Would you permit your child to attend a party in a gay household ?

[Trelow]

Werner:

So if you truely believe that all homosexuals are “are psychotic, suicidal, delusional, narcissistic, selfish, mysoginist, irrational, masochistic, anti-social, self-destructive, and prone to alchoholism and drug abuse” then you are an ********* as well.

And don’t call this believe of yours Christian or Catholic, because doing so is against the Catechism of the Catholic Church and therefore a sin

(you can save bandwith by repeating for the 7963time that homosexual acts are sinful. That is just e red herring, because here we are talking about the sin of calling your neighbor a psychotic and a drunkard, and it was Jesus himself who said you will go straight to hell if you do that)

Werner

Show me where Jesus said that calling some one a psychotic and a drunkard will send me to hell. I can show you where St. Paul says that drunkards cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Having a mental illness makes one psychotic and delusional.
Those who live that lifestyle are more prone to suicide, alchoholism and drug abuse. Proven facts.
By its very hedonistic nature homosexual sex is misogynic, selfish, irrational, masochistic, anti-social, and self-destructive.

I believe all the Church teaches. She teaches that homosexual tendencies are intrinsically disordered, and that homosexual acts are intrinsically evil. Nothing can change that. ADMONISH THE SINNER! IF YOU CONDONE HIS BEHAVIOR YOU TOO BEAR THE GUILT OF HIS SIN!

What is wrong with people?

 

[Werner]

Trelow:

Show me where Jesus said that calling some one a psychotic and a drunkard will send me to hell. I can show you where St. Paul says that drunkards cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Having a mental illness makes one psychotic and delusional.
Those who live that lifestyle are more prone to suicide, alchoholism and drug abuse. Proven facts.
By its very hedonistic nature homosexual sex is misogynic, selfish, irrational, masochistic, anti-social, and self-destructive.

I believe all the Church teaches. She teaches that homosexual tendencies are intrinsically disordered, and that homosexual acts are intrinsically evil. Nothing can change that. ADMONISH THE SINNER! IF YOU CONDONE HIS BEHAVIOR YOU TOO BEAR THE GUILT OF HIS SIN!

What is wrong with people?

Have a look at Matthew chapter 5.
Then have a look at the catechism what it says how you should handle homosexuals people.
Then tell me what is Catholic or at least just christian to say what you have supported.

Werner

 

[Giannawannabe]

GloriaPatri4:

Dear Giannawannabe,

Yes, as crazy as it sounds we are planning on continuing our childrens (the ones that are currently enrolled there) education there at least for awhile. Even though priests have advised all of us (the opposing families) against this there are a few reasons we feel we need to stay:

1. If you have read any of the other threads on this subject (I don’t know which ones you’ve read) then you know we have sent packages with letters and other evidence to various congregations in the Vatican. We have been told that we can only protest this thing if we still have children enrolled in the school.
2. I feel that by leaving we are giving up and giving in. After all we do love the school and the church. I believe we should stand up for what is right as uncomfortable as it may be, and believe me it is very uncomfortable. There are many families and I’m sure some faculty members that would love nothing more than to see our families (the opposing families) leave the school.
3. I believe that the Catholic Churches and schools in our country are in the shape that they’re in (moral decline, heretical, dissenting teaching, etc.) because people don’t address the issues, stand up for their rights, defend the church teachings, etc. they just leave for greener pastures.

I have given some serious thought to homeschooling and we may do that but not right now. Three of the opposing families that I’m aware of are planning on homeschooling next year. A couple families are switching to public school. Their mentality is: Their children will be exposed to the same thing in a public school (at least they know what to expect) as they are presently exposed to in this Catholic school but they won’t be paying tuition. They get to experience it for free. They feel it is worse to see this kind of thing happening at a Catholic school because the Catholic school is talking the talk but they’re not walking the walk. They are not practicing what they are preaching.

We will wait to hear what the Vatican has to say. And if we don’t hear from them and this stuff still continues we to will leave for greener pastures but not without knowing that we fought the good fight first.

