Women in the Priesthood

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Roy5 said:
Women clergy? If women can become nuns why not priests?
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Perhaps this is part of the problem. From a Catholic point of view, nuns and brothers are not “mini-priests”. They are separate vocations.
 
tonyrey said:
simmslaw;5225420:
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFREPLY.HTM).
Thus, the Reply specifies that this doctrine belongs to the deposit of the faith of the Church. It should be emphasized that the definitive and infallible nature of this teaching of the Church
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did not arise with the publication of the Letter . In the Letter, as the Reply of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also explains, the Roman Pontiff, having taken account of present circumstances, has confirmed the same teaching by a formal declaration, giving expression once again to <quod semper, quad ubique et quod ab omnibus tenendum est, utpote ad fidei depositum pertinens.> In this case, an act of the ordinary papal Magisterium, in itself not infallible, witnesses to the infallibility of the teaching of a doctrine already possessed by the Church.
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Roy5 said:
WOMEN PRIESTS AND MARRIED CLERGY
Code: 
 I believe the church needs to move to be relevant to a changing society. To me, that may mean having women priests and certainly a married clergy. But as a Protestant, I know my views won't impress many.
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Consensus fidelium has always been an important element in the magisterium of the Catholic Church. There is dialogue throughout the world between the clergy and the laity whose experiences, sufferings and aspirations must be taken into account if the Church is to be truly Catholic.
There is a vast difference between the Church of the Apostles in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus and the Catholic Church throughout the world two thousand years later but it is the same Church He instituted. Its doctrines are not static but dynamic truths. They have developed and will continue to develop in the light of philosophical analysis, theological research, scientific discoveries, our understanding of human nature and changes in society.

The teaching that women cannot have a vocation to the priesthood is not infallible but considered binding. This implies that it is not irrevocable.

Welcome to this forum! I’m sure you will find it as stimulating and instructive as I do.🙂
 
to me
judge not lest ye be judged
yet its all about purity
even priests err too yet since i cannot judge
i ask that the body and blood of christ
remain pure holy and i want to think that the ppl consecrating it is totally pure all the time so we recieve in that pureness
hence thats why i think our priests cannot marry
as i know it touches on sexuality
and whether its pure or impure is quite another story
in old testamen tppl fell dead if impure and enterred the holy of holies
stimes its difficult to comprehend
now truly is it right for ppl just 30 mins ago indulged in any form of impurity now comes to consecrate hosts

it can be any wrong doing any blemish etc
yet i know what jesus made pure who is to condemn
so for me i will remain with men as priests till otherwise
too much neo gnosticsm
and we at times want to change mind of the creator
which we cannot even understand
if we have to dig deep dig into gods heart and mind
deep holy spirit pentecost vision
maybe there is the answer and i think the founding fathers of church the patriarchs knew and did what god directed them to do amen
 
tonyrey said:
I used the term “informed conscience” in response to Handsome Danger’s presumption that my conscience cannot be fully informed because I disagree with a particular teaching of the Church. Of course he also implies that my conscience is not well formed. Regardless of whether it is well formed he is reluctant to acknowledge the fact that everyone’s conscience is fallible yet it remains the ultimate authority.
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No, I will not acknowledge it, because it isn’t true. We are bound to follow our WELL FORMED conscience. A conscience becomes well formed via the authoritative teaching of The Church (among other things). If, then, one’s conscience is contradicting the authoritative teaching of The Church, it could not have been well formed. Now, we can still have a well formed conscience, and have it make mistakes (this doesn’t make the mistake not a mistake, but it could lessen culpability). However, what you are proposing is that we just throw out the authoritative teaching of The Church in favor of a conscience that has not been well formed.

Again, a truly Protestant idea. They believed their consciences were well formed, and therefore they should follow them instead of The Church. You are doing the same thing here. No matter how much society calls for it, women will never be priests in The Church. It cannot happen. She would be teaching heresy and she cannot, as she is guided by The Holy Spirit. Male-only priesthood IS dogmatic. It is infallible.

HD
 
tonyrey said:
Consensus fidelium has always been an important element in the magisterium of the Catholic Church. There is dialogue throughout the world between the clergy and the laity whose experiences, sufferings and aspirations must be taken into account if the Church is to be truly Catholic.
There is a vast difference between the Church of the Apostles in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus and the Catholic Church throughout the world two thousand years later but it is the same Church He instituted. Its doctrines are not static but dynamic truths. They have developed and will continue to develop in the light of philosophical analysis, theological research, scientific discoveries, our understanding of human nature and changes in society.

The teaching that women cannot have a vocation to the priesthood is not infallible but considered binding. This implies that it is not irrevocable.

Welcome to this forum! I’m sure you will find it as stimulating and instructive as I do.🙂
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Development is one thing.

Corruption is another.

