Would this be considered "shacking up?"

[jmcrae]

jmcrae, keep up the good work.

Thank you!

 

[jmcrae]

Just FYI:

it’s (sic)

The term (sic) indicates that you thought I made a grammatical error.

“It’s” is short for “it is.” The apostrophe (’) stands in for the “i” in “is.”

 

[jmcrae]

And…remember: Just because YOU wouldn’t do something, doesn’t mean its “wrong.”

“Living together” is wrong. Always has been, and always will be. We have God’s word on it; it’s not just “my opinion.”

If we’re not here to uphold God’s truth, then we should change the name of this Bulletin Board to “Making You Feel Good About Your Sins Answers,” instead of “Catholic Answers.”

 

[Karianne]

I know more about annulments than you give me credit for. However it’s a moot point as I have no interest in interviewing the people on this forum who have had divorces. I just don’t assume. Period.

I have a priest I can talk to about this, we are seeing him next month to iron out details about the wedding. I was just throwing out this idea to see everyone’s take on it. Apparently, some people have treated me as if I have already started packing.

We’ve already done the Engaged Encounter weekend.

Let’s see…Mom and Dad shacked up, they’re divorced. The other family members are still married.

Yes, it was interesting to read the different opinions on your situation, but no one here is really qualified to give anything more than an opinion, so I hope that you’re able to talk to the priest and get his take on this before you make your decision.
Unless you are intimate with your intended before marriage, it would not be shacking up.
The area you live in is VERY high rent, I don’t blame you for not wanting to pay an extra month’s rent. I have seen ROOMS that go for as high as 600 a month, to me that outrageous…however the landlord’s can get it because it’s a safe, beautiful area and the address has definite cache…now my address is Wheaton, some folks call it WHEATON Southeast, cuz it’s so low rent.

 

[Karianne]

“Living together” is wrong. Always has been, and always will be. We have God’s word on it; it’s not just “my opinion.”

If we’re not here to uphold God’s truth, then we should change the name of this Bulletin Board to “Making You Feel Good About Your Sins Answers,” instead of “Catholic Answers.”

Judith, no one here is condoning sex before marriage. You have no idea how expensive it is to live in certain areas of the states. If two people can restrain themselves and keep their virtue how is living in a house different from both of them renting a room in the same house?

 

[Karianne]

Stratus,

It sounds like this exercise has been fruitful in that you have come up with some alternatives on your own. I am in the camp that believes that if you move in with him prior to marriage, there will be temptation, so I pray that you and your fiancee will remain strong.

Everyone else,

There seems to be some heated discussion regarding the “public scandal” factor. Please do not treat this issue lightly, as in our parish one of the EMs is cohabitating and I am hearing of discord among neighbors about it. And when there was a Theology-on-Tap session on the topic of why cohabitation was bad, the director of family ministries for the neighboring diocese said that people who cohabitate should not be in a leadership position in church.

Living together does not mean that they are intimate.

Why can’t you believe the best of the EM and figure that he/she would never be an EM if he were living in sin?

Some people do not have the money to rent an apt by themselves, if they move in with a person of the same sex the same people who whispered about them behind their back when they were living with a member of the Opp Sex would probably start whispering that they were homosexual. This is why people can only attempt to please the Lord in their lives, they will never please everyone else, and only their priests know exactly what is going on in their lives.

 

[jmcrae]

Judith, no one here is condoning sex before marriage. You have no idea how expensive it is to live in certain areas of the states. If two people can restrain themselves and keep their virtue how is living in a house different from both of them renting a room in the same house?

Because they would be taking on the privileges of marriage before the vows have been made - unless somehow they don’t manage to see each other in the mornings and in the evenings? She doesn’t make his breakfast for him, or he doesn’t take out the trash for her? But that would be very awkward, I think.

It would be really hard to not do the “married lady” or “married man” types of things, when sharing a house together, I would think.

That’s why the Church forbids people who are living together even without sex to have any role in the Church; because sex isn’t the be-all or end-all of marriage - in fact, the majority of marriage is these little servant-type actions that we do for one another, and those would be pretty much unavoidable if they are living together in the same house, sharing the same kitchen, etc.

