World's climate warming faster than feared, scientists say

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Assuming the sincerity of concern on the part of those here supporting the “Green Agenda”, I will offer some parting words and move on. No matter how “dirty” one might think oil, coal and so on are, the current population of the earth depends on affordable energy. I believe that every human life glorifies the Creator and oppose those who seek to reduce the population of the planet. There are some secular progressives who actually seek to reduce the population and many use a “Green Agenda” for that purpose. So beware wolves in sheep’s clothing.
 
lynnvinc said:
Don’t forget I have to pay for people to pollute the earth and harm and kill people on April 15th, by way of the huge tax-breaks and subsidies for fossil fuels, not to mention military protection, etc. And the people buying dirty and harmful electricity, gas, and gasoline aren’t paying for the harms (on into the future) they are causing – others are paying with their money and ill health.
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There are not massive tax breaks and subsidies for oil companies I wish there were- I have several clients who could use some
 
lynnvinc said:
Don’t forget I have to pay for people to pollute the earth and harm and kill people on April 15th, by way of the huge tax-breaks and subsidies for fossil fuels, not to mention military protection, etc. And the people buying dirty and harmful electricity, gas, and gasoline aren’t paying for the harms (on into the future) they are causing – others are paying with their money and ill health.
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So that justifies you not having to pay a tax for using the roads that other people who use the roads have to pay?

You talk about tax-breaks and subsidies. What about all the tax-breaks and subsidies given to alternative energy and “green” businesses, including the subsidies given to people purchasing electric vehicles? It’s kinda hypocritical for people who receive subsidies to criticize subsidies.

I have have to pay income taxes too so I really don’t see your point. I don’t agree with all the things the government spends my taxes on either, including the subsidies given to people for purchasing electric vehicles.

The difference is that you are using a public good without paying for it, you are a freerider. The fact that you pay income taxes really has nothing to do with you using the roads without paying for them like everyone else does. You are benefiting from a public good without incurring a cost. You are living at the expense of others.
 
lynnvinc said:
Don’t forget I have to pay for people to pollute the earth and harm and kill people on April 15th, by way of the huge tax-breaks and subsidies for fossil fuels, not to mention military protection, etc. And the people buying dirty and harmful electricity, gas, and gasoline aren’t paying for the harms (on into the future) they are causing – others are paying with their money and ill health.
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That’s true that fossil fuels and the industrial revolution, including industrial agriculture, has led to a great boom in population and great advances. They say that penicillin, better diet, and hygienics have led to healthier and longer lives.

The pollution was a downside of something basically good, and people in past generations didn’t quite understand how bad the downside was.

Now we are at a cross-roads – continue down the business-as-usual highly polluting path, which is putting us on the brink of annihilation of a large portion of humanity (not next year or decade, but within the next few hundreds of years), OR forge ahead on a “soft path” of a less and less carbon-intensive, less polluting and harming society. The technology is there to do that (with new tech on the horizon), only the will and good will is needed.
 
lynnvinc said:
The technology is there to do that (with new tech on the horizon), only the will and good will is needed.
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A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I do not much care what they claim is on the horizon.
Until it is a reality, it is fiction.

Or perhaps someone could explain where the ‘Jetson’s style’ flying cars we were all promised went.
 
vz71 said:
Or perhaps someone could explain where the ‘Jetson’s style’ flying cars we were all promised went.
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Well, according to “Back to the Future Part II”, there are hover cars in 2015, so we are only a few months away. 😉
 
That may be, but as soon as we hit 2016, we will be told, “if you like your hover car, you can keep it.”
 
vz71 said:
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I do not much care what they claim is on the horizon.
Until it is a reality, it is fiction.

Or perhaps someone could explain where the ‘Jetson’s style’ flying cars we were all promised went.
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There is plenty of off-the-shelf tech and measures today to reduce the U.S.'s GHG emissions and concomitant pollution thru efficiency & conservation by at least 50% (some say 75%) cost-effectively, without reducing productivity and living standards.