Paul
 
Handsome_Danger said:
]f you do disagree with The Church on a matter of doctrine (which this is, and which you are not free to do, as a Catholic) then you would be separating yourself from The Church, in that you no longer believe what The Church believes
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Please explain how you define “doctrine”.
. It would logically follow that someone who has this belief would have an improperly formed conscience…as they are completely disregarding The Church’s authority.
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Do you regard the Church’s teaching that women cannot have a vocation to the priesthood as infallible?
. The Church EVER saying that women can be ordained as priests is doctrinally equivalent to The Church starting to teach that Jesus was not actually God.
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Please explain how saying women can be ordained as priests is doctrinally equivalent to The Church starting to teach that Jesus was not actually God. Do you mean the two doctrines are directly related?
 
tonyrey said:
Please explain how you define “doctrine”. Do you regard the Church’s teaching that women cannot have a vocation to the priesthood as infallible?
Please explain how saying women can be ordained as priests is doctrinally equivalent to The Church starting to teach that Jesus was not actually God. Do you mean the two doctrines are directly related?
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Doctrine, in the Catholic sense, is something that is part of the Deposit of Faith. No new doctrine was formed after the death of the last Apostle. Doctrine cannot be changed.

Yes, I and the rest of The Church regard The Church’s teaching that women cannot be ordained as priests is infallible. This was stated in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis as well as clarified, in no uncertain terms in Responsum ad Dubium, that it is a part of the Deposit of Faith and has been set forth infallibly. There is no doubt in The Church that it is infallible.

Because it is part of the Deposit of Faith, just as Jesus being God is part of the Deposit of Faith, if you were to say that one of the statements is not true, it would be the same as saying that the other was not true. They are both unchangeable statements, and to change one is just as much heresy as changing the other.

HD
 
There are a number of ways.

A true development will not deny what has gone before. It will be in harmony. It will be a logical development with what has gone before and not a contradiction.

Since in this case the Church has always believed that Men are the only valid candidates and the constant teaching of the magisterium has been that the sacrament would be invalid if conferred on a woman then the idea that women can be priests is a corruption of previous church teaching.

Paul
 
Why is it infallible?

Because the Pope said it was.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

paul
 
Handsome_Danger said:
No, I will not acknowledge it, because it isn’t true. We are bound to follow our WELL FORMED conscience. A conscience becomes well formed via the authoritative teaching of The Church (among other things)…
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What are the other things?
If, then, one’s conscience is contradicting the authoritative teaching of The Church, it could not have been well formed. Now, we can still have a well formed conscience, and have it make mistakes (this doesn’t make the mistake not a mistake, but it could lessen culpability).
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You are saying in effect:
We can have a well formed conscience which makes mistakes but if it makes the mistake of contradicting the Church it cannot have been well formed. By “authoritative” do you mean infallible in every respect?
However, what you are proposing is that we just throw out the authoritative teaching of The Church in favor of a conscience that has not been well formed.
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I am not proposing anything of the kind. I am simply saying each of us is morally obliged to believe what we believe is true. We can remain faithful to the teaching of the Church by obedience and faithful to what we believe by obedience to our conscience. If I regard the Church as fallible with regard to the ordination of women am I a heretic who should be excommunicated? If so there are millions of Catholics who are heretics who should be excommunicated because they reject the Church’s teaching on contraception and other doctrines.
Again, a truly Protestant idea. They believed their consciences were well formed, and therefore they should follow them instead of The Church. You are doing the same thing here. No matter how much society calls for it, women will never be priests in The Church. It cannot happen. She would be teaching heresy and she cannot, as she is guided by The Holy Spirit. Male-only priesthood IS dogmatic. It is infallible.
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Prescinding from the authority of the Church, can you give one theological reason why women cannot have a vocation to the priesthood? Why do you think God restricts the administration of the Sacraments to men (except Baptism of course)?
 
).
Thus, the Reply specifies that this doctrine belongs to the deposit of the faith of the Church. It should be emphasized that the** definitive and infallible nature of this teaching of the Church** did not arise with the publication of the Letter . In the Letter, as the Reply of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also explains, the Roman Pontiff, having taken account of present circumstances, has confirmed the same teaching by a formal declaration, giving expression once again to <quod semper, quad ubique et quod ab omnibus tenendum est, utpote ad fidei depositum pertinens.> In this case, an act of the ordinary papal Magisterium, in itself not infallible, witnesses to the infallibility of the teaching of a doctrine already possessed by the Church.
Click to expand...
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFREPLY.HTM).
 
tonyrey said:
Consensus fidelium has always been an important element in the magisterium of the Catholic Church.
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I’m glad you think so, because those rabbling for women’s ordination are still outnumbered by the Catholics of South America, Africa, and Asia plus the faithful of North America, Europe and Australia.
 
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