Would you support mandatory tracking devices on all new cars?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Sock
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
How does the government know how much money I have in my bank account from my SSN or driver’s license? If that’s the case then why do I have to report it every time I fill out the FAFSA? Police have to have a warrant to subpoena my bank account records. You do know the US has a Fourth Amendment right?
The government most certainly does know the amount of money in our bank accounts using our SSN’s, but I can’t find it using Google. Anyway, the NSA has to have access to this information.
How does the government know why kind of car I drive from my SSN and driver’s license? That information isn’t listed on my driver’s license or SSN. It’s listed on my registration.
Through insurance policies.
How does the government know my purchasing data from my driver’s license or SSN? I don’t use those things to purchase stuff with. I use cash and my debit card. Again, the police would have to have a warrant to subpoena my bank records. There’s that pesky Fourth Amendment again.
National security trumps Fourth Amendment rights. SSN’s are attached to credit and debit card data.
The only think you got right was my place of residence. Yes, my driver’s license and SSN have that information. But so what, I don’t care that the government knows where I live. I care if they bust in my house without a warrant and start looking around.
I once lived in an apartment building where a husband and wife lived who were always fighting intensely. Anyway, the man had a gun, and everyone feared that he could easily use it to kill his wife. One day the police came when he and his wife were out, busted the door down, and took the gun!!! I was so impressed with the action of the police! Way to go to prevent a likely homicide! (I’m not sure if they had some kind of a warrant.)
My point was that the government can not actively track you with your SSN and driver’s license like they could with what you are proposing.
OK.
The government has no idea where I am right now, at this very moment. And that’s the way I like it. And, until we change the Constitution, that’s the way it’s going to stay.
Do you carry a cell phone?
 
Again, I was in no way suggesting that SSN’s and driver licenses could track us, but that they are an invasion of privacy in that they are often used to keep track of people.
With the context of this thread being centered around tracking I speculate you may continue to receive messages on how government issued ids don’t track. Also another difference between those and what you are suggesting with cars: Social security cards were not mandatory when they were first issued. It was a system you could opt into and there is a perceived incentive for doing so. By contrast for vehicles you are suggesting that cars have mandatory tracking with no personal incentive attached with a lot of perceived disadvantages. That’s not a very good sales pitch. So a lot of people are not getting sold on the idea.
 
How does the government know how much money I have in my bank account from my SSN or driver’s license? If that’s the case then why do I have to report it every time I fill out the FAFSA? Police have to have a warrant to subpoena my bank account records. You do know the US has a Fourth Amendment right?

How does the government know why kind of car I drive from my SSN and driver’s license? That information isn’t listed on my driver’s license or SSN. It’s listed on my registration.

How does the government know my purchasing data from my driver’s license or SSN? I don’t use those things to purchase stuff with. I use cash and my debit card. Again, the police would have to have a warrant to subpoena my bank records. There’s that pesky Fourth Amendment again.

The only think you got right was my place of residence. Yes, my driver’s license and SSN have that information. But so what, I don’t care that the government knows where I live. I care if they bust in my house without a warrant and start looking around.

My point was that the government can not actively track you with your SSN and driver’s license like they could with what you are proposing.

The government has no idea where I am right now, at this very moment. And that’s the way I like it. And, until we change the Constitution, that’s the way it’s going to stay.
I agree with you philosophically.

Having said that, you’d better believe that the government has the vehicle registration databases and the driver’s license databases linked. If a cop runs your license plates, he is going to know almost instantly who the registered owner of the vehicle is, whether the owner has any outstanding warrants, and so on.

Likewise, police have and do track the whereabouts of a suspect by looking at the credit card purchases the suspect performs. If you are on the run and make a completely legitimate withdrawal from an ATM or use your credit card to buy gas, you’d better believe that the police will instantly know that and will be able to trace your approximate whereabouts.

If they have the ability to immediately do so with a suspect, the only thing preventing them from doing so with any citizen is a moral impediment (in other words, they know they aren’t supposed to do so…and therefore won’t). A moral impediment can easily be overcome by an unscrupulous official.

When you fill out a FAFSA, it would be very reasonable to assume that they run credit checks on you (and, if you are such that your parents’ income is a factor, your parents). They will instantly know your credit history and what open accounts you have.

