Women priests become Catholics

[Marsha_Adams]

God gave only to women, the ability to bear children! That is our vocation. Not men nor even angels can do this. Period. God, doesn’t make mistakes! The priestly vocation is for man only and our vocation is for motherhood.
God gave His mother,(“Woman, behold your son.”), to all mankind, and all mankind, to His mother,(“Behold, your mother.”).

Motherhood is certainly a vocation, and only women have it. But the way you phrased it above, it sounds as though it is a universal vocation for women and I am sure that is not what you meant. Many women have a vocation to the single life and to the religious life.

 

[SylviaJDavila]

Not all men are called to be priests. Not all women are called to be mothers.

 

[cbrownell]

Not to change the subject, but anyone have some wise words for a woman who feels called to be a wife and mother, but can’t find a husband? I am looking in all the right places (church, ave maria), but I am discouraged because I have gotten a lot of rejection lately…

 

[Steeltemplar]

Not to change the subject, but anyone have some wise words for a woman who feels called to be a wife and mother, but can’t find a husband? I am looking in all the right places (church, ave maria), but I am discouraged because I have gotten a lot of rejection lately…

Yes, we shouldn’t get off-topic much, but as it is such a noble goal you have I wanted to reply to it.

Since I am a man and unmarried, I don’t really have any specific advice. But I believe that if you seek to follow God’s will in your life, then it will bring you closer to where He wants you to go. That could well mean having a family. In the mean time, ask the Lord for patience and wisdom.

Take heart - there are men out there who certainly dream of having a good Catholic family. I know I do.

---

On the topic, I agree that women do have a special calling available in motherhood. After all, there are few people who have as much effect on a person’s life as their mother.

 

[Athanasiy]

One of Mary’s many titles is Mary the First Christian. She was Jesus’ first and most perfect disciple. She certainly reflected Christ’s image. As women we would do well to emulate her. She spent most of her time (as far as the Bible reports it) pondering all these things in her heart. Hers was a life of prayer, obedience.and service. Jesus sent the disciples out to be priests and bishops. He didn’t send Mary to do that task, instead He gave her to His beloved disciple.

As far as I am concerned that is all that needs to be said on the topic. Let the men perform the mission Jesus gave His male disciples. Let women follow Mary’s example.

I agree.
And also , God does not deny for a woman - universal priesthood.
I mean the priesthood to which every one of us is called.

 

[CreedalCatholic]

To me, this begs the question. Can women priests still have their so-called role (pardon me for sounding arrogant or prejudiced in any sense. My vocabulary is limited) carry over into the Church?

For instance, there are converts who carry their priesthood by approval of the pope. There are convert-married priests. If married priests are allowed to be in the priesthood, then are women priests allowed?

Although I do not know a whole lot about the Catechism and Canon law, I do know some biblical identities of the Church.

Where are there any doubting Mary’s and Martha’s in Scripture?

The reason I ask, there were very fearful and doubting men in Scripture (I’m not trying to make an absolute identity of a man’s psychy. For instance, St. John the Apostle was at Mary’s side and did look upon Christ on the Cross.)

Let’s look at Mary the mother of Christ, Mary Magdalene, and Martha (You know, Martha, Martha, you are worried…):

First, Our Blessed Lady had the grace to face Joseph’s initial doubts (Her chaste spouse.) Mary had the grace and strength to be at Her Son’s side. She was present in the upper room during Pentecost. Our Lady was very brave. How could a mother see her son slain on a cross?

Second, Mary Magdalene was brave enough to cry in confession, reconciliation, and contrition before Christ and the pharsaic elders (whom were notorious for stoning woman for grave sins.) Where can someone get that strength?

Finally, Martha toiled so much that Christ offered her consolation in presenting Mary (her sister) ‘choosing the better.’ So, Martha wasn’t afraid of Him. She was worried about ‘many things.’ Martha may seem to have appeared uncertain. On the other hand, she didn’t need to ask Christ to help her in her unbelief.

Let’s look at Peter, Paul, and Thomas:

First, Peter couldn’t walk on water without Christ holding him up, and he denied three times to know Christ.

Second, Paul was quite fearful of what Christians might think of him. Paul was especially blind for some time and needed confidence.

Finally, doubting Thomas needed to touch the wounds of Christ and ask Him to help him in his unbelief.

