women's authority in the church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blue_Jr
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Women have a lot of authority in the Church, but it is in the family, not in the holy orders.

My diocese has been turned over to women, and it is going down in flames. If having women all over the place was supposed to do something, it hasn’t.

I’m a man and I’ve had the door slammed in my face in church matters. I’ve volunteered for things and been explicitly and deliberately turned away. Most men have no authority in the church, either. Ever notice that?

having said that, we see that women gain more authority in the church when they are educated and trained to take leadership roles especially in evangelization and education. I think it’s precisely because so many women have abandoned the consecrated life that the Church has the evangelization crisis that it has.

the more decadent society becomes, the MORE of a leadership role dedicated women can have in the Church and in the world.
 
Women have a lot of authority in the Church, but it is in the family, not in the holy orders.

My diocese has been turned over to women, and it is going down in flames. If having women all over the place was supposed to do something, it hasn’t.

I’m a man and I’ve had the door slammed in my face in church matters. I’ve volunteered for things and been explicitly and deliberately turned away. Most men have no authority in the church, either. Ever notice that?

having said that, we see that women gain more authority in the church when they are educated and trained to take leadership roles especially in evangelization and education. I think it’s precisely because so many women have abandoned the consecrated life that the Church has the evangelization crisis that it has.

the more decadent society becomes, the MORE of a leadership role dedicated women can have in the Church and in the world.
Nicely said. In my time working at various parishes, I had a lot of women attempt to give me orders (and attempt to order the priest around, too). Aside from the priests, only one man has tried to boss me around, and he, at least, had a position as employee at the same church so it wasn’t quite the same thing.
 
I just can´t believe this is really happening…what authority are you talking about when a woman gives Communion?
So sorry to hear we are such a disgrace.Maybe this is the MIddle East and my GPS is not working…:rolleyes:
 
My opinions are that women shouldn’t be in the sanctuary, and there should be no extraordinary ministers period.

However, what we like isn’t what we get. Around here I’ve witnessed:
  1. The older women running the parish.
  2. A woman as head of the diocesan Office of Divine Worship.
  3. A woman as chancellor of the diocese.
  4. About 95% of the EMHCs being women.
  5. About 75% of the servers being girls.
Usually when the women come in, the men start going. That’s how I’ve seen it play out.
Are you sure that you’re problem is with women in certain positions or with your preferences. Allow me explain.

In the diocese where we live, we have a sister as the chancellor. She’s excellent. We’ve always had men. None of them ever did the kind of work that Sister does. She has the entire diocese recovering from the days of silliness as I like to call them.

We have a sister from another congregation who is the head of the Office for Liturgy. She has an STD, which most priests do not have and she is an excellent liturgist. She has saved the Ordinary Form from chaos and has instituted the Extraordinary Form. Even the bishop celebrates it. She goes around to parishes and trains priests to celebrate the EF.

Our Vicar for Religious is a Sister, even though 98% of our religious are male. She is also a Canon Lawyer. Therefore, she knows religious law as well as she knows her breviary. There is nothing that religious and religious superiors can ask her that she does not know how to answer. She is an excellent bridge between those of us who are major superiors and the bishop. She understands us and she understands him. She is in the right spot. None of the male religious mind her being there.

In my community we have only 10% of our brothers are priests. Ninety percent are not. We have a brother, who is not a priest, but is a Doctor of Ministry who a parish administrator and one brother who is a priest is his assistant. The parish has no pastor, because the non-clerical brother cannot be pastor, obviously. The parish has 600 kids in CCD. It has eight masses every weekend with about 800 people at each mass and more than 35 different ministries. It’s mortgage is paid off. Brother is an excellent spiritual director and pastoral counselor.

The brother who is a priest celebrates mass, hears confession and then goes to the centers where he serves as a counselor. He’s excellent at it.

Despite the fact that we have priests, I was appointed superior general and I am not a priest. Traditionally, the post of superior general is held by a priest. I did not run for office. We didn’t even have an election. It was an appointment that came from the Church herself. I would not have wanted the post in the first place.

My point is that we’re seeing many posts that were once held by priests held by other people, not just women. But these other people do a very good job. There are many positions in the Church that were held by men simply because it was a male dominated Church. Women were not allowed to study theology until the 1970s. Seminaries were always for men only. Women studied education, sciences, nursing, social work, art and other humanities.

