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johnstown_johnn
Guest
It is not necessary to state ex cathedra since it would be redundancy.
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Brady
Guest
There is no debate. No educated person will believe Paul taught otherwise. If we dont believe Paul there then we can believe nothing he said. Please dont use the weak defences like “what he really meant was not to ask questions.” I’m sorry but the only ones that believe that are the ones who want to. Like wives that believe cheating husbands no matter how bad the story. And oral tradition and scriptural must agree. There will be no change here unless the church decides to become wolves whispering what others want to hear.
Hey!, there are parts I’d like to change myself, but in for a penny in for a pound.
Hey!, there are parts I’d like to change myself, but in for a penny in for a pound.
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Javierps
Guest
Folks, I think this horse has been beat to death! there is truth and there is confusion. the truth has been stated and hopefully with the help of the Holy Spirit the confusion in our brothers thoughts will be resolved in good time.
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Steeltemplar
Guest
I suppose that the subject has been fairly well trodden here. At the same time, the volume of orthodox responses here is heartening. It is nice to see solidarity like this for our Church’s doctrine - especially when it is one so contrary to secular thinking.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Steeltemplar:
“The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?”
“The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?”
- The best video game plot ever
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djranke
Guest
It seems to me that these women are entering the Catholic Faith for the wrong reasons! While persecution is not an ideal situation, these women seem to be taking the whole idea of the priesthood rather lightly and selfishly. I hope there is more to their "conversion than just this.
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otjm
Guest
I think people are being presumptious that they can have any idea whatsoever as to why these women are entering the Church. From the news, it appears that they were badly treated within their own Church. Precious little else seems to haveactually been said about their conversion process.
It appears that this collectively may have caused them to reconsider what Church means, how it is defined, and that they looked at their own faith system and found it came up short.
To presume that this was some sort of simplistic reaction on their part, something bordering an a knee-jerk reaction is to put into the story information that simply does not exist.
We all need to remember that the public press is in the business of producing newspapers for one main objective - to make a profit. Given that objective, anything “juicy” is worthy of print; and they only need to report that part which seems the “juciest”; they have not lied by leaving out details - at least actively - and we are left to fill in the blanks.
Add to this the fact that many reporters of faith issues have little or no training in faith issues, and could miss the elephant in the room because they have not been taught to see, and one is left with the caution not to presume that the reporter got the facts straight.
The comments herein this thread border on judgementalism in presupposing what actually motivated these women to convert, and it further seems to presuppose bad faith, or something bordering on it, for the priest or bishop who brought thenm into the faith.
Rather than assuming these women came in because of a petulant snit over their treatment, it would seem that the Christian reaction should be one of welcoming them in. It may well be that their conversion was not in good faith; but without some actual information that could be trusted, I fail to see how we are all arriving at such suppositions.
If further information comes forth, for example, that they are agitating for ordination of women within the Catholic Church, then, and only then, might we be able to think that their conversion may have been for the wrong reason. As far as I can tell, we do not have such information.
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cbrownell
Guest
There is no such thing as a “woman priest.” A priest by its definition is a man. There are priests and priestesses. And the Anglican church is divided about this, apparently just like the Catholic Church…
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cbrownell
Guest
P.S. I recently converted from Anglicanism. I just thank God that the Catholic Church is not really divided by this, not in any way that really matters. This is part of the reason I came over: I was tired of playing doctrinal roulette.
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Steeltemplar
Guest
I would say the Catholic Church is not really divided about it. It is a matter of doctrine that only men may be ordained. There is no debate and no room for it, thankfully.
Some who consider themselves Catholics disagree with the Church’s doctrine on the matter. However, that does not make the matter open, since doctrine is unchanging.
So I would not really say the Church is divided on the matter. The issue is decided and Pope John-Paul II reiterated that.
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Steeltemplar
Guest
Welcome then
And yes you are correct, there is no question about it (as I said in my above post).
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cbrownell
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Yes, I was frustrated when I wrote my first post. I realized I was posting in anger (not a very nice way to post), so I went back and posted my P.S. Thanks Steel!
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bpbasilphx
Guest
**This has been infallibly declared by the Church on a number of occasions. **
Please list three such occasions.
Please list three such occasions.
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Athanasiy
Guest
The Church’s teachings had undergone a great change , especially over the past hundred years.
Yes. Those changes were the results of the awareness of the historical circumstances.
The problem now is that there is a new level of consciousness with regard to the position of women in the world.
