] son in law actually asked my permission before throwing my daughter in the pool . . . [and, it was justified!] . . . {OK, so the bruise was in front of her heart, and the diagnostics at the ER cost me two grand . . . but worth every penny for what it showed me about him and respect for her . . })

[continued]

 

[dochawk]

It isn’t really a problem for me to make a mad dash in the rain from the car to the house, but it is nice that I don’t have to

Yeah, but . . . . . . I think it was about our second date, and it was pouring rain as we came out of the mall (unusual for Southern California!).

So I suggested that she stay at the entrance while I brought the car around.

“I won’t melt,” she said, and stayed with me . . . because she had spotted a massive puddle.

So after she stamped the puddle to splash me . . . I had her lifted in my arms, and was lowering it into it . . . when a police car came around the corner . . . so I put her down . . .

Not long after, I would learn that ECPD was a redneck police force, and they would have cheered me on . . . (but there was another fountain later after she splashed me, but that’s another story . . .)

simply that I want to be treated as an equal.

Equal?

You probably can’t carry as much as I can, and I could never bear a child.

Equal in dignity? Sure. Absolutely. But equal to one another? No–and like Mary, I think you got the better half. So be it; it is His design, not nine.

hawk, son of Martha

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Lots of men can carry more than other men. Does that make the weaker men less equal? Obviously no one person is equal to any other person. Equal in this context means, not less than. Just like a weak man or infertile woman is not less than a strong man or a fertile woman.

 

[Entwhistler]

Does that make the weaker men less equal?

Equality in what though? If I may dare to speak for the venerable dochawk, I think what he was saying is that men and women in a vacuum are absolutely the same…except for almost everything. We are equal in human nature and our inherent dignity from God. But we are very different.

Nothing like a little diversity anyway.

 

[dochawk]

Does that make the weaker men less equal?

Nothing I said suggest that. We are different, and calling groups “equal” does violence to the word.