Living in separate apartments, there would be less opportunity or temptation to do that, and it would be much more on the level of “courtship,” rather than “playing house,” whenever it did happen, since they would have to travel to the other person’s place to do it.

 

[Norseman82]

Why can’t you believe the best of the EM and figure that he/she would never be an EM if he were living in sin?

From what I know of those condos and the fact that she has children from a previous marriage living there too, the probability that they have separate bedrooms is close to zero. Granted, I’ve never been in their condo, but what I know of other condos in that building that is my observation.

But please also note that it’s not just me, it’s other parishoners who are making comments along the lines of “Gee, the church let’s people living together to hand out communion” (the type of comment that was alluded to by an earlier poster), so if anything it only reinforces the concerns of public scandal.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

Because they would be taking on the privileges of marriage before the vows have been made - unless somehow they don’t manage to see each other in the mornings and in the evenings? She doesn’t make his breakfast for him, or he doesn’t take out the trash for her? But that would be very awkward, I think.

It would be really hard to not do the “married lady” or “married man” types of things, when sharing a house together, I would think.

That’s why the Church forbids people who are living together even without sex to have any role in the Church; because sex isn’t the be-all or end-all of marriage - in fact, the majority of marriage is these little servant-type actions that we do for one another, and those would be pretty much unavoidable if they are living together in the same house, sharing the same kitchen, etc.

Living in separate apartments, there would be less opportunity or temptation to do that, and it would be much more on the level of “courtship,” rather than “playing house,” whenever it did happen, since they would have to travel to the other person’s place to do it.

But here;s the thing, when I lived in an apt in college it was 2 girls and 2 guys in a 2 bedroom not coed bedrooms. Responibilites were divied up amongst us. I am the neat freak so I cleaned the apartment. The boys did the trash and beer bottle returns and my female roommate was THE best cook I have ever met, She beats my mother, my grandmother and all of my aunts combined (me I didn’t get that gene I could figure out a way to burn water). It’s continued to be that way amongst all of my roommates, my boyfriend included.

I went to go look for a 1 bedroom apartment. My max that I could spend was 700 bucks a month. That’s reasonable in a lot of places. But in major cities, you can’t rent a room in a crackden for 700. I looked at several places. Here;s the best one, no lies, no exagerations…

     Garden style apartment, Heat and electricty included 700. Now this soundedgreat.  I don't mind garden style.

We get there. It’s in the basement. Not a remodeled finished basement. It’s THE BASEMENT. And not even the whole basement only about 1/4 of it. There were no windows. So that’s why the electric was included! I would have to have a bunch of sun lamps 12 hours a day to simulate daylight! The kitchen… was a mini fridge and a hotplate. The kitchen sink was also the bathroom sink. The toilet and shower were also in the kitchen. So I could put a hot pocket in the microwave and watch it cook while I peed. YUM. I won’t even get into the neighborhood.

This is why I chose to share a 2 bedroom with my boyfriend.

 

[Karianne]

Remember, God is all knowing and as long as commonsense remains a subset of knowledge, I think you’ll be OK even though a “one-liner” from the Bible might in someone’s opinion be viewed otherwise.

S9

Yours are the kind of posts that scare me because you are clearly a very intelligent, thoughtful person who knows her stuff!
People like you always raise the level of a discussion to a debate, and while I can learn from you, I can seldom score points in a debate with you.
Are you a lawyer, or Jesuit trained by any chance.

 

[Karianne]

From what I know of those condos and the fact that she has children from a previous marriage living there too, the probability that they have separate bedrooms is close to zero. Granted, I’ve never been in their condo, but what I know of other condos in that building that is my observation.

But please also note that it’s not just me, it’s other parishoners who are making comments along the lines of “Gee, the church let’s people living together to hand out communion” (the type of comment that was alluded to by an earlier poster), so if anything it only reinforces the concerns of public scandal.

I would talk to him directly. I’ve directly told friends with children that living together with their boyfriends is not good for the kids.
He may be having some kind of financial difficulty that you could help with, or he may be living there to help her out, if her ex isn’t paying child support which is more prevalent than we all like.
Money tends to determine a lot of decisions for folks.