Today, women can be canon lawyers, theologians, philosophers, scripture scholars, and pastoral administrators if they have the qualifications. If you visit the Vatican today, you would be surprised at the number of women who run departments at the Vatican. The only posts that are strictly reserved for men are those that require that the person be a priest. Those are usually the prefects. You will also find many religious brothers from different communities running ministries, offices and departments in the Church that were once run by priests. That’s because from Vatican I to Vatican II religious brothers were reduced to teaching, nursing and serving priests. Once the Church told them to go back to their original charism, Dominican brothers became theologians again. Franciscan brothers became preachers again. Jesuit brothers became professors of theology again. Carmelite brothers took over parishes and parish ministries again

It’s not just women that are moving into these positions. To say so would be incorrect. There are more women than let’s say religious brothers. The reason is obvious. There are less religious brothers than there are women. The other issue is that most priests are not theologians, canon lawyers, scripture scholars, philosophers or trained administrators.

Today’s parish is much more complex than it was 50 years ago. Take this whole issue with the HHS mandate. Pastors call the Office for Respect Life asking how far they can go without falling into the pit, because they don’t know how the mandate works and they don’t know the finer points of moral theology. They studies all of the areas that I mentioned above, but they took one or two courses during the four years that it takes to get an M.Div. These other people, who are specialists, male or female, are most welcome by the pastors. The pastors don’t want to go on for further education. They’re happy doing what they do and they are good at it. But they often need the expert to handle certain things. Finances is always a big one and the other big area is Canon Law.

Don’t be so hard on these women and don’t think for one second that they are incompetent. Most are very competent. Also, not all of these posts are held by women, even though they are held by people who are not priests.

I guess my question is whether your objection is that these are not priests or that they are not males. Incompetent and competent people come in both genders.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Are you sure that you’re problem is with women in certain positions or with your preferences. Allow me explain.

In the diocese where we live, we have a sister as the chancellor. She’s excellent. We’ve always had men. None of them ever did the kind of work that Sister does. She has the entire diocese recovering from the days of silliness as I like to call them.

We have a sister from another congregation who is the head of the Office for Liturgy. She has an STD, which most priests do not have and she is an excellent liturgist. She has saved the Ordinary Form from chaos and has instituted the Extraordinary Form. Even the bishop celebrates it. She goes around to parishes and trains priests to celebrate the EF.

Our Vicar for Religious is a Sister, even though 98% of our religious are male. She is also a Canon Lawyer. Therefore, she knows religious law as well as she knows her breviary. There is nothing that religious and religious superiors can ask her that she does not know how to answer. She is an excellent bridge between those of us who are major superiors and the bishop. She understands us and she understands him. She is in the right spot. None of the male religious mind her being there.

In my community we have only 10% of our brothers are priests. Ninety percent are not. We have a brother, who is not a priest, but is a Doctor of Ministry who a parish administrator and one brother who is a priest is his assistant. The parish has no pastor, because the non-clerical brother cannot be pastor, obviously. The parish has 600 kids in CCD. It has eight masses every weekend with about 800 people at each mass and more than 35 different ministries. It’s mortgage is paid off. Brother is an excellent spiritual director and pastoral counselor.

The brother who is a priest celebrates mass, hears confession and then goes to the centers where he serves as a counselor. He’s excellent at it.

Despite the fact that we have priests, I was appointed superior general and I am not a priest. Traditionally, the post of superior general is held by a priest. I did not run for office. We didn’t even have an election. It was an appointment that came from the Church herself. I would not have wanted the post in the first place.

My point is that we’re seeing many posts that were once held by priests held by other people, not just women. But these other people do a very good job. There are many positions in the Church that were held by men simply because it was a male dominated Church. Women were not allowed to study theology until the 1970s. Seminaries were always for men only. Women studied education, sciences, nursing, social work, art and other humanities.

