Would you like to see the TLM back?

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bogeyjlg:
Thanks.

In that case, I don’t know. Never been to one. I like hearing the mass in latin. I have also heard it in other languages. I wouldn’t mind attending one, but I don’t know if I’d want to have it all the time.
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Just to note: while their are many similaities between the prayers of the TLM and that of the NO (the rite in common use), there are differences in order, options, some prayers are completely deleted, etc.

If you have time perhaps you would like to watch one?
A Solemn High Mass by the Institute of Christ the King

A website of pictures and videos of the TLM
 
I voted ‘no’ because I want to see the Novus Ordo celebrated more in Latin. I agree with the original intent of Vatican II’s documents and the Pauline Mass.

One reason for my desire to increase the Latin mass is the need of Bi-Lingual masses (English/Spanish) in my area. While the Hispanics have a seperate mass to attend on Sundays, duing High Holy Days (Easter, Midnight Mass, Good Friday, etc) bi-lingual masses are celebrated. I feel that a great attribute of the Latin mass is that people of different tongues can celebrate together and understand the Latin celebration. Thus, awkward, bi-lingual masses are not needed.

Thoughts?
 
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campion:
I voted ‘no’ because I want to see the Novus Ordo celebrated more in Latin. I agree with the original intent of Vatican II’s documents and the Pauline Mass.

One reason for my desire to increase the Latin mass is the need of Bi-Lingual masses (English/Spanish) in my area. While the Hispanics have a seperate mass to attend on Sundays, duing High Holy Days (Easter, Midnight Mass, Good Friday, etc) bi-lingual masses are celebrated. I feel that a great attribute of the Latin mass is that people of different tongues can celebrate together and understand the Latin celebration. Thus, awkward, bi-lingual masses are not needed.

Thoughts?
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How many Catholics do you think speak and understand Latin? Out of 1.2 billion, very few I think.
 
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campion:
I voted ‘no’ because I want to see the Novus Ordo celebrated more in Latin. I agree with the original intent of Vatican II’s documents and the Pauline Mass.

One reason for my desire to increase the Latin mass is the need of Bi-Lingual masses (English/Spanish) in my area. While the Hispanics have a seperate mass to attend on Sundays, duing High Holy Days (Easter, Midnight Mass, Good Friday, etc) bi-lingual masses are celebrated. I feel that a great attribute of the Latin mass is that people of different tongues can celebrate together and understand the Latin celebration. Thus, awkward, bi-lingual masses are not needed.

Thoughts?
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Now, THAT I agree with! Because even on vacation, it is easier if the Mass is in Latin! Just because you ‘know what stage you’re at’…so, yes to the NO! But, more Latin NO’s, that is something I’d love 👍 !

Anna x
 
I would not like to see the TLM replace the NO.
In the first place the Church would be going backwards and it’s not going to happen.
I don’t have a problem with more TLMasses being made available, but I’m not convinced there is a real desire for this to happen.
As far as I’m concerned the TLM is just for ‘show’.
 
Since the question is would you like to see the Latin Mass BACK, I guess this is referring to the Tridentine Mass rather than just a Mass celebrated in Latin.

I that is the case I personally DON’T CARE!

I have no problem with some Masses being celebrated in Latin, Tridentine or Novus Ordo so long as I have a choice not to attend one if I prefer something else.
Most of the people I know like the NO or the Tridentine Mass because they like the way it makes them FEEL about the Mass and the attitude of the people in attendance. I don’t pretend to be much different. Sometimes I feel like being around apparently joyful, effervescent people. Other times I feel like being around apparently quiet, reverent people.

Hearing words in Latin can make me feel rather mysterious and other-worldly. Other times it might make me feel dazed and lost.
 
Yes…offer both, though reform/retranslate the NO and present it the way it was meant to be…not like what is existing.

james
 
I would not want to see the TLM replace the Novus Ordo. Side by side would be fine. I’m often out in the vestibule with a noisy baby and I would completely miss the Consecration most of the time since I’ve got no view and find it hard to count the bells while wrestling. I simply don’t want to miss the Consecration. Someday this might not be my situation but I know there would still be others in that boat.
 
I think most of us would agree that having a choice would be nice. Unfortunately most people don’t have a choice. I would have put a “Have them both” option in this poll.
 
