Would you like to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo Missae leading to a return to only the TLM?

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catherine_m said:
I truely believe that the TLM is far more respectful and free of liturgical abuse than the NO. And I have never heard heresy preached by a Priest at a TLM which unfortunately I cannot say about the NO. That is the experience I have had as a Roman Catholic.
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I think that, in order for this discussion to be fruitful, we need to distinguish between the OF as it was promulgated and any abuses of it that may have come afterwards. I would like to see a phasing out of liturgical abuse and heresy from the pulpit, yes, and so would everyone here I hope, but I would prefer to keep the OF itself available for those who desire it.
 
JReducation said:
  1. Someone asked him to explain why God had cooperated with evolution, instead of creating the world in six days as the Bible says. He answered, “The Bible is not a science book. It talks about who God is. As to why? God doesn’t have to justify himself. He’s God, take it or leave it.”
I don’t think that’s the fruit of weak catechesis. What do you think?
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I think that is a sign of some of the weakness in Catechesis for years.

The Magisteruim of the Catholic Church had always taught creationism. God created the world through a special creation. The Church fathers and later Popes have always believed in a six day creation. There are no errors in the Bible. While it’s true that the Bible is not a scientific book however. when the Bible touches on science it’s inerrant. There are no mistakes when the Bible speaks on culture, history, science.

more info: kolbecenter.org/
 
Joannm said:
Pope Benedict did not begin the re-translation of the Missal. The Roman Missal, the Latin version, was redone in 2000. The translation into English has been in the works since then. The translation into English not only involved our country but evey country in the world that has English as its liturgical language. Every episcopal conference has to approve the translations and then it has to be approved by Rome. That is why it is taking over 7 years to translate. So Benedict really had nothing to do with it./QUOTE

i beg your pardon, forgive my ignornace
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JReducation said:
I’m not sure what you mean by light. My Jewish son became a Catholic because of Life Teen. A friend of his invited him. He kept going and eventually entered the RCIT. In our parish it’s run by the Teen Life ministry.

At that time he was in 11th grade and didn’t really enjoy any form of school, he never missed a class and did everything they taught him.

I’ll share some examples of the results.
  1. He was asked to choose a confirmation name, research the name and explain what that name meant to him. He chose Michael in honor of the Archangel. He said that he had chosen it because Michael is a warrior and he believes that there are too many things wrong in the world that need to be fixed. He was able to take the theology of the Archangel and apply it to daily life.
  2. Someone asked him to explain why God had cooperated with evolution, instead of creating the world in six days as the Bible says. He answered, “The Bible is not a science book. It talks about who God is. As to why? God doesn’t have to justify himself. He’s God, take it or leave it.”
I don’t think that’s the fruit of weak catechesis. What do you think?

JR 🙂
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Well maybe some places and different leaders are different as to how much they put in, but i know a few folks involved in Life teen in my diocese and they say that its prety much an elementary school religion class. No real dogma or doctrine, just the “feel good” and “Jesus loves you” ****, which i am sick and tired of hearing. Im waiting for my priest to actually preach Dogma from the pulpit! And wasnt Life teen suspected of heretical teaching lately, i thought i heard that, i could be wrong.
 
JReducation said:
  1. Someone asked him to explain why God had cooperated with evolution, instead of creating the world in six days as the Bible says. He answered, “The Bible is not a science book. It talks about who God is. As to why? God doesn’t have to justify himself. He’s God, take it or leave it.”
I don’t think that’s the fruit of weak catechesis. What do you think?

JR 🙂
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Sounds like he knows what the Church teaches. The Bible is not a science book. It seems like I remember a guy named Galileo…
 
Aragorn1 said:
I think that, in order for this discussion to be fruitful, we need to distinguish between the OF as it was promulgated and any abuses of it that may have come afterwards. I would like to see a phasing out of liturgical abuse and heresy from the pulpit, yes, and so would everyone here I hope, but I would prefer to keep the OF itself available for those who desire it.
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AMEN!!! You jit it right on the drum head! how caome none of us could say it that simply!
 
pnewton said:
Sounds like he knows what the Church teaches. The Bible is not a science book. It seems like I remember a guy named Galileo…
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yeas and he was correct, but the bible itself doesnt actually desribe the cosmos. the old cosmos was of pagan Greek origin, not Scriptural origin so… but evolution is nowhere mentioned in the bible and is directly refuted by Genesis.
 
saint_rafael said:
I think that is a sign of some of the weakness in Catechesis for years.

The Magisteruim of the Catholic Church had always taught creationism. God created the world through a special creation. The Church fathers and later Popes have always believed in a six day creation. There are no errors in the Bible. While it’s true that the Bible is not a scientific book however. when the Bible touches on science it’s inerrant. There are no mistakes when the Bible speaks on culture, history, science.

more info: kolbecenter.org/
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so since dinosaurs arnt in Scripture then what are those big things in the museum down the road, satanic ploys to throw us off?

just for the record i havnt ruled that possibilty out yet…Satan is crafty…
 
I’d like to see a two lists compiled. One list of quotes by clergy speaking negatively about the EF, and one of clergy speaking negatively about the OF.

I suppose if we were to compile such a list, the fans of the NO would be very disgruntled, while the traditionalists would be quite pleased with the amount of support for their own position.

Notice I said Clergy. Priests, Bishops, Cardinals, Popes.
 