Today, women can be canon lawyers, theologians, philosophers, scripture scholars, and pastoral administrators if they have the qualifications. If you visit the Vatican today, you would be surprised at the number of women who run departments at the Vatican. The only posts that are strictly reserved for men are those that require that the person be a priest. Those are usually the prefects. You will also find many religious brothers from different communities running ministries, offices and departments in the Church that were once run by priests. That’s because from Vatican I to Vatican II religious brothers were reduced to teaching, nursing and serving priests. Once the Church told them to go back to their original charism, Dominican brothers became theologians again. Franciscan brothers became preachers again. Jesuit brothers became professors of theology again. Carmelite brothers took over parishes and parish ministries again

It’s not just women that are moving into these positions. To say so would be incorrect. There are more women than let’s say religious brothers. The reason is obvious. There are less religious brothers than there are women. The other issue is that most priests are not theologians, canon lawyers, scripture scholars, philosophers or trained administrators.

Today’s parish is much more complex than it was 50 years ago. Take this whole issue with the HHS mandate. Pastors call the Office for Respect Life asking how far they can go without falling into the pit, because they don’t know how the mandate works and they don’t know the finer points of moral theology. They studies all of the areas that I mentioned above, but they took one or two courses during the four years that it takes to get an M.Div. These other people, who are specialists, male or female, are most welcome by the pastors. The pastors don’t want to go on for further education. They’re happy doing what they do and they are good at it. But they often need the expert to handle certain things. Finances is always a big one and the other big area is Canon Law.

Don’t be so hard on these women and don’t think for one second that they are incompetent. Most are very competent. Also, not all of these posts are held by women, even though they are held by people who are not priests.

I guess my question is whether your objection is that these are not priests or that they are not males. Incompetent and competent people come in both genders.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Very good post.

I have no idea how a large parish is run since I attend a small parish. I am all for educated women running programs or departments. I don’t like to see women in the sanctuary, but since I attend the EF it is not an issue.

Personally, I believe if a woman is able to handle administrative tasks or run programs, she should be allowed to do so. Women have always provided support in various ways and that support does not always mean being part of the altar society or washing and ironing linen (even though that is a worthy task).
 
The Curt Jester;9148171:
My opinions are that women shouldn’t be in the sanctuary, and there should be no extraordinary ministers period.

(Replies in Blue are from Kathryn Ann):angel1:
I wonder how Our Lady, The Blessed Mother would feel about your statement above. :angel1:

However, what we like isn’t what we get. Around here I’ve witnessed:
  1. The older women running the parish.
    And gentlemen are always free to do the same.
  2. A woman as head of the diocesan Office of Divine Worship.
    I’m sure she is joyfully giving her service to God.
  3. A woman as chancellor of the diocese.
    She must be a very educated person. I’m sure she was invited to assist, and all under the sight of the good Bishop.
  4. About 95% of the EMHCs being women.
    They must be inspired by Our Lady to serve, much like the first evangelists, the ladies at the empty tomb who joyfully spread the Good News of Our Lord’s Resurrection.
  5. About 75% of the servers being girls.
    Again, Our Lady inspires, and boys are always equally welcome to serve.
Usually when the women come in, the men start going. That’s how I’ve seen it play out.
Or perhaps when no one else steps forward, individuals fill in where they are needed.

The Church has allowed the ladies to assist. Let us accept Her decisions joyfully.
“Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven. Whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.” A blessed Holy Week and Joyful Easter to all!

👍👍👍
 
Very good post.

I have no idea how a large parish is run since I attend a small parish. I am all for educated women running programs or departments. I don’t like to see women in the sanctuary, but since I attend the EF it is not an issue.

Personally, I believe if a woman is able to handle administrative tasks or run programs, she should be allowed to do so. Women have always provided support in various ways and that support does not always mean being part of the altar society or washing and ironing linen (even though that is a worthy task).
In some dioceses, parishes are registered corporations with their own DUNS number, 501(c)3 number and EIN number. This involves all of the same administrative work that you would find in any other non-profit, including things like benefits, payroll, taxes, social security, human resource development and oversight. They have their own accounts.

They have financial obligations like any other company, be it a mortgage, a loan for a new roof or the routine maintenance of building and property. Don’t think that your little parish is exempt. It’s just a smaller company. But it has to meet the same legal requirements as a bigger company.