Add into that a combination of alt energy sources, and we’ll really make a dip in out GHGs emissions, while promoting health from reduction in concomitant local pollution AND promoting our wealth.

See and rmi.org
Books:
All we need for this better and brighter future is the will. That’s the ONLY thing that is lacking. The tech and know-how are there in abundance.

Logistically this will take at least a couple of decades to implement even IF we are really very serious and gung-ho about it.

I say, let’s give it the ole heave-ho try!
 
“…converting the United States to almost total reliance on renewable energy sources, such as solar energy and wind power…”

Great. All we need is sunlight, wind, and/or running water (for hydroelectric). How much sunlight is there – especially in the northern states – during the winter months? How much wind is there in the desert southwest (or any other place far from the coast and sheltered by mouintains?

Solar Power Is Booming, But Will Never Replace Coal. Here’s Why.
 
Erich said:
“…converting the United States to almost total reliance on renewable energy sources, such as solar energy and wind power…”

Great. All we need is sunlight, wind, and/or running water (for hydroelectric). How much sunlight is there – especially in the northern states – during the winter months? How much wind is there in the desert southwest (or any other place far from the coast and sheltered by mouintains?

Solar Power Is Booming, But Will Never Replace Coal. Here’s Why.
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I think nuclear is the way to go, but I acknowledge I’m not an expert.
 
lynnvinc said:
There is plenty of off-the-shelf tech and measures today to reduce the U.S.'s GHG emissions and concomitant pollution thru efficiency & conservation by at least 50% (some say 75%) cost-effectively, without reducing productivity and living standards.

Add into that a combination of alt energy sources, and we’ll really make a dip in out GHGs emissions, while promoting health from reduction in concomitant local pollution AND promoting our wealth.

See and rmi.org
Books:
All we need for this better and brighter future is the will. That’s the ONLY thing that is lacking. The tech and know-how are there in abundance.

Logistically this will take at least a couple of decades to implement even IF we are really very serious and gung-ho about it.

I say, let’s give it the ole heave-ho try!
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Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried to integrate an “off the shelf” technology into a current system? It’s never easy and it’s never cheap, and it always creates unforeseen problems. Anybody who tells you otherwise is trying to scam you.
 
lynnvinc said:
"All we need for this better and brighter future is the will. That’s the ONLY thing that is lacking. The tech and know-how are there in abundance.
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Where is this passion when discussing nuclear energy?
That is the only carbon neutral source of energy that actually fulfills the promise of clean abundant energy.
 
ucfengr said:
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried to integrate an “off the shelf” technology into a current system? It’s never easy and it’s never cheap, and it always creates unforeseen problems. Anybody who tells you otherwise is trying to scam you.
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We are actually doing it.

First we reduced our GHG by over one-third cost effectively saving us $1000s over the past 25 years…with the understanding that every product involves GHGs and concomitant pollution. A lot of reductions thru Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, and buy Recycled, planting plants and trees (which also increases property value). We had already been living close to work and shops over the past 45 years of our marriage, so we are not counting that in our reductions since 1990.

Then when we moved to Texas in 2002 we went on Green Mountain 100% wind-power electricity.

We also continued to implement more energy/resource efficiency/conservation measures, and started buying Ology treeless paper products at Walgreen, etc.

In 2012 we bought a Chevy Volt (bec our very old car had conked out), and drive it about 80% (4800 of our 6000 miles per year) on our 100% wind-generated electricity.

Then in Jan 2013 we redid our roof (it had been leaking for years and was well overdue for replacement) with more expensive high efficiency shingles over special insulating foil-covered plywood. The savings in energy and the improvement to property value & resalabiltiy (the shingles are much more beautiful than the cheaper kind) should compensate for their higher price.

Then in August 2013 we installed solar panels, providing 43% of our electricity, which integrates very well with our Green Mountain grid-supplied energy.

