Would it be better for me to get sterilized, or my husband?

[KostyaJMJ]

No, relying on NFP for the past ten years has been hell. I thought that was quite clear.

I use both STM and Creighton. I was observing my mucus the Creighton way, every time I went to the bathroom. It was completely dry every single day. Plus, I was taking Prometrium to induce a period, which should have kept me from ovulating until after I had my period. I still ovulated and got pregnant.

You may have to accept that it isn’t possible to use STM or Creighton with your medical condition. You do have anecdotal evidence of women with PCOS using both methods with success, but remember one of the main causes of infertility is PCOS. Many women only believe they are successfully using NFP to avoid. You’ve left the conditions under which the method is tested, so you’re basically in uncharted territory. How effective the method will be isn’t predictable.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

No, we did not have sex before marriage, not that it’s any of your business. We didn’t even do anything beyond kissing before marriage (through four and half years of dating). We went through marriage preparation, took an NFP class, and married in the Catholic Church. My husband was a devout Catholic when I married him. He didn’t lose his faith until after we had been married for several years and had children. Please tell me what I could have done differently. I did everything right.

I was not meaning that as a condemnation of you. I am sorry if it came across that way. I thought perhaps your husband was not a Catholic and you say he has lost his faith, which puts a lot of pressure on you to cave in to the ways of the world and stop getting pregnant. I wish I had some good advice for you. But please do not endanger your immortal soul by getting sterilized. Your husband should understand this. Would he attend marital counseling?

 

[sdeco]

No, he is not willing to go to counseling. We can’t afford it right now anyway.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

sdeco:

Please tell me what I could have done differently. I did everything right.

You are not responsible for your husband losing faith. That’s his affair, and all you can do is lead by example and pray for him. As husband, he should be leading the family in faith, but if he is not, God will give you his grace to do so. Please pray, as we all pray for you!

 

[The_Bucket]

No, he is not willing to go to counseling. We can’t afford it right now anyway.

Well then I’m sorry to say that your problems go way beyond NFP not working and your sex life. Getting sterilized and trying to figure out “loopholes” with God to make up for that grave sin is not any way to improve your marriage.

 

[sdeco]

Then what the HELL am I supposed to do?? I’ve had it.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

ThyKingdomCome;10567101:

The way I see it, your moral options are:
—accept that you may continue to have unexpected pregnancies…
—continue to research additional ways to recognize what is happening in your body and attempt a new or combined method of NFP…
—make the huge sacrifice of abstaining…

I can’t do any of those.

I think you mean, “I WON’T do any of those.”

I have to have c-sections for medical reasons. This will be my third c-section. I can’t just keep having c-sections; that’s very dangerous. I also had a very dangerous complication (severe preeclampsia) with my second child.

I will not attempt to give you medical advice. But there are many, many people who successfully have more C-sections than you do, all with the happy consent of their doctors. I have no idea if you are one of those people, because of course there ARE complicatios that can make repeated C-sections unsafe. But you didn’t have pre-eclampsia with your third child. I know if it were me, it wouldn’t matter if my risk were higher or not, I would simply be afraid of having another bad experience. But it is not unheard of for someone to have an unhealthy pregnancy and then be able to have healthy pregnancies afterwards. These are things that may very well be limiting you, but a person who would like more children will often get a 2nd opinion from a doctor known to be not afraid of large families before determining that they are true limitations. Maybe you’ve already done this. It’s not your business to give us your whole story.

We also have serious emotional and financial reasons to stop having kids. We are definitely not called to have a big family.

What do you make of the fact that you got pregnant in a circumstances that the professionals all thought was impossible then? Think about this - doctors admit to failure rates of vasectomies and tubal ligations. They can even tell you stories about it. But your specialist had NEVER heard of a person getting pregnant the way you did? People get pregnant on the pill all the time, NFP has a similar failure rate to that of the pill. But getting pregnant in your situation was “impossible” in your own words. Unscientifically, this sounds like a failure rate lower than that of the sterilizations. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are other “impossible” pregnancies out there, but the ones I am aware of are Sarah (Abraham’s wife) and Elizabeth (mother of John the Baptist). God may not be planning something quite so memorable for your children, but what else do you make of conception in an impossible situation than the fact that God must want it.