Then there is the relationship with the diocese. The Church does not recognize American Civil Law on all matters. Property is one of those areas where civil law has no authority in the Church. Canon Law is very clear that whatever civil law says about ownership and the legal representative of a parish, the person whose name appears on those papers is only a figurehead. The bishop owns every parish and every diocesan institution. That’s why bishops can close and open institutions at will as long as he complies with Canon Law. The Vatican could care less about civil law. That’s going to vary from country to country. In large countries, it varies from one jurisdiction to another. The Vatican cannot be bothered trying to figure it all out. Once the bishop has complied with Canon Law, he just has to direct the legal representative to sign the papers. If the bishop fails to comply with Canon Law, that’s a horse of a different color. That has happened.

If the parish is run by a community, be it a congregation, an order or a society of apostolic life, that adds another level of legal relationship that the person in charge must know how to handle. If the parish does something wrong, the community has the canonical right to pull out without giving notice. I know of a community that pulled out in the middle of the night. When the folks arrived in the morning, the school and the church were locked. There was no mass and no school. There was no warning. The superior sent the bishop the letter on the same day that he pulled his people.

These are all layers. and layers of people and things that have to be done and processes that have to be followed. Most priests are not trained for this. Canon Lawyers are. Business administrators are. CPAs are. School principals are, but not your garden variety parish priest.

I believe that the only institutes that may not pull out of a parish are the Ecclesia Dei communities. They have no place to go. You can’t pull people out of a parish without a place to go. Unless they’re religious, they usually don’t have a mother house and I’m not sure if the superiors of the ED communities are given Ordinary authority as are superiors general of other religious communities and societies of apostolic life. Ordinary authority would give the superior the same power over his men that the bishop has over his own. If I’m not mistaken, institutes like the FSSP and Christ the King get their faculties not from their superior, but from the local Ordinary. That would make them accountable to the chancellor and the Vicar General of the diocese, even if the chancellor is a woman.

In other communities the major superior can grant faculties in his houses and his property, but not on diocesan property. There would be the glitch. Most of the ED communities were founded to serve in parishes. They have few houses that they own.

You may know more about this, since you’re more intimately connected to the FSSP. My contact with the FSSP has been limited to going to their training to learn how to celebrate the EF. Until this year, I have been the formation director. It was my job to teach the EF to the brothers who are priests. I never really talked with FSSP about their relationship with the different dioceses in which they serve.

All I know is that they, the bishops and the clergy, religious and laity around them seem happy. They’re very well liked. Who could not like the FSSP. They are so humble and so simple in many ways. I have never met a grumpy FSSP priest. They’re really cool guys. The blue has to go though. It’s a little loud. They need to go to basic brown, black, white or grey. 😃

Just kidding. As far as I’m concerned, they can wear hot pink and purple with orange dots. It’s not our business to dictate to religious and societies of apostolic life unless we’re the superior or a voting member. I’m not in the FSSP. So, what they do and what they wear is not for me to concern myself. That would be intrusion. Respect is key to fraternal relationships.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
There is at least one documented case in the Church of a woman having authority over men.

Look up Alienor de Bretagne. She lived between 1275 and 1342. She was abbess of Fontevraud.

Fontevraud was a unique monastery in that it was divided into two monasteries, one of men, one of women. It was led by an abbess, not an abbot, and the abbess had authority over both the men’s and women’s side.

Alienor left a stunning gradual of sacred music. It includes the Kyrie “Orbis Factor” which later became the famous Kyrie XI.

You can hear it here:

Orbis Factor
 
I’m not going to address all of this but 1) many do see it as authority or power not service, glad you are not like that and 2) you aren’t seeing what others are stating, that not reserving these things to priests or in some cases men and boys actually causes the problems of lack of interest.

I have seen EMHCs show offense when told they would not be needed (because a deacon was going to help, or here were not so many communicants). That’s stupid, and clearly you know better, but many don’t know better and we are failing them as a church if they don’t get that.
Unfortunately, some priests also view it as a right.

When I brought up the fact that we were using 2 and sometimes 3 EMHCs on Saturday evening, when we have at most 50 people at Mass and could easily do with 1 EMHC for the Precious Blood, my Pastor told me that they had been scheduled and they had a right to be there. That also applied even if a visiting priest or deacon was availble at the Sunday Mass when 3 are always scheduled although less than 25% of communicants receive from the Cup and the priest alone could easily distribute the Hosts to the entire congregation within a reasonable length of time, as was proven when H1N1 was on the go and we discontinued the use of EMHCs altogether for about a month.