As far as the so-called privacy of your electronic communications, you should check out the NSA’s new Utah Data Center. It will eventually have the ability to store yottabytes of data (a yottabyte is 10^24 bytes; according to estimates from Cisco, the sum total amount of Internet traffic in 2013 was approximately 18 exabytes (18 X 10^18 bytes). So if you think your communications are confidential – don’t fool yourself; they aren’t.

And as I say, the only thing that precludes the authorities from using all of this capability is a moral inhibition.

Welcome to the brave new world.
 
I see a strong trend for people to be valuing individual liberties over LOVE! I value LOVE way more than my civil liberties, and I strongly believe that this is Christlike. Tracking devices on cars can save lives and promote criminal justice, which I consider to reflect LOVE!

LOVE brother and sisters! 🙂
 
I see a strong trend for people to be valuing individual liberties over LOVE! I value LOVE way more than my civil liberties, and I strongly believe that this is Christlike. Tracking devices on cars can save lives and promote criminal justice, which I consider to reflect LOVE!

LOVE brother and sisters! 🙂
I happen to LOVE liberty.
 
Those who love their neighbors must also love liberty, because without liberty, it is impossible to exercise love of one’s neighbor. If you claim to love your neighbor, but you do not love liberty, then your claimed love of your neighbor is suspect.
Do you have a source from the Bible that teaches love of liberty? I can find plenty of sources/commands that we are bound to love our neighbor!

The greatest liberty of all is the right to learn of, and experience, Christian LOVE!
 
:okpeople: No, no, no!

I don’t like anyone tracking anything about me. My wife says it’s futile and to give up worrying about it (computer usage, credit cards, etc.). But I can’t let it go.

I don’t like governments tracking me, I don’t like corporations tracking me. It took me a long time to regularly carry my cell phone so my wife could track me.

I don’t like it when people make assumptions about me, my likes, my dislikes, my preferences, etc. I don’t like it when people do it, I don’t like it when computer algorithms do it. I certainly don’t want the government to do it.

I don’t want car manufacturers to do it. Or auto insurers. Or law enforcement.

I’ll take my chances without their help.

:dts:
 
That’s a very good question why would they need it…since we are all innocent until proven guilty?
Since we’re all guilty through Original Sin and receive redemption through Baptism, maybe there could be a government equivalent. Everyone has a tracker in his car until he performs some sort of rite of transportational reconciliation. 😃
 
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’” (Matthew 22:37-39). Many have understood this second commandment as including a command to love ourselves. However, this is a misreading of what it actually says. We are not commanded to love our neighbour and ourselves, but as ourselves. In other words, the statement naturally assumes that we have a certain desire for our own wellbeing, and the command is to have an equal concern for the wellbeing of others. Self-love is not a virtue that Scripture commends, but one of the facts of our humanity that it recognises and tells us to use as a standard.
christianity.co.nz/esteem3.htm
 
Do you have a source from the Bible that teaches love of liberty? I can find plenty of sources/commands that we are bound to love our neighbor!

The greatest liberty of all is the right to learn of, and experience, Christian LOVE!
[bibledrb]Luke 4:18-19[/bibledrb]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 9:1[/BIBLEDRB]
[bibledrb]Gal 5:13[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]James 1:25[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]James 2:12[/bibledrb]
 
OK, I agree that certain forms of liberty are important, but that there are other forms of liberty that conflicts with LOVE, such as when we view the right of collection of goods as being a higher value than the alleviation of poverty. As long as it does not directly or indirectly interfere with the wellbeing of others (or other values of great importance), I have no problem with maximizing liberty. Your source of Galatians gets at this point.

Gal 5:13 (Douay Rheims)
13 For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty: only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh, but by charity of the spirit serve one another.

As for the mandatory use of a tracking device, I view its benefits as a higher value than the value of the individual’s right of privacy.

LOVE! 🙂
 
Sure, sure…😉

I’ve got a good one! Government mandated food consumption. If we LOVE our neighbor, we will make sure he stays healthy and on a good diet… Proportion control is an extention of the virtue prudence! It ensures less waste and that everyone gets an equal share. 😉

Love your neighbor!

(You’d only disapprove of this if you’re an over eater or on a bad diet. :cool:). (;))
 
Sure, sure…😉

I’ve got a good one! Government mandated food consumption. If we LOVE our neighbor, we will make sure he stays healthy and on a good diet… Proportion control is an extention of the virtue prudence! It ensures less waste and that everyone gets an equal share. 😉

Love your neighbor!

(You’d only disapprove of this if you’re an over eater or on a bad diet. :cool:). (;))
👍 👍 LOVE is the key!
 