I have been trying different methods of NFP for ten years. Nothing has worked. It’s not going to.

I also know people who “tried” to use NFP for most of their marriage. In reality, when they say “it didn’t work,” that often means that they didn’t follow it carefully enough, or they need to be more conservative. Maybe it is true that NFP absolutely will not possibly ever work with your body. Again, I ask you - why would God give you a body whose only option was to commit mortal sin with it? That goes against the nature of God. He would not compel you to mortal sin. Therefore, if there truly is no way with NFP, then God must want something else out of you than you are seeing or accepting.

Such extensive abstinence would be an enormous strain on our marriage. My husband would never agree to it. He might even leave me.

I believe you that it would be an enormous strain. My understanding is that the current situation of unpredictable, uncontrollable, unplanned pregnancies is also causing an enormous strain. But when you marry, it is for better or worse, not “only if there are no enormous strains.” I’m with “Soren” on his reaction to your husband being willing to leave you over it, and if that is truly the case, then I wouldn’t only question his love for you, but I would question his love for the children whose lives he would be willing to shatter. He is called to more than that. A man who would abandon his children over sex is a selfish man indeed. And while I would never advise it, if he really wants to commit serious sin AND get his jollies, there are ways to do that without leaving your wife and abandoning your children. This is why I don’t believe a man who says that it would be physically impossible for him to get through marriage without sleeping with his wife - gee how do all those teenage boys manage it??? Again, I am not condoning such behavior, but just expecting honesty. Rather, he is called as a husband to love his wife as Christ loved the Church (think of the sacrifice Christ went through for the Church), and he is called as a Father, to be their first (and most important) representative of God. God does not abandon. He sacrifices.

You have 9 months. I would suggest a nightly prayer WITH your husband for your marriage. And I would suggest daily prayer of another form as well - the Rosary, Chaplet of Mercy, Novenas…In fact I’d strongly suggest the novena - other people know some really good ones - perhaps a 54 day novena. Pray a novena for the intention of you and your husband knowing the best course of action, and for you to have clarity and peace about God’s will in your life. Visit the blessed sacrament frequently throughout this pregnancy, go to weekday Masses as often as you can. You are in an extraordinary situation. Don’t just go to extraordinary medical lengths. Go to extraordinary spiritual lengths to deal with this burden.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

God chose to send you this little baby right now, despite the fact that you were trying to make it clear that you did not want to be pregnant at this time. From the beginning of time God had designed this little one and had chose you and your husband as the parents!!!

I know it is difficult sometimes for us to understand why God makes certain decisions, and I know you are going through a rough time.

The one thing I want you to think about is how this time on Earth is but a blink of an eye compared to Eternity. We have this short time to try to show God our love for Him, try to seek what He wants from us (and He chose to send you both this little baby, even if the timing seems awful to you and even if you were trying to avoid getting pregnant). His will does not include either of you getting sterilized; it just doesn’t. It is harmful for both of you, intrinsically evil.

Now, I understand what you are trying to say, flawed as the logic may be, about wanting to do the harm yourself because you are worried about your husband doing something harmful to his soul. And you should worry about it, it is not good! Nevertheless, doing the harm yourself instead is not going to be better for either of you. He needs to see your example of strength, of not giving in to the temptation of taking the easier (more harmful) way out of your situation (and I, too, have heard stories of people getting pregnant after getting their tubes tied, vasectomies etc, so depending on what you do, it may not really solve your issue after all).