God bless,

Wow!! You’re doing great!! I see why you’re staying at this time. My prayers are with you. Keep us updated on what the Vatican says.

God Bless
Giannawannabe

 

[Trelow]

Werner:

Have a look at Matthew chapter 5.
Then have a look at the catechism what it says how you should handle homosexuals people.
Then tell me what is Catholic or at least just christian to say what you have supported.

Werner

I am well aware what the Catechism and Bible teach. It is quite apparent that you were not taught the proper meaning of love.

We treat them with love, which is TRUTH. Letting someone chance hell is not love, rebuking there evil deeds is. Showing them how to live faithfully is. Love is wanting for someone what God wants for them. NOT ACCEPTING THEIR SINS!

If you are unable to separate the person from their sins, they quite frankly you have no business opening your mouth. In doing so you will only continue to spread a false gospel, leading people into spiritual darkness.

Wasn’t Jesus attacked for pointing the Truth out to people who didn’t want to hear it? For accepting people, but rejecting their sin?

Besides nobody is a homosexual. There are people who have homosexual attractions, and some engage in homosexual acts.
But we are all made in the image and likeness of God, and God’s not a homosexual. Please, for the sake of His Holy Name, learn to separate people from their sins.

 

[SusanL]

Many posts on this thread both shock and sadden me deeply.

I would not let my kids go to their party in the same way that I would not let my kids go to a party by a shacked up couple.

Do I sin? Oh, yes.

Have I ever committed a mortal sin? I was protestant and didn’t know about mortal sin but yes.

Did I need someone to stand up for truth in a loving but firm way? Most definitely.

I have turned down a visit to a close friend of my husband’s because he was shacking up. I wouldn’t take the kids to their house. Didn’t want to teach acceptance of a grave sin.

Look it, fellow posters: We all have to make up our minds how to handle grave sin among fellow children of God. Do not encourage any sin, especially grave sin, if you love Jesus. IMO, do not place your precious children in a circumstance of acceptance, either.

Be creative. Find ways to show love to the adopted children w/o allowing any appearance of acceptance of grave sin.

And stop fighting and calling names, please.

 

[YinYangMom]

I answered ‘yes’.

I cannot shield my kids from the evils around them, nor would I want to…and here’s why:

As with premarital sex, abortion, drug/alcohol use, foul language, masturbation, violence, etc…all things our media tends to glamorize and present as ‘normal’ (i.e. unavoidable) the best defense I know of is education…the sooner the better.

So everytime these issues are presented by the media, by the schools, by the circle of friends my children choose, and particularly by visiting relatives (aunts/uncles, cousins) who are not catholic - my husband and I use the opportunity to teach our children the position of the Church.

By focusing on arming our children with the Catechism of the Church, with our role modeling and the role modeling of our parish community, and prayer (always prayer) we gain peace of mind that when they are grown and out of the house they will continue to not be swayed by all the negative pressure around them - that they will become active voters for change, activists for the proper causes - while still being compassionate and respectful of those who are different from us. We also pray that in their interactions with people who don’t know the Truth they will present opportunities for them to convert.

We believe we are called to bring sinners into the fold of the Church through example, prayer, knowledge. How can we rise to this challenge if we isolate ourselves from sinners? And look at the multitude of opportunities this secular society of ours presents for our children (the adults of the future) to get other young people to rethink things before it’s too late?

We also believe people we cross paths with - whether for a moment or a lifetime - are part of God’s greater plan. We certainly don’t go seeking friends who are homosexual or athiest or alcoholics, etc. But we have had people with these lifestyles come into our lives one way or another. We figure God sent them to us to help them so we welcome them, hold our ground on our beliefs, subtly plant the seeds of our faith with them and then leave the rest into God’s hands.

