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JanetF
Guest
Then we are at an impasse and I will refrain from further discussion since we aren’t approaching this in the same way at all.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
I believe there is a big difference in attending a wedding and hanging out with homosexuals.Do you, or anyone else objecting to supporting gay people also treat your non-married, but living together friends the same way?
Do you go out with them and their S.O.? Do you attend their birthday parties and other events? Would you attend a baby shower, even if they were not married?
Do you shun people you know who have been convicted of crimes?
Sin is sin. Many of you may be OK with shunning people or ending relationships over issues that revolve around homosexuality, but seem to be OK with other things.
And then try to claim it’s what Jesus would want?
Really?!
I have several gay friends. We go to parties together. As you have said, Jesus “hung out” with all kinds of sinners…probably including gays. But I don’t think Jesus would have gone to a gay wedding. There is a distinction b/c a wedding and other social activities
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CilladeRoma
Guest
I would never dare to contemplate what Jesus might or might not do.
He told me to love my neighbor as myself. I will do that.
If I did it wrong, I am sure he will let me know when the time comes.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
I guess all I can say is good luck with that logic.
There is a huge difference in a marriage and going to dinner.
And your last sentence is pretty troubling honestly.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
OK fair enough, how about the fathers of the church or the saints?CatholicSooner:
I would never dare to contemplate what Jesus might or might not do.
He told me to love my neighbor as myself. I will do that.
If I did it wrong, I am sure he will let me know when the time comes.
Would they have gone to a gay wedding?
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Why? The state has gotten involved in the marriage game. It’s not a good thing.
Marriage is a Sacrament, not a civil construct. In many places, if one has a Catholic wedding, they must also have a “state wedding”. In the US, the Church can act as an agent of the State. I don’t think that should be allowed either, but that is a different thread.
Marriage is a Sacrament, not a civil construct. In many places, if one has a Catholic wedding, they must also have a “state wedding”. In the US, the Church can act as an agent of the State. I don’t think that should be allowed either, but that is a different thread.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Again, I will not presume what anyone else may or may not do.
Jesus called us to love one another and also told us the measure with which we measure will come back on us 10-fold. I believe him, so I will always err on the side of love.
Jesus called us to love one another and also told us the measure with which we measure will come back on us 10-fold. I believe him, so I will always err on the side of love.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
and attending a wedding that results in sin is love?
Seems like St. Paul talks about this quite a bit.
Supporting this behavior is not love or charity. It is the opposite. It is damaging for the people you are supporting but more so to yourself.
Humanly love is not what Jesus was referencing IMO. If that was the case, we would have no suffering.
Seems like St. Paul talks about this quite a bit.
Supporting this behavior is not love or charity. It is the opposite. It is damaging for the people you are supporting but more so to yourself.
Humanly love is not what Jesus was referencing IMO. If that was the case, we would have no suffering.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Apples & oranges.
I am not the parent, pastor or spiritual director of my friends.
I am called to love, period. It is not my job to correct them, especially when they do not believe they need correcting.
I am not the parent, pastor or spiritual director of my friends.
I am called to love, period. It is not my job to correct them, especially when they do not believe they need correcting.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
It is not my place to correct adult, non-Catholics. I have no authority over them.
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JanetF
Guest
He called us to love one another as HE HAS LOVED US. Which was with the corrective guidance of a parent. “Go and sin no more”.
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Elf01
Guest
I see them as different. I would see attending an invalid wedding as supporting a sin. I wouldn’t see attending a birthday party or going to theirs as supporting a sin.
My general rule of thumb would be invite them as a couple if all it would take to rectify the relationship is a wedding in the Church. If I knew both members of a gay or divorced and remarried couple from outside the relationship context I would invite them as individuals.
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JMMJ
Guest
There is no enabling. She is just witnessing an event. Enabling would mean she would be contributing actions that would create an opportunity for the couple to marry. They are going to marry with or without her. Her attendance doesn’t change a thing, as far as their ability to marry goes.
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Delphinus
Guest
I like this post. I never thought of it that way.
I admit this hasn’t come up for me yet, but at the end of the day I think I’d have to refuse to go to a wedding of a same-sex couple. It’s a celebration of a specific event (the “marriage”) and it’s not something I would celebrate or give my stamp of “celebratory” to. It would also make me very uncomfortable for a great many personal AND religious reasons. Then there is respect for my friends. I would be an awkward, uncomfortable wall-flower at that event and going would cause more damage to the relationship than staying home since I’d likely drag down the happiness of the event for others by being awkward and distant. I have friends who are gay, non-Catholics, atheists, etc, etc, and we have very VERY healthy relationships. They didn’t come to my son’s baptism. It made them uncomfortable. This did not negatively impact the relationship on my end, and increased it on theirs specifically because they saw that I respected and honored that part of them too and did not treat them any differently for it. If one of them was marrying someone of the same sex, they know I, likewise, would not attend. Healthy boundaries and respecting differences is the key of any relationship. We are all great friends, enjoy one another, and are close even if we don’t share everything.