He used the same type of reasoning to say that lay people who had been trained should lead the funeral rites even when a priest was celebrating a funeral Mass.
 
My opinions are that women shouldn’t be in the sanctuary, and there should be no extraordinary ministers period.

However, what we like isn’t what we get. …

Usually when the women come in, the men start going. That’s how I’ve seen it play out.
I agree.
 
How about Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth?

Does that constitute enough authority?
 
Unfortunately, some priests also view it as a right.

When I brought up the fact that we were using 2 and sometimes 3 EMHCs on Saturday evening, when we have at most 50 people at Mass and could easily do with 1 EMHC for the Precious Blood, my Pastor told me that they had been scheduled and they had a right to be there. That also applied even if a visiting priest or deacon was availble at the Sunday Mass when 3 are always scheduled although less than 25% of communicants receive from the Cup and the priest alone could easily distribute the Hosts to the entire congregation within a reasonable length of time, as was proven when H1N1 was on the go and we discontinued the use of EMHCs altogether for about a month.

He used the same type of reasoning to say that lay people who had been trained should lead the funeral rites even when a priest was celebrating a funeral Mass.
People look forward to serving! Many will attend mass as per the posted schedule, even when they prefer a different time slot. Lectors , servers , cantors, usually will accomodate the needs of the parish. E.M.H.C.'s , due to the number required at a particular service,
are not as easily moved about.
Once a schedule has been posted, change can become very difficult.
Perhaps the pastor is afraid that those that are told that they are not needed today will be absent tomorrow when needed.
Last month the associate came out to distribute Holy Communion and was waived away by the pastor. He was late in approaching the altar.
Perhaps the pastor thought that those scheduled had a “right” to be there or that the associate should be on time. Or a combination of both.
I give the pastor the benefit of the doubt. They usually are reluctent to change.
 
You could sack all the lay lectors, EMHCs and girl altar servers and it wouldn’t make much difference to the Mass. The priest might find it easier to say one, instead of marshalling all these extra people.

Sack the lot! One less distraction up there.

The same themes come up on this forum on this issue:

Girls come in, boys go out. (20 years later, diocese has a vocations crisis)
Women are bossy, men and boys don’t care for that.
Someone pipes up: the boys should be more mature / my son isn’t like that!

Thing is, ladies don’t realise: men don’t want to be around them all the time or listen to their nattering. It’s a mature decision, to exit, by the narthex. 😃
 
Girls come in, boys go out. (20 years later, diocese has a vocations crisis)
We are talking about, what, 5-13 year olds? Please. If the parents actually cared, they would either just make their kid be an altar server or get together with a couple of other families and volunteer their sons en masse. This is a non-starter in terms of arguments.
Women are bossy, men and boys don’t care for that.
Someone pipes up: the boys should be more mature / my son isn’t like that!
Thing is, ladies don’t realise: men don’t want to be around them all the time or listen to their nattering. It’s a mature decision, to exit, by the narthex. 😃
I will let this speak for itself.
 
Wow. Just wow! Okay, we get that some of you don’t care for women doing anything other than sitting in the pew. If that’s your feelings (and some have made it more than obvious it is), you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, but is it necessary to resort to derogatory and general insults against women to relay your feelings. Nattering? Seriously? If men/boys can’t handle being around or working beside women in the Church, they aren’t mature enough in life and/or their faith to be in that role in the first place!

Mr. Casey, please close this thread down before it turns into another “He-man woman-haters club”
 
Wow. Just wow! Okay, we get that some of you don’t care for women doing anything other than sitting in the pew and if that’s your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it… but is it necessary to resort to derogatory and general insults against women to relay your feelings. Nattering? Seriously? If men/boys can’t handle being around or working beside women in the Church, they aren’t mature enough in life and/or their faith to be in that role in the first place!

Mr. Casey, please close this thread down before it turns into another “He-man woman-haters club”
 
You could sack all the lay lectors, EMHCs and girl altar servers and it wouldn’t make much difference to the Mass. The priest might find it easier to say one, instead of marshalling all these extra people.

Sack the lot! One less distraction up there.

The same themes come up on this forum on this issue:

Girls come in, boys go out. (20 years later, diocese has a vocations crisis)
Women are bossy, men and boys don’t care for that.
Someone pipes up: the boys should be more mature / my son isn’t like that!

