Worker Wages: Wendy's vs. Wal-Mart vs. Costco

[qui_est_ce]

Wasn’t even the worse job I ever had-the worse was cleaning a drive-in theatre.

I used to have to pick out the weeds in the cracks outside my parents business in the summer before the days of Roundup. It was hot and dirty work. One day a carful of guys started whistling at me and promptly and loudly rear-ended a parked car with a mother and baby inside.

 

[SamH]

My sister actually worked on the bleed floor at the local IBP for a while.

Of my 7 brothers and sisters that went to college - 5 worked at IBP while attending. Everthing from security to skinning. I worked on the “break line” as a shank *****, clod puller and saw operator. I was offered a supervisor in training job when I graduated from college - paid nearly double what the staff accounting job paid that I actually accepted. It took me nearly 5 years to match what I would have made had I stayed.

 

[St_Francis]

I want to tell you a little parable. There once was man, who came from a broken home, he did not do well in school dreaming of an army career, and his rural school did not offer school did
not offer vocational training.

Which it sounds like he would not have been interested in anyway, as he was thinking of joining the Army.

Not to mention the fact that very few schools offer vo-tech anymore–they’re all about how many students go to college afterwards.

He joined the army and decided that the army was not for him.
since he got out early, he did not get his GI bill.( which he paid into.)

So he decided to renege on his commitment to stay in the Army?

So with his high school diploma he went to work at a fast food restaurant (the factory jobs were off the bus lines.)
While working this fast food job he noticed a few things; he was grateful for a job, but
the customers were rude,the customers expected a sit down restaurant experience for a fast food price,customers complained about the stupidest things,the pay was adequate
for a boarding house but inadequate for saving or living in better home,his bosses often take
advantage of the situation the man was in, and his managers had arbitrary control over him.

But was apparently not inspired to do anything to get out of the fast food industry.

Well the years went by and the man took other jobs but mostly in fast food (because the majority of his experience was in fast food.) He made manager but it’s difficult to work your way into management because companies would rather hire college graduates than crew people.(did I mention that that this man did not want to go to college wanting to read on his own.) H/e also worked two jobs and worked 60-70 hours a week. Also most fast food places only worry about the bottom line rather than their employees.

So he decided that rather than go to college where his work would be certified, he’d just learn on his own?

While this man had a drinking problem, he no longer drinks.

Ahh! finally this man has made a good decision!!!

But getting a full time job under obama care with just a high school diploma is problematical at best.
This man has been a life long conservative, but what bothers this man, is that some segments of conservatism act like people who work fast food are stupid,lazy, and not ambitious. The fact of the matter is that we are all individuals coming from different mind
sets,attitudes, and life experiences. This person has not begrudged people who have
more money or better life experiences, but has noticed that these very same people
look at the problems of fast food though their own lense and attitudes and assumptions
We as catholics should remember “DO NOT JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS SHOES.”.

Well, Christ told us not to judge the states of men’s souls, whether we’ve worn their shoes or not, so this isn’t really something Catholics should remember. We can, however, judge actions. Apparently this man made a number of poor decisions, and now that the nation has been forced into a bad economic situation, is suffering even more.

There may be something about this story which would clarify your point; might you have left part of it out?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Which it sounds like he would not have been interested in anyway, as he was thinking of joining the Army.

Not to mention the fact that very few schools offer vo-tech anymore–they’re all about how many students go to college afterwards.

So he decided to renege on his commitment to stay in the Army?

But was apparently not inspired to do anything to get out of the fast food industry.

So he decided that rather than go to college where his work would be certified, he’d just learn on his own?

Ahh! finally this man has made a good decision!!!

Well, Christ told us not to judge the states of men’s souls, whether we’ve worn their shoes or not, so this isn’t really something Catholics should remember. We can, however, judge actions. Apparently this man made a number of poor decisions, and now that the nation has been forced into a bad economic situation, is suffering even more.

There may be something about this story which would clarify your point; might you have left part of it out?

Wow, great response!

 

[Lochias]

Of my 7 brothers and sisters that went to college - 5 worked at IBP while attending. Everthing from security to skinning. I worked on the “break line” as a shank *****, clod puller and saw operator. I was offered a supervisor in training job when I graduated from college - paid nearly double what the staff accounting job paid that I actually accepted. It took me nearly 5 years to match what I would have made had I stayed.

Why did you take the accounting job?

 

[estesbob]

Why did you take the accounting job?

Probably for the same reason I did.Great profession, no blood and guts involved and future earnings potential much greater than working in a slaughterhouse

 

[SamH]

Why did you take the accounting job?