In conclusion:

Men have a different psychy than women in the presence of Christ. A male priest must realize the necessity to ask God for faith in His Presence. (Side note: I don’t doubt women have their share of fear and doubting. Consider St. Therese Liseux’s and Blessed Mother Theresa’s journey in the dark night of their souls.) Yet, a man must hold and touch Christ’s side. He must be able to witness the very presence of Him. A man must truly engage himself to Christ’s body.

To explain the limiting factor:

If women feel any objection or any limiting factor on the basis here, then it is a limiting degree in which (I feel) a person reads Scripture. The limit is (kind of like fundamentalism) degrading one’s self in a position or role in Christ’s Church. That is, there are women who tend to make a superior look at men and feel threatened in those feelings (again, I don’t doubt there maybe men who feel superior. No man should feel any superiority above another person because of some sort of gender establishment [We are not born of a spirit of opression nor of the flesh, we are born in the spirit of adoption and from above.])

A little help from the saints:

St. Theresa of Avila and St. John Chrysostom knew each other. In fact, both Theresa of Avila and St. John Chrysostom respected Christ presently with each other in their vocations. You know the Discalced Carmelites owe their order to St. Theresa of Avila. Also, St. Theresa’s wirtten works have helped many on a spiritual journey (men and women.)

 

[geezerbob]

Creedal, the linked article plainly states that these women are entering the Church as laymen, so I don’t understand why all the questions about accepting them as priests.

 

[Athanasiy]

The women are increasingly placed in the policy formation and decision - making levels within the Catholic Church.

Do we underestimate the feminism movement ?

I am far from being historian , and I am very far from understanding the tensions of Catholicism in Democratic America with Hierarchical Church , but I think that there was a time in the history when the submision to the Hierarchical Church was much more important than so called ’ faithfulness to the book ', and at the present time with the regards of ordaining women , I think this is the time when the submission to the Hierarchical Church is much more important than to heed the voice of the modern age .

Its more about discipline , than it is about inflexible patriarchal structures and spirit.

Two Catholicisms ( I mean one in America and one in Rome , ) is a tragedy.

For example;
-The priests who represent the ministry for the sexual minorities is a tragedy. ( even if the sexual minorities returning to the faith and develop sacramental and prayer life, and themselves entering the priesthood)

The women in the priesthood is not the same matter of course , but its a problem of disobedience to the Hierarchical Church.
I wouldn’t call them the guardians of the Catholic orthodoxy.

 

[Athanasiy]

To me, this begs the question. Can women priests still have their so-called role (pardon me for sounding arrogant or prejudiced in any sense. My vocabulary is limited) carry over into the Church?

For instance, there are converts who carry their priesthood by approval of the pope. There are convert-married priests. If married priests are allowed to be in the priesthood, then are women priests allowed?

I was converted not long time ago.
I have just my opinion about this.

I think the women in the priesthood is different.

We live in the modern age which forces the woman to stop to be a woman , and even forces the man to cease to relate to woman as a man.
The modern age is loosing the idea of beauty , idea of love , idea of marriage .
The modern age is loosing the definition of sexuality , the healthy attitude towards sex.
There is a wrong understanding of idea of liberty , and wrong understanding of ’ sexual repression’.
The modern age who suppose to deliver women from being a ’ property’ , makes women more into property.

I think that the Church’s authorities , who refuse ’ the women in priesthood ’ , realize all the violations of God’s projects , order and designs , which are taking place in the modern world.

Therefore when the church does not ordain women , I don’t think it has to do with indifference to the potential of women.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

To me, this begs the question. Can women priests still have their so-called role (pardon me for sounding arrogant or prejudiced in any sense. My vocabulary is limited) carry over into the Church?

For instance, there are converts who carry their priesthood by approval of the pope. There are convert-married priests. If married priests are allowed to be in the priesthood, then are women priests allowed? . . .

The terminology carry over is misleading. Those who held ministerial roles in other communities are laymen in the eyes of the Catholic Church. There is no ordination to carry over. However, men may have training and experience that can be carried over. This may speed their training if they wish to be ordained as priests. And there is special permission for them to be ordained even if married.

This route is not open to women because it has been declared that the Church has no power to ordain women.