I admit this hasn’t come up for me yet, but at the end of the day I think I’d have to refuse to go to a wedding of a same-sex couple. It’s a celebration of a specific event (the “marriage”) and it’s not something I would celebrate or give my stamp of “celebratory” to. It would also make me very uncomfortable for a great many personal AND religious reasons. Then there is respect for my friends. I would be an awkward, uncomfortable wall-flower at that event and going would cause more damage to the relationship than staying home since I’d likely drag down the happiness of the event for others by being awkward and distant. I have friends who are gay, non-Catholics, atheists, etc, etc, and we have very VERY healthy relationships. They didn’t come to my son’s baptism. It made them uncomfortable. This did not negatively impact the relationship on my end, and increased it on theirs specifically because they saw that I respected and honored that part of them too and did not treat them any differently for it. If one of them was marrying someone of the same sex, they know I, likewise, would not attend. Healthy boundaries and respecting differences is the key of any relationship. We are all great friends, enjoy one another, and are close even if we don’t share everything.
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LisaB
Guest
Suppose your friend successfully smuggles $100k worth of cocaine across the border and has a party to celebrate. Would you attend? If not, why not?
Before you say it’s apples and oranges, how so? In both cases the act is immoral. The fact that one of them is legal has no bearing on morality. Maybe you were good friends with this person before he decided to make some bad choices. You support him as a friend and a person. Would going to a party to celebrate the “success” of this operation be the same as attending his birthday party? After all, you are just supporting the person, not his sin.
Before you say it’s apples and oranges, how so? In both cases the act is immoral. The fact that one of them is legal has no bearing on morality. Maybe you were good friends with this person before he decided to make some bad choices. You support him as a friend and a person. Would going to a party to celebrate the “success” of this operation be the same as attending his birthday party? After all, you are just supporting the person, not his sin.
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thistle
Guest
Do you, or anyone else objecting to supporting gay people also treat your non-married, but living together friends the same way?
Do you go out with them and their S.O.? Do you attend their birthday parties and other events? Would you attend a baby shower, even if they were not married?
Do you shun people you know who have been convicted of crimes?
Sin is sin. Many of you may be OK with shunning people or ending relationships over issues that revolve around homosexuality, but seem to be OK with other things.
And then try to claim it’s what Jesus would want?
Really?!
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Although bridal showers are not weddings, they support those who are preparing for marriage or, in the case of a same-sex couple, for example, invalidly attempt...
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Thorolfr
Guest
[/quote]
You’re free to comment on what someone says and perhaps shorten it a little to highlight a particular part, but it’s really kind of obnoxious to edit people’s posts to make them say things in a way that they would never say them. And I have no idea what makes up an “alternative lifestyle” anyway. I wouldn’t think that who someone has sex with is enough by itself to constitute a “lifestyle”.
You’re free to comment on what someone says and perhaps shorten it a little to highlight a particular part, but it’s really kind of obnoxious to edit people’s posts to make them say things in a way that they would never say them. And I have no idea what makes up an “alternative lifestyle” anyway. I wouldn’t think that who someone has sex with is enough by itself to constitute a “lifestyle”.
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Delphinus
Guest
Well, they’re my friends so I won’t go into detail here, but they have personal reasons why going to a religious service makes them uncomfortable that are completely and wholly unrelated to faith matters. It’s not my place to judge that. But in being their friend and showing them love and respecting their boundaries, it’s helping them see religion in a different light than how they were raised/treated earlier in life.
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Thorolfr
Guest
It’s also unfair to force someone to use words that they don’t believe in, like that four letter abbreviation that the alternative lifestyle community has decided is the term that everyone else is obliged to use to refer to them with (which doesn’t make sense, because that’s not usually how new communities get names.
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You’re not obliged to use any terminology that you don’t want to in your reply. But there is a feature which you already use to indicate that you’re quoting someone else. So you’re not being forced to use any words that you don’t believe in since they aren’t your words. How would you like it if I edited all your posts that I reply to and made them say something different than what you said?
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You’re not obliged to use any terminology that you don’t want to in your reply. But there is a feature which you already use to indicate that you’re quoting someone else. So you’re not being forced to use any words that you don’t believe in since they aren’t your words. How would you like it if I edited all your posts that I reply to and made them say something different than what you said?
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Thorolfr
Guest
I didn’t change the meaning of what you said. In fact, when an unacceptable (to me) term is used, and I can’t just skip the sentence and replace it with “[…]”, I will put a question mark before and after the words that I replace it with (as has been seen already in this thread), to indicate that I am not certain that this is what the person is saying, but that this is my best guess.
Also, again, I put brackets there. That is a well-known practice in writing that is often used to make quotations have context if they do not provide it by themselves, or to make the quotation fit into the sentence that it is being dropped into the middle of. It is almost always used in a way that keeps the meaning of the quotation intact.
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Brackets are usually used to add or clarify information, not to change it and they would usually be placed after the word or phrase that you want to clarify, not by removing the word or phrase and replacing it with your preferred way of saying it. I’ve never seen that before. I used to teach at a university, and if one of my students did that on a paper I was grading, I’d lower his grade because of it.
Also, again, I put brackets there. That is a well-known practice in writing that is often used to make quotations have context if they do not provide it by themselves, or to make the quotation fit into the sentence that it is being dropped into the middle of. It is almost always used in a way that keeps the meaning of the quotation intact.
[/quote]
Brackets are usually used to add or clarify information, not to change it and they would usually be placed after the word or phrase that you want to clarify, not by removing the word or phrase and replacing it with your preferred way of saying it. I’ve never seen that before. I used to teach at a university, and if one of my students did that on a paper I was grading, I’d lower his grade because of it.
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