Its true that too often , sexuality is used to reinforce male dominative power.
The woman today do not want to be the stereotipes of sexual inferiority.
There is a risk that the most inteligent woman , who blame the Vatican of not speaking their language will go away.
Yes , the women also can be the images of Christ , no doubt.
The reality that the church is becoming feminized is not a problem , but feminisi church is a problem.
The facts that , Jesus did not choose women to be apostles , the apostolic church did not accept the greek practice of priestess ,that Jesus did not entrust the apostles charge to his mother , all these facts of course can be ignored and interpreted in the different light.
But , I think that the problem is not in the cultural patterns of another era , the problem is in the selfishness , which is dressed up in a new cultural framework.
Yes. Those changes were the results of the awareness of the historical circumstances.
The problem now is that there is a new level of consciousness with regard to the position of women in the world.
Its true that too often , sexuality is used to reinforce male dominative power.
The woman today do not want to be the stereotipes of sexual inferiority.
There is a risk that the most inteligent woman , who blame the Vatican of not speaking their language will go away.
Yes , the women also can be the images of Christ , no doubt.
The reality that the church is becoming feminized is not a problem , but feminisi church is a problem.
The facts that , Jesus did not choose women to be apostles , the apostolic church did not accept the greek practice of priestess ,that Jesus did not entrust the apostles charge to his mother , all these facts of course can be ignored and interpreted in the different light.
But , I think that the problem is not in the cultural patterns of another era , the problem is in the selfishness , which is dressed up in a new cultural framework.
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chevalier
Guest
“Denomination” is a misleading concept. The Catholic Church is the Church in terms of deposit of faith and succession. All the (validly) baptised are members of the Church, as well, even if they are not Catholic. At any rate, “Catholic” is not the same as “Orthodox”, “Protestant”, “Seventh Day”, “Baptist” etc. It’s not one of alternative offers - it’s the Church from which certain groups have to varying degrees broken out, so it’s not two competing denominations because we aren’t one.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
One of Mary’s many titles is Mary the First Christian. She was Jesus’ first and most perfect disciple. She certainly reflected Christ’s image. As women we would do well to emulate her. She spent most of her time (as far as the Bible reports it) pondering all these things in her heart. Hers was a life of prayer, obedience.and service. Jesus sent the disciples out to be priests and bishops. He didn’t send Mary to do that task, instead He gave her to His beloved disciple.
As far as I am concerned that is all that needs to be said on the topic. Let the men perform the mission Jesus gave His male disciples. Let women follow Mary’s example.
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gsaman
Guest
The mistake many people make is in thinking that unless we can all do exactly the same things then we are not equal. This is false. Our equality is not based on what we can or cannot do but on the fact that we are human persons loved by God. A priest is a servant who is suppose to “pour himself out” for his people; similarly, we are all called to do this in different ways. To think that we all have to be able to be priests to be equal is a kind of elitist attitude that diminishes the Christian vocation to serve Christ wherever we are and whatever we do…Bizarre - they may be persecuted but at least in the Anglican Church they can BE priests
Don’t forget, The greatest creature ever created by God is a woman: Mary.
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cbrownell
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Do women ever think that the Lord is protecting them by not calling them to be priests, the same way that he protected Mary from the persecution that his apostles faced? No, of course not. We only see “Hey, he’s got a little bit of power. I gotta git me some of that.” I frankly am a woman happy to someday fulfill my role as a wife and mother. I have had lots of success in my career; I have proved to myself that I am smart and good enough (just in case I didn’t believe Christ when He told me that.) It would only be pride that would drive me to desire a life that was not meant for me.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Many years ago I was at a Full Gospel Businessmen’s lunch when an Orthodox bishop visited I think he was from Australia}. Someone asked him about women clergy. He pointed out that there was nothing a woman could do in their church that a woman couldn’t do in the his. However, there were things an ordained man could do in his church that no one could do in theirs.
A bit blunt maybe, but the best answer I have heard.
A bit blunt maybe, but the best answer I have heard.
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SylviaJDavila
Guest
God gave only to women, the ability to bear children! That is our vocation. Not men nor even angels can do this. Period. God, doesn’t make mistakes! The priestly vocation is for man only and our vocation is for motherhood.
God gave His mother,(“Woman, behold your son.”), to all mankind, and all mankind, to His mother,(“Behold, your mother.”).
God gave His mother,(“Woman, behold your son.”), to all mankind, and all mankind, to His mother,(“Behold, your mother.”).
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