 

[carol_marie]

YingYangMom,



Also, to posters who feel differently, I would just like to point out that I don’t believe anyone is saying that the lifestyle of the two men is acceptable. It is not. But I would not want to punish the child for the sins of the fathers and shunning the child would be doing just that. I really don’t give a hoot about the fathers - they have chosen the life they want to lead. Unfortunatly the child had no choice so it’s him that I’m concerned with. Having him thrown out of school or being alone on his birthday - how cruel is that? So I would welcome him into my prayers and into my life and hope that I could make a difference in his.

 

[chevalier]

I would consider the invidual situation. There is nothing magical about setting foot in a gay household, it doesn’t work that way. The real problem is appearing to accept their lifestyle or exposing children to corruption. Of these, probably the former is the sole real concern as the latter is quite inevitable, anyway. However, appearing to accept their lifestyle may indeed be a problem and may spread confusion.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I would not want my children or grandchildren exposed to this immoral lifestyle. By allowing the children to go to this household, we are telling our children as well as the "happy couple"that this is o.k… It is a way of being supportive in a situation that we should not
support. We can have the children of that household over to our home to play. The party can be in the park, pizza parlor, etc. I think it is o.k. to tell the “parents” the reason we are keeping our children away from their home, if they ask. (They most likely are aware that their lifestyle in unacceptable to most.) It probably won’t make any difference in their moral conviction, but it is our duty to teach our children and give good example to all.

Love and peace

 

[JimO]

No I would not. In the same way I would not let them attend a party in a household where a man and woman were living together (unmarried). I had this very issue come up with a nephew and his girlfriend who invited us over to their new place. My nephew and I are close and it hurt his feelings, but after I explained to him that I didn’t want my kids to think that I was okay with his living arrangements, he understood. Besides, I’m less concerned about my nephew’s feelings than I am about my kids’ souls.

All the publicity over the whole homosexual issue clouds the larger issue and that is that I refuse to be bullied into endorsing sin of any kind. I will no more teach my kids that it’s okay to steal, lie, or have sex out of marriage then I will teach them that it’s okay to be an active homosexual. It’s all the same. It’s sin. I’m certainly no saint and am a sinner, but even as sinners, we have the obligation to acknowledge and teach our children what is sin and what is not and to repent for our own sins. It is far better for children to see their parents repent and acknowledge their own sin than for them to watch us be silent about what is clearly sinful behavior on the part of others.

The problem today is that the culture wants to force us to believe and teach our kids that sin is no longer sin. The culture is winning at the moment too. Just look at the statistics related to how many teens think sex is okay outside of marriage. Well, then why not sex with someone of the same sex, or with oneself, or heck, with an animal. Where does it stop?

Sorry, got carried away.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Princess_Abby:

Does anyone honestly believe that their children are convinced that those who attend a Catholic parish are without sin? Is living a gay lifestyle worse than missing mass, using the Lord’s name in vain, having pre-marital heterosexual sex, looking at internet porn, presuming upon God’s mercy, drinking to excess, using drugs, WHATEVER ELSE…

Dear Princess,

The church is full of sinners and I am one. The sinful examples which you give are not the same as a homosexual couple presenting themselves as a couple or family at a Catholic school or church, it is like comparing apples and oranges. These men are publicly displaying their sin.

** How many of the sinful situations that you mention in your post would you know for a fact were happening?**

1. Missing Mass. Do you know when people miss Mass? I would never know at our parish if someone missed Mass because we have nine Masses or there are some families who are not Catholic or they may even belong to another parish. These people who are missing Mass are not advocating how great it is to miss Mass. ** Missing Mass is not a visible sin.
   **
2. Using the Lord’s name in vain. I don’t know about your parish but I don’t recall ever hearing anyone using the Lord’s name in vain at our church or school unless it was accidental in which case the person quickly apologized. I admit there may be many Catholics who habitually use the Lord’s name in vain but how many of these Catholics are advocates of using the Lord’s name in vain in front of Catholic school children? **Using the Lord’s name in vain is not a visible sin.