 

[E.E.N.S]

The Church’s constant teaching rejects cohabitation outside of marriage as an acceptable arrangement for Christian living.

Taken from here.

Theological and Spiritual Reasons

The second reason people have not heard about cohabitation involves the theological and spiritual, and it is twice as pernicious as the first. The soft theology and ambiguity that now inhabits our churches, universities, and seminaries has its roots in Protestantism. With the Reformers insistence on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through Scripture alone, the mediating community (for Catholics, the Magisterium) has lost its authority to the individual’s own feeling of right and wrong. Truth is now defined as “how I see it,”12a concept that has found a home in the modern Catholic academe.13Although never officially enshrined in Catholic doctrine, many have wrongly interpreted the Second Vatican Council’s documents on Pastoral Constitution of the Church in the Modern World (#16)14 and The Declaration on Religious Liberty (#3),15which spoke of the primacy of the individual’s conscience.16 Many failed to place these documents in the context of the constant Church teaching that a Catholic conscience must be formed in accord with the authentic Magisterium.17 This misunderstanding has led to a multitude of magisteria, professional and lay, which has produced the watered-down cafeteria-style Catholicism that now exists in the Western World. Historical Consciousness, which claims that truth is time-conditioned, has spawned teleologies such as proportionalism, consequentialism, and intentionality that now dominate Catholic higher education and have filtered down to the people in the pews,18 or at least to the 28% of Catholics who still attend Mass on a regular basis.19

The effects of personalized religion limits the preaching of both the natural law and supernatural revelation which would specifically challenge certain lifestyles. In this world-view no one is immoral; everybody is okay, and we are all going to heaven. Traditional Christian principles are certainly alien to the hearer, and they may be dangerous for the preacher to proclaim. Yet, if people are not told and reminded of the Truths of the Faith and the consequences of not living them, the salvation of souls is at stake. Because of this system failure, “In 1990, 2.9 million couples lived together without marriage—up 80% from 1980 and 454% from 1970.”20 The data clearly indicate that the failure to preach the moral wrongness of cohabitation is at least partially responsible for its exponential increase.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

The Church’s constant teaching rejects cohabitation outside of marriage as an acceptable arrangement for Christian living.

Taken from here.

Then you should have told my college that they should have provided housing for upperclassmen. Or call Menino and have him reinstate rent control

 

[E.E.N.S]

Then you should have told my college that they should have provided housing for upperclassmen. Or call Menino and have him reinstate rent control

Have a problem with it? Take it up with Rome. Better yet, take it up with God as He is the Lawmaker.

This is not my opinion, it’s simply the teaching of the Church.

 

[Karianne]

Then you should have told my college that they should have provided housing for upperclassmen. Or call Menino and have him reinstate rent control

Once again, it’s all about trying to make five dollars stretch to ten in a high rent area.
It’s an issue that some are fortunate never to have to deal with. Since I did, and I do, my take is going to be a little more practical.

 

[Karianne]

Have a problem with it? Take it up with Rome. Better yet, take it up with God as He is the Lawmaker.

This is not my opinion, it’s simply the teaching of the Church.

The Church will make exceptions for those who can’t manage financially. Or if they have a weakness. As you know, some priests who are alcoholics are allowed to use grape juice at Communion.

 

[Karin]

Oh please…if for money reasons you can not afford rent on your own then get a roommate of the same sex…there is no need to “play house” to pay the rent…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

The Church will make exceptions for those who can’t manage financially. Or if they have a weakness. As you know, some priests who are alcoholics are allowed to use grape juice at Communion.

**What? **

---

Could you provide documentation supporting this?

---

I don’t doubt that it may be done, but I want to know if it is right.

---

malia

 

[Karin]

**What? **

Could you provide documentation supporting this?

I don’t doubt that it may be done, but I want to know if it is right.

malia

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMUSTM.HTM

 

[Karianne]

**What? **

---

Could you provide documentation supporting this?

---

I don’t doubt that it may be done, but I want to know if it is right.

---

malia

Actually, the only documentation I could give you would be the same sources that you have.
I wouldn’t presume to instruct you.
What if I’m wrong?