Thing is, ladies don’t realise: men don’t want to be around them all the time or listen to their nattering. It’s a mature decision, to exit, by the narthex. 😃
The problem with your solution is that the Church calls for lay readers. “Instituted Lectors” are lay men. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just train your different ministers properly.

There is no reason that EMHCs can’t be told in training exactly what ‘extraordinary’ means – having been one in different parishes and trained them for about 8 years I know that that is rarely to never explained. Some priests don’t even want it mentioned.

One priest, a former seminary prof, actually argued with me that the lay people were now ‘ordinary’ ministers of Holy Communion by the very fact that they were more numerous than priests. And in a Liturgy Committee meeting when I dared suggest that on Sundays when we had 3 priests in the sanctuary (for a while that happened about twice a month) there should be no EMHC at all for a congregation that numbered ~125, the three priests present vehemently disagreed with me. When I said that their position flew in the face of all the documents from Rome, this same priest got up, shook his finger in my face and yelled, “We have never listened to Rome on that stuff and we aren’t about to start now!” Women are not always the problem.
 
You could sack all the lay lectors, EMHCs and girl altar servers and it wouldn’t make much difference to the Mass. The priest might find it easier to say one, instead of marshalling all these extra people.

Sack the lot! One less distraction up there.

The same themes come up on this forum on this issue:

Girls come in, boys go out. (20 years later, diocese has a vocations crisis)
Women are bossy, men and boys don’t care for that.
Someone pipes up: the boys should be more mature / my son isn’t like that!

Thing is, ladies don’t realise: men don’t want to be around them all the time or listen to their nattering. It’s a mature decision, to exit, by the narthex. 😃
Wow. Just wow! Okay, we get that some of you don’t care for women doing anything other than sitting in the pew. If that’s your feeling (and some sound like it’s the hill they choose to die on), but it is not necessary to resort to derogatory and general insults against women to relay your feelings. Nattering? Seriously? If men/boys can’t handle being around or working beside women in the Church, they aren’t mature enough in life and/or their faith to be in that role in the first place!

Mr. Casey, please close this thread down before it turns into another “He-man woman-haters club”
 
Wow. Just wow! Okay, we get that some of you don’t care for women doing anything other than sitting in the pew.** If that’s your feeling (and some sound like it’s the hill they choose to die on), but it is not necessary to resort to derogatory and general insults against women to relay your feelings. Nattering**? Seriously? If men/boys can’t handle being around or working beside women in the Church, they aren’t mature enough in life and/or their faith to be in that role in the first place!

Mr. Casey, please close this thread down before it turns into another “He-man woman-haters club”

Agree.
 
The problem with your solution is that the Church calls for lay readers. “Instituted Lectors” are lay men. So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just train your different ministers properly.

There is no reason that EMHCs can’t be told in training exactly what ‘extraordinary’ means – having been one in different parishes and trained them for about 8 years I know that that is rarely to **never explained. Some priests don’t even want it mentioned. **

One priest, **a former seminary prof, **actually argued with me that the lay people were now ‘ordinary’ ministers of Holy Communion by the very fact that they were more numerous than priests. And in a Liturgy Committee meeting when I dared suggest that on Sundays when we had 3 priests in the sanctuary (for a while that happened about twice a month) there should be no EMHC at all for a congregation that numbered ~125, the three priests present vehemently disagreed with me. When I said that their position flew in the face of all the documents from Rome, this same priest got up, shook his finger in my face and yelled, “We have never listened to Rome on that stuff and we aren’t about to start now!” Women are not always the problem.
[My bolding] And thus the trick is done.

In the old rite, the priest reads the Epistle and Gospel. It seems easy enough.

We might think dancing in Church or women leading Communion Services are rareties now, but there’s no reason whatsoever they couldn’t become commonplace, at the current rate and ways the Novus Ordo is developing.

Is this in line with tradition? No way! But it does dovetail very nicely into modern notions of ‘equality’ and populism.

I think a great many Roman Catholics, having not being brought up with religious soleminty, just don’t ‘get it’.** All I can offer as an example is trying to imagine ladies in day clothes and perms reading from the sanctuary while a guitarist sets up his music …

… at an Orthodox rite.** 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top