If he is low on his faith right now, he reaaaally needs you. So does your family. They need you to be an example of Faith. Through your example you can lead everyone on to a better path. Giving a bad example will just be harmful to your soul, and you can lead them astray as well! Think about this. The rules of the Church aren’t out there without a reason, or to make our lives miserable etc. They follow natural law, they follow God’s moral law, they guide us to do what is best for us, for our families, for society. When we die we will understand some of the things we may not understand here. We need to trust the years of wisdom of the Church, through the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit. God knows our hearts, we can’t trick Him trying to find loopholes and hardening our hearts. We need to trust Him even when, especially when, we are in seemingly impossible situations. Put yourself in His hands. Ask Him, beg Him, to help you find the correct path for your situation. You just found out about this unexpected pregnancy, give yourself time to adjust to this idea of receiving this new little blessing.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Then what the HELL am I supposed to do?? I’ve had it.

Go to another doctor and weigh your options. There is no use worrying about something that may not even come about. The next doctor you see may want you to try a combination pill to regulate your menstrual cycle. The pill would also have the side effect of making you infertile. You may suffer secondary infertility after the birth of your fourth child. You may find that your fertility heads downhill very fast (not unlikely given that you have PCOS). Worry about today’s problems.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Whatever you do will be difficult, and doing the moral thing will be even more difficult because, apparently, the spiritual head of your family and marriage is not living up to his role. I’m very sorry to see that this is the case. The only thing to be done is to do the morally correct thing, which is not get sterilized and not use artificial birth control, but this might also be the most painful thing you have to do. This may be cold comfort to you, but history is replete with people suffering precisely because they’ve chosen to do the right thing.

 

[The_Bucket]

Worry about today’s problems.

This is a very, very strong suggestion. You have all of the time over the course of this pregnancy to go. Depending on your situation, you might have another six months of infertility with LAM. That’s more than a year before this burden becomes reality.

I’m by nature a very anxious person. My pornography addiction made it dramatically worse. After getting some time into recovery, my wife signed off on being OK with another child. She wanted one for awhile but I was the one saying “no, we don’t have enough money, etc. etc. etc.” The truth is that I was just terrified of everything.

Well no sooner was she OK with it did she become pregnant… and then become terrified. Terrified that I would freak out. Terrified that the anxiety would push me back into my addiction. Terrified that the serious health issues that nearly killed her and our son (who spent the first 4.5 months of his life in the hospital) would come back. Terrified that her being terrified would manifest itself in physical stress can cause a miscarriage or preterm labor.

So then I was thrust into a situation where I actually had to be the man, the head of the household for the first time in probably five years. Think that was an easy task? I’m a spiritual cripple courtesy of my addiction. But I actually found that the “one day at a time” mantra that my program teaches has been a gigantic help.

Our next child is due in a few months. It’s still a scary prospect, but it’s also exciting now. I’m not looking forward to the month and a half we’ll have to abstain after delivery. I know that might be a temptation to sin. That makes me nervous. I also know I can’t think about that right now.

The past and the future are artificial constructs of our own and collective minds. God’s omniscience makes everything that has ever happened or will happen seem as if it is in the present.

Therefore, the only person who lives in the past or future is you. God is not there. That is why the past is haunting and the future is scary. Because God is not there. You are there alone. He is, however, right next to you right now. That is what you should focus on.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

No, he is not willing to go to counseling. We can’t afford it right now anyway.

Catholic Charities offers counseling on a sliding income scale - if you are strapped for money, it is essentially free. But if he’s not willing, I assume he is not willing at any price.

It is a shame that your husband is willing to risk his and your immortal soul for child-free sex.

 

[sdeco]

You may suffer secondary infertility after the birth of your fourth child. You may find that your fertility heads downhill very fast (not unlikely given that you have PCOS).

I guarantee you I will not be that lucky.

It is a shame that your husband is willing to risk his and your immortal soul for child-free sex.

But he doesn’t see it that way at all. He doesn’t think it’s a sin. He thinks it would be the responsible thing to do.

 

[Rose74]

Let your husband make his own decision. If he doesn’t think it is a sin, then it may be venial for him because he doesn’t do it with full knowledge. Not understanding the teaching mitigates his culpability.

 

[1ke]

Is your NFP doctor Na-Pro trained? Pope Paul VI Institute may be able to assist with the underlying issue, rather than the apparent NFP difficulties resulting from your condition.

