Worker Wages: Wendy's vs. Wal-Mart vs. Costco

[Trader]

I think most would agree the opposite would be true.

ATB

That could be because a business will only pay you if you work and government will pay you if you don’t work. That is tough competition for a lot of businesses.

In the spring of this year CNBC did a report on a Chicago company trying to hire entry level manufacturing workers at $12.50 per hour, or about $500 per week. The competition was $300 per week on unemployment compensation, with no commuting or work clothes to buy, plenty of time to play X-Box, and staying on Medicaid.

 

[Morwenna]

Australia: $16.91 USD
France: $12.68 USD
Germany: set by collective bargaining
UK: $9.83 USD

Where did you obtain this list, Mickey? I ask because I just checked the minimum wage for Australia, and found it is A$16.37, which is equivalent to US$15.07.

If you’re talking purchasing power rather than a straight currency conversion, the figure for AUD would be far lower than USD. I can tell you from personal experience that almost everything is way, WAY more expensive there … horrifyingly so, to American eyes. I felt dizzy looking at prices in the grocery store, and picking up fast food or going to a restaurant is enough to give you a heart attack.

In other words, you have to look at more than just the raw numbers for wages … you must also consider what a dollar can buy in either place.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Where did you obtain this list, Mickey? I ask because I just checked the minimum wage for Australia, and found it is A$16.37, which is equivalent to US$15.07.

If you’re talking purchasing power rather than a straight currency conversion, the figure for AUD would be far lower than USD. I can tell you from personal experience that almost everything is way, WAY more expensive there … horrifyingly so, to American eyes. I felt dizzy looking at prices in the grocery store, and picking up fast food or going to a restaurant is enough to give you a heart attack.

In other words, you have to look at more than just the raw numbers for wages … you must also consider what a dollar can buy in either place.

I think that number came from CNN money. Wikipedia (I know) had a similar number. I believe the AUD was a little lower than the USD. Of course conversion rates change daily. But the point is easily made with figures such as this.

To refresh your memory This was to show what minimum wage was for countries with universal healthcare.

ATB

 

[Morwenna]

I think that number came from CNN money. Wikipedia (I know) had a similar number. I believe the AUD was a little lower than the USD. Of course conversion rates change daily. But the point is easily made with figures such as this.

A partial point, certainly. The “whole truth” … not so much.

To refresh your memory

Nice, Mickey. Really nice.

This was to show what minimum wage was for countries with universal healthcare.

ATB

Yes, thanks … I gathered that. However, my response was meant to illustrate that just throwing out raw numbers without providing context is doing a disservice to your readers. If someone unfamiliar with Australian costs and prices were to read your post, they would probably conclude (wrongly) that the Aus minimum wage is “much higher” than the US minimum wage, which is only true if you look at just the raw numbers and ignore the reality of purchasing power.

 

[mum4boys]

If you check out the data for France, the employment rate for people under 25 is around 25% or so. Not terribly surprising.

countryeconomy.com/unemployment/france

I wonder about US employment rate versus other countries. According to the US Labor department if you have a job, any job whether it is 5 hours a week or 40 hours a week you are employed. If you used your benefits up and still not working, you now in that class of not in the labor class. So so other countries use the same criteria? Our rates are much higher when you figure in seasonal work or part time work for people looking for full time.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Actually this is not true. Whether you are in the labor force has nothing to do with whether or not you are receiving benefits.

 

[SamH]

In the spring of this year CNBC did a report on a Chicago company trying to hire entry level manufacturing workers at $12.50 per hour, or about $500 per week. The competition was $300 per week on unemployment compensation, with no commuting or work clothes to buy, plenty of time to play X-Box, and staying on Medicaid.

That’s it exactly. $12.50 an hour to work or $7.50 an hour to do nothing. I know what a lot of people are choosing.

 

[Orogeny]

What does this have to do with the question of fair wages?

ATB

What is unfair about a wage you agree to before you start a job?

Matthew 20:1-16

Peace

Tim

 

[stinkcat_14]

What is unfair about a wage you agree to before you start a job?