 

[slyboots]

Greg 72 said:
“A co-worker of mine had been instructed (in a Catholic College) that, among other things, women could become Priests. I had spent quite a while explaining to her why this couldn’t be so (and why it wasn’t in the past, regardless of what her teacher taught) and shortly thereafter I caught that show. I then told her that I was wrong and that I’d have to look into how the change could come about. Now I’ll have to tell her that my initial belief was right - so she’ll likely think that I don’t really know what the hell I’m talking about since it seems to change from day-to-day, whereas her feminist teacher, whose beliefs are unchanging, does.”

Once again the teachings of the Church are being manhandled by academia. Feminist teeacher? Maybe?
I did not leave the Episcopal Church because of Women Priests. I knew some women truely devoted to their flocks. Good women with good intentions. But misdirected women just the same.
My family all left the Episcopal Church because of it’s wrong headed notions about scripture, authority, faith and doctrine. The mil and fil left to go to an Anglican church. The rest of us came home by the moving of our hearts and spirits by a loving God who never gave up on us.
JPII made it final as far as I can see. Women are not made to be priests.

 

[jimmy]

The discussion and debate are still ongoing in the Catholic Church.

No it isn’t. JPII made this absolutely clear. THere can’t be women priests no matter what.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Greg 72 said:
“A co-worker of mine had been instructed (in a Catholic College) that, among other things, women could become Priests. I had spent quite a while explaining to her why this couldn’t be so (and why it wasn’t in the past, regardless of what her teacher taught) and shortly thereafter I caught that show. I then told her that I was wrong and that I’d have to look into how the change could come about. Now I’ll have to tell her that my initial belief was right - so she’ll likely think that I don’t really know what the hell I’m talking about since it seems to change from day-to-day, whereas her feminist teacher, whose beliefs are unchanging, does.”

Once again the teachings of the Church are being manhandled by academia. Feminist teeacher? Maybe?
I did not leave the Episcopal Church because of Women Priests. I knew some women truely devoted to their flocks. Good women with good intentions. But misdirected women just the same.
My family all left the Episcopal Church because of it’s wrong headed notions about scripture, authority, faith and doctrine. The mil and fil left to go to an Anglican church. The rest of us came home by the moving of our hearts and spirits by a loving God who never gave up on us.
JPII made it final as far as I can see. Women are not made to be priests.

I will lay you odds 100 to 1 that the teacher who informed your friend that women could be priests was a Dominican Sister. The Dominican Sisters have long publically admitted that they work hard to get teaching positions in Catholic universities and seminaries because by doing so they can impact future decision making in the Church. You remember the old adage that the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. The Dominican Sisters believe that by teaching the future priests they can inflict their thoughts on the Church. To a large extent in the U.S. they have been successful.

 

[Athanasiy]

I will lay you odds 100 to 1 that the teacher who informed your friend that women could be priests was a Dominican Sister. The Dominican Sisters have long publically admitted that they work hard to get teaching positions in Catholic universities and seminaries because by doing so they can impact future decision making in the Church. You remember the old adage that the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. The Dominican Sisters believe that by teaching the future priests they can inflict their thoughts on the Church. To a large extent in the U.S. they have been successful.

That’s interesting , the people who grew up in democratic culture are challenging the Catholic orthodoxy , having their own vision regarding priesthood.

Our opponents who defend the ’ women in priesthood ’ could say that the ability to make free decisions is God given ability , and today in the up to date world its not really possible to force people to think what they must to think.

I was also thinking that there are many things in this life , which are not about the certainty but about the search.

For example ;
There were the times when there were debates about slavery , usury , ecumenical initiatives , cremation , or if capitalism should be accepted gradually or not accepted…
The former positions of the church , had been officially and dramatically reversed.
And our opponents would say that the obedience is not always right response , and would say that there is a difference between the ordinary teachings and infallible teachings.

Why do I agree with the Vatican teaching about the Priesthood , its because , as I mentioned before in another words , that the women in priesthood in my opinion is not proper modernization of the Catholic teaching.
And one ( among other reasons ) is that Catholicism has a mission to cure the modern society.
Catholicism by its position , shows that the modern society , which increasingly insist on the strange understanding of equality, has to return to modesty , has to return to the aknowledgement of the vallue of innocence , to the vallue of romantical which is crushed and trampled down today , the modern society has to recover of what is trully beautiful in women.
I think that inflexibility of Vatican teaching is connected with this understanding.