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anna1978:
Tridentine Latin Mass, as it was before Vatican II. Our church still has one about 4 times a year and we have gone a few times, to see what it was like. I hated it, this priest mumbling on, barely audible, while everybody was praying the rosary, or staring at their missal…pfff…it gave me the creeps! No, I don’t ‘miss’ it and I certainly wouldn’t want it back. I converted at a time where the change had already taken place, and I must admit: I love being able to hear and understand what is being said! I do enjoy Gregorian chant though, and the odd hymn in Latin is nice too, but I’m afraid the TLM makes me feel like a spectator, on the side-lines, not taking part in what is going on at the front.

Anna x
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Ah yes, anti traditional mass apologetics at work today. Lets see, which of the catch phrases are here:

Priest mumbling on barely audible, variations include hastily muttered Latin prayers, mumbled Latin prayers, incoherent mumblings in an unknown language etc always appears

Everybody praying the rosary new twist on this one, usually it’s old ladies praying the rosary or the infamous clacking of rosary beads driving others to distraction, or people praying the rosary because they didn’t have a clue what was going on at the altar. Obligatory they never miss this one

Staring at their missals this is a totally new one, and because it is new and untried they probably were not prepared for a defense. :tsktsk:

A person reading the missal, which as you may or may or may not know, is simply a guide which explains everything in the mass, is more than likely following along with the priest, They are probably saying the prayers along with the priest, striking their breasts, genuflecting or bowing and making the sign of the cross when appropriate. In other words, full and active participation in the Mass, you’ve heard that term before haven’t you? Of course they could have an Archie comic bok concealed in there also, you never know.

Gave me the creeps haven’t seen this one in a while, with the demise of a lot of Life Teen activities. Back in the Life Teen heyday though this one really got around. Teen Life advocates always seemed to get the creeps at a Traditional Mass. Too quiet and spooky I suppose, no drums, guitars amplifiers and strobe lights to keep them occupied and awake. An oldie but goodie

Spectator and on the sidelines another perennial favorite, but given that the poster threw up the missal angle to be expected. If they don’t know what a missal is for, they probably wouldn’t understand participation at that level anyway, so they probably were just a spectator.

And that is a pity.
 
There is a beauty to silence that few of us know because of the constant noise. The glory of silence which John Paul II said is essential to prayer and especially to the Mass was available to everyone in the Tridentine Mass but is virtually extict from the Novus Ordo. If the Novus Ordo is a quasi-rock-concert or even a traditional sounding Mass, it is virtually as noisy as every day life. While I appreciate hearing what the priest says and making the responses in theory, I recently went to a dialog low-mass and I found that it was much less beautiful than the regular “mumbling-can’t hear anything” low mass because I missed the silence.

I suppose what it comes down to is that I know the prayers through and through and I don’t really need to hear them to pray along with them. Silence is an important part of poetry, and I find that prayers uttering those sighs of love that the responses are supposed to be seem less meaningful when there is constant chatter in the Church.

It’s for that reason that of all the liturgies I’ve been two–even the multiple eastern Divine Liturgies–I’ve never found a liturgy where the Lord touched me nearly as much at the Tridentine Mass. Also I’ve rarely found a Mass or Liturgy that I could walk away from feeling refreshed and strengthed. The Tridentine Mass is that liturgy for me. I have even come to love the silent canon; and that, IMHO, is the hardest part of the Tridentine Mass to come to terms with.
 
If we’re just spectators we might as well watch a movie! I was always taught that we, the people, unite ourselves together with the prayers of the priest…Now,
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there were dialouge masses where the congregation would respond and sing all of the parts that pertain to them. i went to a dominican low mass like this before.

i think the trindentine mass should have been reformed so that we could see that it grew orgainically from its parent rite. but we only see a huge discontinuity in the two masses. so much so that the churches were even renovated. the first tridentine mass i went to really shocked me; i was upset at how different it was.

the most beautiful masses i have ever been to were done in the traditional rite with a professional choir. the tridentine mass is really a work of art. it isn’t perfect, but i offers much that is lacking in the new rite.
 
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thistle:
How many Catholics do you think speak and understand Latin? Out of 1.2 billion, very few I think.
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Why are you changing the subject?

Anna
 
Those who want the TLM back would probably change their minds after about a year. I suspect we make the past seem much more glorious than it really was.

I would like to see a variation of the TLM- rather than the Novus Ordo, because it is a complete break with Tradition.
 