Brian777 said:
AMEN!!! You jit it right on the drum head! how caome none of us could say it that simply!
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Because some of us can’t even spell simple words like “hit” and “come”. 😛

Just kidding with you friend. 🙂
 
Originally Posted by Cat
No.
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I would like to see a phasing out of Catholics who make accusations that Holy Mother Church is allowing the faithful to be victimized by a corrupt translation of the Holy Mass.
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Deacon_Ed_B said:
I ama totally with you on this one Cat
:Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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What about those that would want to see no return to the traditions of the Catholic Church which have been handed down by Christ Himself or organically developed? Seems as if there are a tons more of those people around. C’mon, seriously, what percentage of people make accusations that the Holy Mass has been corrupted? That kind of thinking is really paranoid, if you ask me.
 
Aragorn1 said:
I think that, in order for this discussion to be fruitful, we need to distinguish between the OF as it was promulgated and any abuses of it that may have come afterwards. I would like to see a phasing out of liturgical abuse and heresy from the pulpit, yes, and so would everyone here I hope, but I would prefer to keep the OF itself available for those who desire it.
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Phasing out of liturgical abuses will never happen as long as people are flocking towards charismatic experiences. The Catholic Church can’t afford the emigration toward that growing culture. You want the OF, you have to accept it as is, no conditions. It was designed for many options and, if anything, they’ll be more creative with it. But if you insist on trying to find a reverent one, you’re probably going to be spending a lot of Sunday gas miles to find it every Sunday. Might be easier just to find the EF or a Byzantine.
 
Brian777 said:
So liturgical abuse is a good thing then? how do you propose to stop it if it is an evil? and if it isnt, why do so many people care?
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I think a good way to stop them is to let each develop into what it is suppose to be. A mass, the unbloody sacrifice of calvary reenacted for us whereby Jesus comes to us as the food of eternal life. Its like I want to scream out, what are you doing. You are talking about the HOLY MASS and tearing it apart as if it were a second rate Broadway show. Stop and take a breath. What in the world do you think this is doing for those who are inquiring into the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. How many have you driven away so far. Want to go for some more. Just keep it up. You will succeed.
For heavens sake, prayers and blessings for us all, by us all
Deacon Ed B
 
saint_rafael said:
I think that is a sign of some of the weakness in Catechesis for years.

The Magisteruim of the Catholic Church had always taught creationism. God created the world through a special creation. The Church fathers and later Popes have always believed in a six day creation. There are no errors in the Bible. While it’s true that the Bible is not a scientific book however. when the Bible touches on science it’s inerrant. There are no mistakes when the Bible speaks on culture, history, science.

more info: kolbecenter.org/
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This is the official teaching of the Magisterium today.

**“We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the ‘project’ of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary – rather than mutually exclusive – realities.”

(Cardinal Ratzinger, In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall [Eerdmans, 1986, 1995], see especially pages 41-58)**

The teachings of Genesis remain unchanged. Genesis teaches us what man is and who God is, not the biological development of man or the universe.

Evolution does not attempt to explain the nature of man or the nature of God, but to explain the biological development of the universe.

Finally, the Church teaches that both are realities and they are complimentary.

Nothing is taken away from what the inerrancy of scripture.

Let us not forget that the early Church excommunicated Galileo and Copernicus for saying that the Earth revolved around the Sun, simply because it was not in scripture. Scripture describes the Earth as flat.

It is no surprise that the Church should refresh her stance on evolution, since she has to accept the fact that she has been wrong in areas of science in the past.

What my son said is not a weakness in theology. It is the theology of the Church and will remain that way until further scientific efidence is available.

JR 🙂
 
Brian777 said:
so since dinosaurs arnt in Scripture then what are those big things in the museum down the road, satanic ploys to throw us off?

just for the record i havnt ruled that possibilty out yet…Satan is crafty…
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I think it’s possible to state that dinosaurs are part the beasts of Genesis 1:24. There has been evidence by scientists to show that man and dinosaurs co-existed at the same time.

kolbecenter.org/
 
Brian777 said:
No real dogma or doctrine, just the “feel good” and “Jesus loves you” ****, which i am sick and tired of hearing.
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I don’t know about you, but I hope I keep hearing it for eternity.
wasnt Life teen suspected of heretical teaching lately, i thought i heard that, i could be wrong.
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This I have not heard. If it is true, it may be from an erroneous instructor in one parish. Not the entire life team program
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
JR,

The Passage from Cardinal Ratzinger is in no way the magisteruim. It is ridiculous to state that a book from one Catholic Cardinal is the magisteruim. That is a private opinion. The ordinary magisterium is the infallible teachings of Popes and bishops united to him that come from tradition and the councils.

The Magisteium speaks in the teaching of Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis, when he states the infallible teaching that Genesis is historical in it’s true sense:

Humani Generis:
  1. “If anyone examines the state of affairs outside the Christian fold, he will easily discover the principal trends that not a few learned men are following. Some imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution, which has not been fully proved even in the domain of natural sciences,…”
  2. “…This Letter, in fact, clearly points out that the first eleven chapters of Genesis, although properly speaking not conforming to the historical method used by the best Greek and Latin writers or by competent authors of our time, do nevertheless pertain to history in a true sense,…”
  3. “Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which through generation is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.”
As Far as Galileo is concerned, Robert Sungenis, a great Catholic apologist wrote a book defending the Catholic position on Geocentrism, called “Galileo was Wrong: the Church was Right” in Volumes I and II.
catholicintl.com/
 
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