No problems at all so far.

In fact they say solar and wind are complementary, since when it is less sunny it is often more windy and vice versa. Considering that Germany is doing okay with solar and wind – despite being perhaps one of the worst areas for solar and wind – there is a lot we can learn from them. They have just developed much better, utility-company size storage for such energy.

People here make much fuss about EV batteries, but I was just reading about some Volt-owner who figured in 8 years when and if he needed a new battery (even tho they told me the battery should last the lifetime of the car) he’d be able to sell his old battery for energy storage purposes and get something out of it. That is the ole “reuse” spirit.

The important point is to 1st REDUCE (by becoming more energy/resource efficient/conservative). Once that is accomplished alt energy and other measures become a whole lot easier and principles like “tunneling through” might even apply (to where one doesn’t even need the motor to pump the water or AC to cool the place) – see natcap.org/images/other/NCchapter6.pdf

It used to be that Americans were innovative; surely we can get that old spirit and can-do attitude back.
 
vz71 said:
Where is this passion when discussing nuclear energy?
That is the only carbon neutral source of energy that actually fulfills the promise of clean abundant energy.
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I’m not against nuke, per se. It is a very expensive source of energy – even tho they said it would be too cheap to meter. There are also problems re uranium mining harming and killing people – esp tribal peoples – in America and around the world (in Niger, for instance) and the waste storage problem, etc. Some risks of accidents or getting into the wrong hands.

Plus it is not carbon-free. There are the GHG emissions in the mining, processing, building the plants, waste storage, etc. And they require “peaking plants” (usually coal), bec the nuke energy production has to remain fairly constant (and they’d be generating too much electricity at night if they ran it high enough to meet daytime demand) – so it is usually 75% nuke and 25% coal. At least that’s what it was in the Chicagoland area with ComEd when we lived up there.

Now one could have some other energy storage mechanism – such as pumped-storage hydro-electricity reservoirs (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity ), in which water is pumped up during the night and released as hydro-power during the day. We invited the ComEd guy to our parish environmental committee and discussed these things. When I brought up EVs he got all excited and said if enough people in the ComEd area were plugging in EVs at night, they would be able to cut their electricity price in half.

So nuke is an option, with these caveats. We should go for energy efficiency/conservation and alt energy first, but I think nuke will have to be part of the mix.
 
lynnvinc said:
It used to be that Americans were innovative; surely we can get that old spirit and can-do attitude back.
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Do you really find it unbelievable that people who are struggling to pay their bills, struggling to provide for their families, have massive debt, who don’t know how they are going to put food on the table much less put their kids through college, don’t really care about global warming or alternative energy?

It’s kinda hard for people to care about something that might happen years down the road when they are worried about their own survival right now.

And liberal economic policies are just going to make it worse. Raising the cost of energy, which raises the cost of all other goods, is just going to make things worse for people who are already struggling.
 
lynnvinc said:
All we need for this better and brighter future is the will. That’s the ONLY thing that is lacking. The tech and know-how are there in abundance.
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No, the only thing that is lacking is that people just don’t care. And can you blame them? People are struggling with massive debt and all the while costs are increasing every year more than wages are increasing. When people aren’t worried about paying their bills, providing for their families, and aren’t being crushed by overwhelming debt, then maybe they will have the will for this “better and brighter future”. Until then, you are just spinning your wheels.
 
freeRadical said:
No, the only thing that is lacking is that people just don’t care. And can you blame them? People are struggling with massive debt and all the while costs are increasing every year more than wages are increasing. When people aren’t worried about paying their bills, providing for their families, and aren’t being crushed by overwhelming debt, then maybe they will have the will for this “better and brighter future”. Until then, you are just spinning your wheels.
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It sort of interesting that we had a power outage Wed for the whole area. The news report came out last night (the outage killed the news on Wed) that it was due to lack of energy to meet our fast growing needs and that there would be more and more current cuts over the next few years until they could build more power lines to bring it in from Laredo, etc. Sort of reminds me of India where you get current cuts ALL the time; used to be nearly every day.