Pope John Paul II called for the Bishops to generously allow the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass for those who wish to worship in that way.

For those who criticize the TLM, one can make many criticisms of the Novus Ordo, not the least of which are the increase in “modern” (read-ugly) buildings constructed that are supposed to be churches.

Latin is the official language of the Catholic Church. All official documents are published in Latin. If you understand Latin, you can better understand English as well as the Romance languages. Those who attend the TLM need not become fluent in Latin to understand what is going on. Even the NO Mass is supposed to include Latin (Agnus Dei, Hosanna, Dominus vobiscum - et cum spiritu tuo) - that isn’t hard to learn.

The TLM offers quiet reverence - no hand-holding, no pianos or guitars, no lousy hymns, no ugly architecture, no bad English translation, no communion in the hand, just Worship of the Lord.
 
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Marilena:
Iam just curious, would any of you love to see the TLM back, instead of the one we have now? I voted yes. I prefer the TLM. 🙂
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I would like to have it back to attend from time to time. I wouldnt want it to replace every Mass but would love to see each parish have one per week availiable.
 
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anna1978:
, I can tell it just 'doesn’t do ’ anything for me.
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Oh well, in that case…
When I go to church I want to be able to hear the priest speak in a loud and clear voice, facing me, and I enjoy hearing prayers spoken slowly and audibly, same for the readings and the Gospel. Now, I admit this is personal taste…
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I repeat…

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I really don’t like the Orthodox liturgy either (most of dh’s family in Cyprus is Greek-Orthodox), because you can’t see a thing (the iconoclast is closed for most of the service),
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Thank God the “iconclast” is closed for most of the "service "(Divine Mysteries?). I shudder to think what might have happened if the “iconoclast” had been let loose!!!
you can barely hear the priest, people are walking around venerating icons instead of staying put and concentrating on what is going on up front…the list is endless…I know however that a lot of those relatives absolutely SWEAR by their liturgy and find it spiritually uplifting. So, I’m not saying it’s ‘wrong’ or anything,
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Oh, that’s a relief…
heck we married in a church in Limassol that had ‘Patriarchate of Jerusalem’ on the door, and their service was okay, as a one-off, but I just prefer a more ‘modern, Westernised’ Mass…
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Oh boy, do we have some Masses for you!!! (What’s a “one-off”?)
Sorry, it’s just who I am. No offense to anyone else, I just answered the question!
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On the contrary. You told us much about yourself. :rolleyes:

Anna Elizabeth
 
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m134e5:
Those who want the TLM back would probably change their minds after about a year. I suspect we make the past seem much more glorious than it really was.

I would like to see a variation of the TLM- rather than the Novus Ordo, because it is a complete break with Tradition.
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Perhaps we make the present too glorious as well.

Some of the people who have asked for permission for every priest to offer the Tridentine Mass already predominately assist at the Tridentine Mass and have for years. Some of them drive an hour or more both ways in order to assist at it. Others of us (myelf included) assist at the Tridentine Mass whenever possible, but are unable to do it as much as we’d like because of the sheer distance (about an hour for me) and the scarcity of Masses offered (for example, no daily Masses).

There already are several million world wide who hear the Triditional Latin Mass as their Sunday Mass. We might glorify the past too much, but what in the world makes us think that our chances are better than 1000+ years of continuity. For over a thousands years basically the biggest changes made to the Mass were the scaling back of prefaces and the elimination of sequences. The reason for this is over time prefaces and sequences were multiplied and some of them didn’t fit right and others of them were deemed to detract from the liturgy or to not be right for the time. I think it is understandable that a Mass that grew out 1600 hundred years of constant usage in which all the elements were time tested might appeal to certain people more than a Mass created in a commitee which has only has 36 years of testing and use.

The Novus Ordo is still in its infancy. Some people, myself included, like the stability and noble beauty of the Traditional Latin Mass. We wouldn’t get tired of it after only a year. What’s a year when it has been used for more than half of the lifetime of the Church?
 
I really don’t like the Orthodox liturgy either (most of dh’s family in Cyprus is Greek-Orthodox), because you can’t see a thing (the iconoclast is closed for most of the service),
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My understanding is that the Iconiclast was “closed” permanently after the 8th Ecumenical Council.

The Iconistasis is a power symbol. It is especially powerful because it is opened during the Easter Season. I do prefer the Western Liturgy to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, though.
 
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