 

[Cathy]

And one ( among other reasons ) is that Catholicism has a mission to cure the modern society.
Catholicism by its position , shows that the modern society , which increasingly insist on the strange understanding of equality, has to return to modesty , has to return to the aknowledgement of the vallue of innocence , to the vallue of romantical which is crushed and trampled down today , the modern society has to recover of what is trully beautiful in women.
I think that inflexibility of Vatican teaching is connected with this understanding.

Thank you very much, Athenasiy, for expressing what needs to be said here in the US. We women in some parts of the US have been hounded into thinking we must be like men to have a life worth living.

My father, a physician, taught me, mistakenly, that there’s no essential difference in the way men and women think. I tried hard, as a geologist, to act and work like a man, but I just couldn’t fit into that mold. I have spent the rest of my life since then trying to discover what it means to be a woman and to learn to honor womanhood. I find no better place to do that than in the Catholic Church, which honors a woman, Mother Mary, as God’s masterpiece. After reading Pope John Paul II’s love letter to women (although he just called it a “letter to women,” I fell head over heels in love with the Church which loves me with the Love of Christ.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Thank you very much, Athenasiy, for expressing what needs to be said here in the US. We women in some parts of the US have been hounded into thinking we must be like men to have a life worth living.

My father, a physician, taught me, mistakenly, that there’s no essential difference in the way men and women think. I tried hard, as a geologist, to act and work like a man, but I just couldn’t fit into that mold. I have spent the rest of my life since then trying to discover what it means to be a woman and to learn to honor womanhood. I find no better place to do that than in the Catholic Church, which honors a woman, Mother Mary, as God’s masterpiece. After reading Pope John Paul II’s love letter to women (although he just called it a “letter to women,” I fell head over heels in love with the Church which loves me with the Love of Christ.

**Cathy, this is a rare post from a rare woman in these times. You are the epitome of true, Godly womanhood. Awesome! **

 

[Athanasiy]

Thank you very much, Athenasiy, for expressing what needs to be said here in the US. We women in some parts of the US have been hounded into thinking we must be like men to have a life worth living.

My father, a physician, taught me, mistakenly, that there’s no essential difference in the way men and women think. I tried hard, as a geologist, to act and work like a man, but I just couldn’t fit into that mold. I have spent the rest of my life since then trying to discover what it means to be a woman and to learn to honor womanhood. I find no better place to do that than in the Catholic Church, which honors a woman, Mother Mary, as God’s masterpiece. After reading Pope John Paul II’s love letter to women (although he just called it a “letter to women,” I fell head over heels in love with the Church which loves me with the Love of Christ.

Thanks
Actually , I think its not just America , its a time like this.
There is a greater knowledge of human sexuality , there are also the tremendous shifts in the roles of women in the world.

A few days ago , there was interesting program on the EWTV , the Father Richard Gerachy was answering the questions about , how to react when the priests abuse its ministry office.
There was said that , there was a time when there was a corruption of the priests , and reformers came and people have got tired from the priests , from sacraments , and later eventually they have got tired from their own sins.
And Father Richard said that , the Catholics go to Christ through mediators.’

So , in Catholicism the reverence paid to the clergy , and the institute of priesthood , must be meaningful.

 

[Athanasiy]

God gave only to women, the ability to bear children! That is our vocation. Not men nor even angels can do this. Period. God, doesn’t make mistakes! The priestly vocation is for man only and our vocation is for motherhood.
God gave His mother,(“Woman, behold your son.”), to all mankind, and all mankind, to His mother,(“Behold, your mother.”).

Its actually not according to the context of our topic , but I have noticed very striking expression which I was not even thinking about . I mean;
-… nor even angels can do this.
I have the Hebrew-Greek key study Bible.
Its interesting that the English and also , Slavic languages do not express the exact meaning of the word in Genesis 3:16.
In original the word ‘hard work’ , or ‘labor is used’ , but English translation uses the word ‘pain’.
I think the original language gives more exact and more noble meaning of the word.

 

[pappy]

The document that people are referring to is JPII’s “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS” vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

He wrote:
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32)** I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.**

 

[RCSeminarian]

The document that people are referring to is JPII’s “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS” vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

He wrote:
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32)** I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.**

To add to his “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis” Pope Benedict XVI has gone further and expressed that anyone who even attempts to ordain a woman in any way will be excommunicated.