Because while it paid less in the short run - in the long run I was much better off. Last year I made more than 5X what I would have made had I went the supervisor route - I have a brother that has worked for IBP/Tyson for 28+ years and we compared salary. He thought I was a fool not taking the job they offered back then. I’m also a part owner in the business I am working at.

The ability to move up from the plant floor is very limited - even if I had when IBP was purchased by Tyson my job probably would have been considered redundent. Working in a specialized industry like that would have limited my ability to find a new job - much less a new job that paid as much.

 

[ishii]

I’d have to see what their positions are. Certainly a fast food worker is not going to make the same wage as a forklift driver, so this article isn’t exactly honest.

I’m betting the forklift driver’s pay at Cosco of $22.00/hour includes his benefits. You can’t compare Wal-Mart to Cosco because Cosco is members only. Probably a better comparison is Sam’s Club.

Regarding friendly employees, Sam’s Club has extremely friendly employees. They go out of their way to make the shopping experience easy. The clothes are constantly folded, and rarely do I find an item out of place. Sam’s Club also hires a lot of elderly people. Is that good or bad?

Good points, Christine (btw, its Costco, not cosco) . A few other observations about the article:

How many years experience do the three workers have? I doubt you can become a forklift driver at Costco unless you’ve been there a few years. A forklift driver in a membership warehouse seems like it would be a pretty demanding job - and I assume they earn every penny of their pay. How is the Wendy’s worker’s job comparable to the Costco guy? And the Sam’s club guy?

Regarding Wendy’s and the demand for a “living wage.” Since when is a job at Wendy’s meant to provide a living wage? Like Christine, I think they are comparing apples and oranges in this article.

Ishii

 

[gamewell45]

At my house we sometimes hire an older lady to do cleaning and other sorts of activity. We pay her about $10 an hour, which is clearly not enough to live on. But if we had to pay a living wage we probably just would do the work ourselves. How would that make this woman better off?

There are factors involved; your not obviously a corporation nor large business; the chances are this woman is paid off the books and as such there is no regulation covering this.

Corporations like Wendy’s, McDonalds, Walmart, Burger King, etc have much deeper pockets and a modest increase won’t have the same effect it would have on a mom and pop store. Just my 2 cents.

 

[gamewell45]

Then you take another job, why people are opposed to working extra jobs is beyond me. It’s the way I got through college.

In many cases, there is a lack of available jobs in the given market; the person may have childcare issues as well as well as other commitments that cannot not be broken for some reason. I believe that most people want to work if its within the window of possibility.

 

[ishii]

There are factors involved; your not obviously a corporation nor large business; the chances are this woman is paid off the books and as such there is no regulation covering this.

Corporations like Wendy’s, McDonalds, Walmart, Burger King, etc have much deeper pockets and a modest increase won’t have the same effect it would have on a mom and pop store. Just my 2 cents.

How much is a modest increase?

 

[MJJean]

Yes, and we know how well Europe is doing. And that is why we have so many Asians, Indians, etc. going to our universities.

High school education should be adequate. But it’s not. Why? We certainly spend a lot of money on our public school system.

I agree. And this is dishonesty on the part of our universities. All they care about is getting t he government money to keep running. They don’t care about their students. They make a big shoe of caring, though. My 58-year old sister is investing in another 60 hours of undergraduate school to become a teach in 3 years. She already has an undergraduate degree. This university, a Catholic one, has a special program for people like her. Good luck, sis.

How are you going to fix that? Is raising minimum wage going to fix that. I think not.

Nothing wrong with being an Indian. I’m one.

Europe’s financial crisis is not that simple. A lot of the reason they are having the same problems we are is that they heavily invested in our real estate market and they are competing with China, India, and Pakistan the same way we are.

High School education hasn’t been adequate for at the very least 20 years if you are talking about being able to find employment that pays a wage a family could live on. Now, since most of our high school education only jobs have gone overseas, higher education or voc-tech training post high school is even more important.

The “hot jobs” lists aren’t the product of universities. Usually, they’re published by the federal government labor dept. based on projections.

I don’t think a college or university has to care for their students. Not their job. Their job is to educate those students.

So, your sister wants to teach and is going back to do 60 hours when she already has a degree. Pretty common. Most teachers I know personally did not originally intend to teach. Either they were unable to find jobs in their fields or they were dissatisfied with work in their fields and wanted to “make a difference” or " do something more fulfilling". Reality is, there are required courses that need to be completed for teaching positions and those courses are not part of other degrees. So, the returning student takes those courses to get certified.