Oh, I know… Mandatory blood donations! 😃

…yes, since we’re all one in humanity, our blood is a shared resource too. We must give!
 
OK, I agree that certain forms of liberty are important, but that there are other forms of liberty that conflicts with LOVE, such as when we view the right of collection of goods as being a higher value than the alleviation of poverty. As long as it does not directly or indirectly interfere with the wellbeing of others (or other values of great importance), I have no problem with maximizing liberty. Your source of Galatians gets at this point.Gal 5:13 (Douay Rheims)
13 For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty: only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh, but by charity of the spirit serve one another.As for the mandatory use of a tracking device, I view its benefits as a higher value than the value of the individual’s right of privacy.

LOVE! 🙂
You may not understand this, but people can and are owned as much by their material possessions as they own them. I’m not talking about the 1%er out there, I’m talking about ordinary folks.

Look at it: you have a house → you must have a source of income to pay for the mortgage (if you have one), the maintenance, the electricity, the water, the gas, the taxes, etc., that are all associated with that house.

You have a car → you must have a source of income to pay for the gas and maintenance and insurance and tags for that car.

You have stuff → you must have a place to keep that stuff (clothes, food, computer, cell phone, etc.) so that it doesn’t get damaged by weather, eaten by vermin, or stolen. Chances are, that place to store your stuff is your home. But even a homeless person who has stuff has to protect that stuff from damage…even if that is a shopping cart and a trash bag. And just try to separate a homeless person from his shopping cart.

All of that stuff impedes your ability to be totally free, as it ties you down to one degree or another. The more stuff…the more support your stuff needs. And the bigger your requirements.

Then that locks you into a job where you are an indentured servant (e.g., a slave) of your boss or into running your own business where you place yourself in servitude to your customers.

As a free person, though, I still have the liberty to tell my boss to “take this job and shove it” (to quote the famous old David Allen Coe song). If I own my own business, I still have the right to tell a customer that I won’t do business with him. Now, there would be consequences to those decisions…but it’s my choice to do so.

In a socialist world, I would no longer have that right. In a socialist world, the government provides my dwelling, the government provides my food, and the government provides my stuff (including the clothes on my back). And I have lost the ability to say “no, thanks…I think I want to go to Africa for a few years to work with the destitute there” I no longer can say, “the weather in DC stinks…I think I’ll move to Dallas.” Or…“no thanks, I think I’d prefer to just drop out.”

To repeat, I am not talking about the Bill Gates’ or the Warren Buffets of the world. I’m just talking about ordinary folks.

And, unless there is reasonable cause to suspect I’ve committed by a crime, as validated by a court, the government does NOT have the right to track me, profile me, or do anything to me other than leave me the heck alone.

Just something to think about, Robert.
 
I don’t like anyone tracking anything about me. My wife says it’s futile and to give up worrying about it (computer usage, credit cards, etc.). But I can’t let it go.
Wear sunglasses. Some of the facial recognition algorithms can’t get enough information to recognize some one when they can’t see your eyes.

Now back to work. I am figuring out how to use these Bluetooth low energy beacons to detect some one’s arrival, departure, and dwell times.
 
Oh, I know… Mandatory blood donations! 😃

…yes, since we’re all one in humanity, our blood is a shared resource too. We must give!
And while we’re at it, let’s keep everyone’s DNA on file just in case. :rolleyes:
 
Mandatory tracking devices could help a lot in law enforcement, but could go against one’s rights. Personally, I would strongly support such a law. We need better cooperation between the good of society and individual rights!

(LOVE, brothers and sisters!)
Perhaps we could just implant a chip in everyone and skip this step. It would really help law enforcement to know where everyone one is at every moment of the day and with whom you are associating. Heck–maybe that chip could just transmit all that data to the NSA daily–think of all the money the government would save if it did not have to employ all those criminals breaking into and monitoring peoples private interactions. Just think how safe we’d be–safe from what I wonder but in grave danger from our government.

Yes we need a balance between individual rights and the good of society – something we had a pretty good balance on until 40 or 50 years ago, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here. What good is knowing where my car is–if my wife can divorce me for no good reason, take my kids and force me to pay alimony? What good is knowing where my car is if the fabric of our society, its underpinnings, its very foundations are being uprooted and replaced? How is knowing where my car is good for society as a whole–it seems it’s only really good for me if my car happens to get stolen–or I forget which floor of the parking garge I parked on.

Peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top