Matthew 20:1-16

Peace

Tim

It is not necessarily unjust. On the other hand, the market wage in not necessarily just either. For example, if an employer has monopsony power and pushes down wages then that would be unjust. Also, if wages are pushed up because of occupational licensing requirements then that would be unjust as well.

 

[Orogeny]

It is not necessarily unjust. On the other hand, the market wage in not necessarily just either. For example, if an employer has monopsony power and pushes down wages then that would be unjust. Also, if wages are pushed up because of occupational licensing requirements then that would be unjust as well.

How can it be unjust unless one HAS to work for that employer? In the U.S., no one if forced to work for any specific company. We have the right to accept a wage or decline that wage and look elsewhere. If there are no jobs that pay a wage that you are willing to accept, either change your skills so that other opportunities are available or move to an area that has jobs that you are willing to do for the wages offered.

The moment you accept a wage in exchange for your services, that wage is a fair wage.

Peace

Tim

 

[qui_est_ce]

Indeed it is. My tax dollars have to subsidize that cheap labor because $7.25 or $2.13 (waiter’s wage) isn’t enough for most to live on independently of a social welfare program. Businesses are pretty charitable with other people’s money.

Not true. Waiters get tips. My daughter worked her way through college being a server. My son is living independently and is a server. He has owned his own home since he was 24 on server wages and tips.

When my kids were in high school, they worked for less than minimum wage (after union dues) as baggers at the local grocery store. This grocery store also employed Down’s Syndrome employees as baggers. This kind of job is not intended for independent living.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Personally I think most tax credits and tax deductions are arbitrary and unfair as well. After all, why should someone who doesn’t have kids pay more than someone who doesn’t? Or why should someone who has a mortgage pay less in tax than someone who doesn’t? It is all pretty arbitrary.

Why should someone who can afford a house get a tax break???

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t think either entity can be trusted. However, it is much easier to keep a businessman honest, as long as that businessman is not in bed with the government. After all if an employer treats me badly or underpays me I will find a new job. Nothing like turnover costs to make a businessman rethink his practices.

And turnover costs can be significant.

 

[qui_est_ce]

One reason would be to encourage behavior that contributes and strengthens society - such as marriage and raising kids. I agree with you about the mortgage interest deduction. However, I would only support getting rid of these deductions if the overall tax rate was reduced significantly.

Ishii

That means the government determines which behaviors contribute and strengthen society.

NOPE :nope:

Flat tax

 

[qui_est_ce]

If you check out the data for France, the employment rate for people under 25 is around 25% or so. Not terribly surprising.

countryeconomy.com/unemployment/france

Have you any idea how much it costs to live in those countries??? Gasoline, groceries, and utilities are more than twice what the are in the US.
To say nothing of housing and taxes.

 

[estesbob]

Why should someone who can afford a house get a tax break???

Because the housing industry provides millions of jobs and is a driving force in the economy. One has to look at the unintended consequences of eliminating deduction or fiddling with the tax rates-ie the total collapse of the real estate market when capital Gains tax was eliminated which lead to the Savings and Loan debacle

 

[estesbob]

That means the government determines which behaviors contribute and strengthen society.

NOPE :nope:

Flat tax

Flat tax on what?

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t think it is arbitrary or unfair. The base pay is decided using objective criteria.

What constitutes “living.” Who determines it? Does it include 7 beets, 7 potatoes, one loaf of rye, and one ration of vodka per person? How many square feet of living space?

You haven’t defined your objective data yet.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Because the housing industry provides millions of jobs and is a driving force in the economy. One has to look at the unintended consequences of eliminating deduction or fiddling with the tax rates-ie the total collapse of the real estate market when capital Gains tax was eliminated which lead to the Savings and Loan debacle

You’d have to phase it in.

I think too many people own homes who shouldn’t. Home ownership is not for the faint-hearted and hurt people in trouble a few years ago when banks were lending to subprimers.

 

[Morwenna]

Have you any idea how much it costs to live in those countries??? Gasoline, groceries, and utilities are more than twice what the are in the US.
To say nothing of housing and taxes.

Thank you, Christine! This is the point I was attempting to make, as well.