And I love the programs that give credit for time spent in the “real world” and help people either change fields or advance in their current field while being able to work. Those kinds of programs are the only way a lot of people will be able to advance in their careers and the only way people who suddenly find themselves under or unemployed will be able to get work.

No, raising minimum wage is not the only way to fix our problems. The whole shebang needs to be overhauled. But raising minimum wage a dollar or two will help those struggling now while we work on making the future brighter for those coming up behind them.

No, there is nothing wrong with being an Indian. Heck, I’ve seen the Chiefs job and I don’t want it! But there is something wrong when the Indians can’t make their utilities if they plan on actually eating that week.

(the Chief in this case is my husbands boss. Poor guy lives on Pepto and Tums, is an overweight desk jockey, has more stress than 6 people and will probably die of a stroke or heart attack while on the phone trying to straighten out shipping paperwork).

**It does not matter how much we educate everyone; someone is still going to need to get out in the sun and bring in the crops, someone is going to have the job of collecting the garbage and stocking the shelves and doing the dishes and seeing to it that the carpets are vacuumed and the toilets are cleaned, someone is going to have to mind the machines that make things–someone is going to have to do the manual labor! **

The manual labor that needs to be done is dignified work, and it deserves just compensation even when it requires more sweat and hustle than skill, particularly when it is work that must be done in order to keep civilization running. **It also deserves some respect, and not be called something like a s&%t job. **It should not be news to anybody that the whole world is going to turn into a starving stinking wasteland if the people who do those “s&%t” jobs ever stop doing them. And what if we make robots to do that work? That is just fine, but our brothers and sisters will still deserve a dignified place in the world, a way to earn their daily bread that gets them the respect they deserve.

I have nothing against manual labor jobs. My family have been manual laborers since forever. By “**** job” I mean a job that does not pay enough to survive on, not the work one actually does. If I go to a business and happily use a clean toilet in a clean bathroom, I’d like to think the guy or gal who cleaned that toilet is able to make ends meet.

No, education is not for everyone. But there are a lot of people out there who would do well if they had the ability to get an education. From people with a head for business and no way to get the training they need to be successful small or large business owners to the people who would love to work as electricians, mechanics, HVAC etc. and have no way to get the certifications they need to get hired.

Sure, we’re always going to have people with no interest in getting any kind of degree or certification. And those people will be the ones who bring in the crops or clean the toilets. But we have a lot of folks who do have that interest and we are letting all that potential go to waste.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Europe’s financial crisis is not that simple. A lot of the reason they are having the same problems we are is that they heavily invested in our real estate market and they are competing with China, India, and Pakistan the same way we are.

Europe’s problems stem from their strict employment laws and overly generous benefit and retirement plans.

High School education hasn’t been adequate for at the very least 20 years if you are talking about being able to find employment that pays a wage a family could live on. Now, since most of our high school education only jobs have gone overseas, higher education or voc-tech training post high school is even more important.
The “hot jobs” lists aren’t the product of universities. Usually, they’re published by the federal government labor dept. based on projections.

I don’t think a college or university has to care for their students. Not their job. Their job is to educate those students.

The career counselors are paid to steer students to “hot” jobs.

So, your sister wants to teach and is going back to do 60 hours when she already has a degree. Pretty common. Most teachers I know personally did not originally intend to teach. Either they were unable to find jobs in their fields or they were dissatisfied with work in their fields and wanted to “make a difference” or " do something more fulfilling". Reality is, there are required courses that need to be completed for teaching positions and those courses are not part of other degrees. So, the returning student takes those courses to get certified.

The only reason I brought up my sister is that she won’t get a job teaching at her age. There are too many young kids out of school vying for that position. She might get a job at an inner city school, but being a white middle class female, I doubt she will be able to handle that job. She hasn’t had a job for over 25 years. The school is blatantly making money off her.

And I love the programs that give credit for time spent in the “real world” and help people either change fields or advance in their current field while being able to work. Those kinds of programs are the only way a lot of people will be able to advance in their careers and the only way people who suddenly find themselves under or unemployed will be able to get work.

Agree. There is a local university that has a program “Teaching as a Second Career.” My sister is not going through that program, though. In high school, my son had a lot of teachers who came to teaching from other careers. They were the best and the most dedicated.

No, raising minimum wage is not the only way to fix our problems. The whole shebang needs to be overhauled. But raising minimum wage a dollar or two will help those struggling now while we work on making the future brighter for those coming up behind them.