We just went on 43% solar power last year, and it is quite cost-effective, esp with several tax-breaks and subsidies. A person with at least somewhat south-sloping roofs would be crazy not to go for it.

The initial cost was $24,500; the $8,500 fed gov tax-break and a $7,500 payback from the grid-supplying company AEP brought the net cost down to about $8,500. I suppose for people who are strapped financially, they could get a low-interest loan for this. We are now saving over $1000 in electricity each year. For people going into retirement, that is a great boon.

If people here were to 1st become more energy efficient/conservative and 2nd go solar when feasible, we wouldn’t need those extra and expensive power lines from outside that will sky-rocket our electric rates.

I think I’m going to start something here to help people to do the needful…that would also save them $$.
 
lynnvinc said:
It sort of interesting that we had a power outage Wed for the whole area. The news report came out last night (the outage killed the news on Wed) that it was due to lack of energy to meet our fast growing needs and that there would be more and more current cuts over the next few years until they could build more power lines to bring it in from Laredo, etc. Sort of reminds me of India where you get current cuts ALL the time; used to be nearly every day.

We just went on 43% solar power last year, and it is quite cost-effective, esp with several tax-breaks and subsidies. A person with at least somewhat south-sloping roofs would be crazy not to go for it.

The initial cost was $24,500; the $8,500 fed gov tax-break and a $7,500 payback from the grid-supplying company AEP brought the net cost down to about $8,500. I suppose for people who are strapped financially, they could get a low-interest loan for this. We are now saving over $1000 in electricity each year. For people going into retirement, that is a great boon.

If people here were to 1st become more energy efficient/conservative and 2nd go solar when feasible, we wouldn’t need those extra and expensive power lines from outside that will sky-rocket our electric rates.

I think I’m going to start something here to help people to do the needful…that would also save them $$.
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You haven’t actually saved any money, you just dumped most of your costs on taxpayers. That might work for you, but if the strategy falls apart if everybody tries to do it.
 
ucfengr said:
You haven’t actually saved any money, you just dumped most of your costs on taxpayers. That might work for you, but if the strategy falls apart if everybody tries to do it.
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Same with the vaunted Chevy Volt. In a previous thread, a poster demonstrated that it takes about $250,000 to build a $25,000 Chevy Volt. The buyer pays the $25,000 and the taxpayer pays the rest.

A person could heat his house with the heat generated by ten thousand beehives if the government paid him enough of other peoples’ money to do it.
 
lynnvinc said:
It sort of interesting that we had a power outage Wed for the whole area. The news report came out last night (the outage killed the news on Wed) that it was due to lack of energy to meet our fast growing needs and that there would be more and more current cuts over the next few years until they could build more power lines to bring it in from Laredo, etc. Sort of reminds me of India where you get current cuts ALL the time; used to be nearly every day.

We just went on 43% solar power last year, and it is quite cost-effective, esp with several tax-breaks and subsidies. A person with at least somewhat south-sloping roofs would be crazy not to go for it.

The initial cost was $24,500; the $8,500 fed gov tax-break and a $7,500 payback from the grid-supplying company AEP brought the net cost down to about $8,500. I suppose for people who are strapped financially, they could get a low-interest loan for this. We are now saving over $1000 in electricity each year. For people going into retirement, that is a great boon.

If people here were to 1st become more energy efficient/conservative and 2nd go solar when feasible, we wouldn’t need those extra and expensive power lines from outside that will sky-rocket our electric rates.

I think I’m going to start something here to help people to do the needful…that would also save them $$.
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Talking about your power being cut due to insufficient current while trying to persuade people that solar and wind power are the way to go is not an effective strategy for convincing anyone.
 
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