**3) **Pre-marital heterosexual sex. **How many people who have had pre-marital heterosexual sex are talking about or advocating it? **Pre-marital heterosexual sex is not a visible sin.

**4) **The other sins you mentioned: Looking at internet porn, presuming upon God’s mercy, drinking to excess and using drugs. **How many of these sins are visible, how many people are publicly displaying or talking about these sins at a Catholic school?

**I would like to clarify that I am by no means condoning the above mentioned sins I am merely trying to point out that these sins are not usually visible or displayed and if they were and the school was tolerating or supporting it like they are in this case be sure I would writing about that too.

**

Is living a gay lifestyle worse than missing Mass?

Mortal and Venial sin. There are sins that are worse than others. Please familiarize yourself on the varying degrees of sin. Sodomy is one of the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance.

The Church is FOR sinners.

I agree but as sinners in God’s church don’t you think that God would want us to be repentant and not trying to change everyone else into thinking that our sins are okay and and to accept are sinful ways as normal?

If Gloria wants to kick out the openly gay parents from her parish,

When did I post that? What I want is for the men to stop presenting their relationship as an alternative lifestyle choice to five hundred plus Catholic school children, parents and teachers.

she should be sure to do a thorough inventory and get rid of all those who sin in any way which may be discernible to impressionable children.

Yes, if a parent, teacher any adult repeatedly flaunted or publicly displayed a sinful lifestyle at a Catholic school in front of Catholic school children then maybe they should be asked to leave.

That if we lose our sanctifying grace and have a family someday, that due to our lifestyle, our children should be deprived of a Catholic education?

**It’s when sinful lifestyles are publicly displayed that it becomes a problem. Some sins are more visible than others.
How many childrens souls should be sacrificed for the salvation of a few? **

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I find it frustrating and annoying that saying I don’t want my child to percieve the homosexual lifestyle as normal and allowable makes me a horrible or nasty person. I do not condone being hateful to homesexuals. Their children (who’s parents have put them in a horrible situation) are welcome into my home and will not hear a mean word about their parents from me or my children. We do not use mean names for homosexuals or paint them as evil people. But they are sinning and it has been explained to my children that that lifestyle is wrong and not normal or spiritually healthy.

I would not let any of my children into their home though. Of course, there are many sinfull lifestyles I would not let my children enter… heterosexual unmarried couples, drugged out parents, single sexualy active parent, etc…

We are Catholic and the church teaches that we should love our neighbor and avoid sin. I would not feel comfortable telling my child blank is a sin and then in the same talk say go play in a house where that activity is encouraged or considered to be normal and okay. No, I do not think it would “turn” my child homosexual, but it could turn their mind to accepting a sinful and deviant act as normal and acceptable. Yes, we are not anywhere near perfect in my house either, but we are doing our best to work to avoid repeating our sins - not trying to brainwash others into thinking it’s normal and okay. If you cannot see the sin in your actions, then how can you claim to be doing your best to avoid sin or even repent of it?

Yes, it is a sad state of life for the children of these homosexual couples to live in - a life forced upon them by the sinfull and obnoxious acts of their parents. I don’t know that I’d turn the child out of the school. Can’t imagine turning a child away from learning the catholic faith (assuming the school has more than a watered version of it), but the homosexual parents would have to accept that they are sending their children into a place that will teach their child that the parents are living in mortal sin.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Rob's Wife:

Yes, it is a sad state of life for the children of these homosexual couples to live in - a life forced upon them by the sinfull and obnoxious acts of their parents. I don’t know that I’d turn the child out of the school. Can’t imagine turning a child away from learning the catholic faith (assuming the school has more than a watered version of it), but the homosexual parents would have to accept that they are sending their children into a place that will teach their child that the parents are living in mortal sin.

This subject is touched on very lightly or not at all, especially now. Everyone is walking on eggshells because they don’t want to offend anyone. I highly doubt that anyone would ever tell these men that they are in a state of mortal sin.