 

[sdeco]

Let your husband make his own decision. If he doesn’t think it is a sin, then it may be venial for him because he doesn’t do it with full knowledge. Not understanding the teaching mitigates his culpability.

This is kind of the way I’m leaning.

Is your NFP doctor Na-Pro trained? Pope Paul VI Institute may be able to assist with the underlying issue, rather than the apparent NFP difficulties resulting from your condition

.

Yes, my Dr. is napro-trained. I think she even studied with Dr. hilgers. Hasn’t been able to help me much.

 

[Rico_S]

But he doesn’t see it that way at all. He doesn’t think it’s a sin. He thinks it would be the responsible thing to do.

Yes. Quotes like:

t is a shame that your husband is willing to risk his and your immortal soul for child-free sex

or

I speak as a husband here: the thought that any man would leave his wife because they must abstain from sex revolts me. I can’t understand how a man can say “I love you” to his wife and yet leave her over such a thing. Do you think he truly loves you?

I am sure there are more…and I have seen so many in other threads making illogical conclusions like “so if you were injured and couldn’t have sex any more your husband would leave you. how awful of him”

These lines of reasoning completely fail to see that the other person involved (here, and in the majority of these threads) does not believe in the truth of Church teachings regarding sex and contraception. Here is a man who is a fallen away catholic who holds little value in the teachings of the church, but loved his wife enough to practice NFP with her for 10 years. What a monster!!

After practicing the only option provided for the church for 10 years, it has reached the point that that it seems that even NFP is not an option for this couple anymore…the marital embrace is likely to be completely taken off the table if she is to continue to follow church teaching. Of course he would react harshly! Sure, abstinence is doable and a marriage without sex can still be filled with love and intimacy…but,** in his mind, *abstinence is being forced b/c of church teachings. * It is not the same as being forced into abstinence b/c of injury or medical condition. I don’t understand why it is hard to see this reality and the “non-catholic” spouse always gets demonized in these situations.

As for the OP… I don’t have a good solution, but I feel terrible for you and I understand how difficult this must be for both of you.

 

[The_Bucket]

After practicing the only option provided for the church for 10 years, it has reached the point that that it seems that even NFP is not an option for this couple anymore…the marital embrace is likely to be completely taken off the table if she is to continue to follow church teaching. Of course he would react harshly! Sure, abstinence is doable and a marriage without sex can still be filled with love and intimacy…but,** in his mind, *abstinence is being forced b/c of church teachings. * It is not the same as being forced into abstinence b/c of injury or medical condition. I don’t understand why it is hard to see this reality and the “non-catholic” spouse always gets demonized in these situations.

I think it would be much, much easier if the “non-Catholic” spouse here was actually not Catholic as opposed to one who is fallen away. If there was an interreligious marriage situation I think the OP’s husband would have been praised for living up to the Church’s teaching. At least I would hope so. I know I would have given him, ahem, “mad props” for it.

As it is, I think he deserves credit for following through based on the respect he has for his wife. But divorcing over a lack of sex or a disagreement over morals that results in a lack of sex is to me pretty messed up. Then again, I don’t support separation or divorce for anything short of emotional/spiritual/physical abuse.

 

[Eufrosnia]

This is kind of the way I’m leaning.

If your husband does not know it, since you already do know it, this is not a venial sin for you but could be a mortal one. So the act itself will probably be a mortal/venial sin for your husband but you do have a duty and an obligation to inform him of what he is doing. Not doing so could be mortal sin.

 

[Brendan_64]

Love is unconditional, if he would leave you because you want to abstain from sex for very moral reasons, then clearly he doesn’t love you.

One partner feeling pressurised into committing a mortal sin by getting sterilised in order that they can have sex without any chance of child-birth could be considered as grounds for annulment of the marriage.

Sometimes you have to make difficult choices in your lifestyle in order to follow Jesus. The difficulties faced with such changes in lifestyle are nothing in comparison to the potential penalty for sin.

Looking for some sort of ‘loophole’ to have this done while mitigating the seriousness of the sin is simply adding another sin on top of it. If you are complicit in your husband getting sterilised then you are guilty of the sin yourself.