I’m sorry, but while I think you mean well when you say this, it real life, it just doesn’t work that way, for the many reasons outlined earlier.

No, there is nothing wrong with being an Indian. Heck, I’ve seen the Chiefs job and I don’t want it! But there is something wrong when the Indians can’t make their utilities if they plan on actually eating that week.

(the Chief in this case is my husbands boss. Poor guy lives on Pepto and Tums, is an overweight desk jockey, has more stress than 6 people and will probably die of a stroke or heart attack while on the phone trying to straighten out shipping paperwork).

I have nothing against manual labor jobs. My family have been manual laborers since forever. By “**** job” I mean a job that does not pay enough to survive on, not the work one actually does. If I go to a business and happily use a clean toilet in a clean bathroom, I’d like to think the guy or gal who cleaned that toilet is able to make ends meet.

I think there is something to be said for the idea that a job that does not pay a “meaningful” salary is not a job worth creating. But I really think that the market will always prevail, unless you live on an isolated island like Cuba.

No, education is not for everyone. But there are a lot of people out there who would do well if they had the ability to get an education. From people with a head for business and no way to get the training they need to be successful small or large business owners to the people who would love to work as electricians, mechanics, HVAC etc. and have no way to get the certifications they need to get hired.

In St. Louis we have two VOCTECH high schools. I think these kinds of schools should be encouraged.

Sure, we’re always going to have people with no interest in getting any kind of degree or certification. And those people will be the ones who bring in the crops or clean the toilets. But we have a lot of folks who do have that interest and we are letting all that potential go to waste.

Truly, where there is a will, there is a way. I don’t think Lochias will remain at minimum wage at McDonald’s for much longer.

 

[Lochias]

Truly, where there is a will, there is a way. I don’t think Lochias will remain at minimum wage at McDonald’s for much longer.

I work as Reserves Supervisor at a local college library. I haven’t worked at McD’s in several years.

There are some okay personal benefits here, but it’s still not enough to make ends meet when taking care of two family members who lack the ability to work.

 

[qui_est_ce]

In many cases, there is a lack of available jobs in the given market; the person may have childcare issues as well as well as other commitments that cannot not be broken for some reason. I believe that most people want to work if its within the window of possibility.

I’d like to think that too. But sadly I have seen many people who work harder at trying not to work than if they just shut up and did their job.

There are windows of possibility in this country. The poorest person here would be rich by most of the world’s standards. Everyone has plumbing and running water. There is adequate food for even the homeless. How do I know this? I look at our St. Vincent de Paul pantry. It’s full. So are the backpacks for needy kids going back to school.

 

[JonNC]

So what is the litmus test to determine pay scales?

Market forces. The productivity of the worker. The availability of individuals who can perform the task. The level of education and skills necessary to perform the task.
Employment is essentially a contractual agreement: the worker receives compensation, mutually upon, in exchange for successful performance of a specific task or tasks over a designated period of time.

Jon

 

[estesbob]

There are factors involved; your not obviously a corporation nor large business; the chances are this woman is paid off the books and as such there is no regulation covering this.

Corporations like Wendy’s, McDonalds, Walmart, Burger King, etc have much deeper pockets and a modest increase won’t have the same effect it would have on a mom and pop store. Just my 2 cents.

Actually there is regulation covering it. If they pay her over $600 a year they are required to issue her a 1099 .

 

[stinkcat_14]

Actually there is regulation covering it. If they pay her over $600 a year they are required to issue her a 1099 .

I think what was originally being argued was not regulation but morality, that it was somehow immoral to pay someone less than a living wage. If that indeed is immoral (which I am not conceding) then should it matter whether the business is large or small, or has deep or shallow pockets? And of course, how does one define deep pockets is another question.

 

[estesbob]

I think what was originally being argued was not regulation but morality, that it was somehow immoral to pay someone less than a living wage. If that indeed is immoral (which I am not conceding) then should it matter whether the business is large or small, or has deep or shallow pockets? And of course, how does one define deep pockets is another question.

And of course there is no definition of a living wage.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I think what was originally being argued was not regulation but morality, that it was somehow immoral to pay someone less than a living wage. If that indeed is immoral (which I am not conceding) then should it matter whether the business is large or small, or has deep or shallow pockets? And of course, how does one define deep pockets is another question.

That is just to logical!

And of course there is no definition of a living wage.

This has been my point all along. Do we pay people according to how many family members they support even if they do the same job. This justification has been used to pay women less, because their husbands were the primary wage earners.