 

[dennisknapp]

NightRider:

Right on, vegpotter–I’m with you and Princess Abby, too. It is sooooo true that we are ALL sinners in some way. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That’s what I learned in Catechism. And that was back in the sixties!! Amen!!

So, the solution to the problem is this:

Sam: I am a gay male and I live with my husband and will never change. Hey, we even have wedding rings to prove it!

Jim: Well, I as a Christian will not judge you. I am to love you for who you are. I myself am a sinner, so we are the same basically.

Sam: Thanks, Jim. That means alot to me!

Jim: Oh, and by the way you have to change.

Sam: What? I thought you accepted me the way I am? You said we are both sinners? You said we are basically the same!

Jim: Yes, I did say that, but we all need to change our sinful ways and be more like Christ.

Sam: Well, that’s not acceptence. That’s demanding me to change!

Jim: Oh yeah, You’re right.

Is this how it is supposed to go? Because if you are espousing the love the sinner, hate the sin approach, you are demanding a change in that person whether you say so or not.

Sin is sin and needs to be repented of with or without nice feelings

Peace

 

[vegpotter]

Trelow:

Apparently you’re willing to not understand our Lord’s words.

We are not to judge the state of someones soul.
We are definatly required to judge someones actions. If not then you woudl be wrong in judging that I would be wrong in judging.

Sally - " Molly you know Jim is a member of NAMBLA, You can’t let Billy go over there unsupervised."

Molly- “HOW DARE YOU JUDGE HIM SALLY! YOU KNOW WHAT JESUS SAID ABOTU JUDGING! Besides they are haveign some sort of “photography meeting”, ther will be others there. BILLY! DON’T FORGET YORU SLEEPING BAG!”

Silly Truth, always seams to get in the way of asinine arguments.

You do know that NAMBLA stands for Man/Boy, right? They’re child molesters, not gay adult men having a relationship. This is a completely different topic.

 

[trailblazer]

I would allow my child to attend a party in a gay household because the Church does not teach that being gay is sinful; rather, it is engaging in homosexual activity. I would be sure my child understood the teachings and would not be influenced by immorality. On the otherhand, these men and women often experience prejudice. They are some of the marginalized by today’s society. Many are driven away from Christianity by non-Christian actions of those who call themselves Christian. I believe if Jesus were living today, we’d probably find him in gay bars evangelizing with his love, kindness, forgiveness-- yet strong moral stand against sexual activity. As Christians, we need to help them with love rather than hate and violence. They are a child of God and have the basic dignity of every human who was created in God’s image and likeness.

 

[Trelow]

vegpotter:

You do know that NAMBLA stands for Man/Boy, right? They’re child molesters, not gay adult men having a relationship. This is a completely different topic.

But hey, who are we to judge, right?

 

[Trelow]

trailblazer:

Many are driven away from Christianity by non-Christian actions of those who call themselves Christian…

I’d say that they are driven away because those who love the darkness fear the Light because it showes them ther error of their ways.

And nobody will tell them the Truth.

 

[mikev]

No we shouldn’t permit our child to go to this party. We should only allow our children to go places we deem to be morally safe. This is even more important if we aren’t going to be there with them.

Asked another way: Should they go to a party at the home of an abortion provider; an athiest; a pusher, etc. etc.?? I don’t think so.

Kids are too impressionable to be exposed to this stuff; especially with our approval. They’ll be subjected to plenty of immoral behaviour without our help.

 

[WhiteDove]

I think it would all depend on the people. If they are low key and respectable in other ways, then yes I would. If they are making a big deal about being gay, and are flagrent, then no. Also, I would evaluate the child. If he/she is a weird brat that I don’t like, then no.

If it’s a small child, I doubt that going to a birthday party where the people are gay will warp them for life. If they are in the pre-teens I would worry more, since they are looking for role models at that age. Some gay people are very interesting and cool people and it might be wise to not let them ibe influencing children while they are forming their own sexual identity, developing puppylove crushes, etc.

So, for me it would depend on many factors.