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phil19034
Guest
God doesn’t activate them. God also may not have deployed Adam & Eve with them. They may have developed sometime after the Fall
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JUPITERMADCAT
Guest
That’s a big if.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
I’d like to add that our conscience can be very wrong. and so can our common sense.
Our conscience is not God’s will
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lilypadrees
Guest
God is my conscience. I always ask His Will be done and that He guide my decisions. If I make a decision that goes against His Will, I am convicted of it immediately.
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Nigel7
Guest
By supporting their lifestyle and attending their gay so-called “weddings” then you are supporting their grave sin. You give your signature of approval to their further deviation and corruption.
It is a-okay to simply decline an invitation to a same-sex “wedding” and to not recognize their fake marriage with any gift.
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
- Romans, ch 1
It is a-okay to simply decline an invitation to a same-sex “wedding” and to not recognize their fake marriage with any gift.
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
- Romans, ch 1
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CilladeRoma
Guest
I am supporting people whom I love.
As I said, most of them are not Catholic, so my “rules” mean nothing to them.
Whereas, shunning them because "I won’t support their ‘grave sin’ does nothing but reinforce their perception that Christians hate gays.
As I said, most of them are not Catholic, so my “rules” mean nothing to them.
Whereas, shunning them because "I won’t support their ‘grave sin’ does nothing but reinforce their perception that Christians hate gays.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
That is great.CatholicSooner:
God is my conscience. I always ask His Will be done and that He guide my decisions. If I make a decision that goes against His Will, I am convicted of it immediately.
I’m worried about those that base their moral decisions on their conscience and they think their conscience and natural inclinations (their gut feel) are always right
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CatholicSooner
Guest
It is a tough situation.
IMO, by going, you are creating scandal. If people know you are Catholic, and they see you attending it causes scandal.
If you really think that by you not attending you are saying that you hate gays, then maybe you need to have a conversation with the couple on why you are not attending.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
When you become my priest/confessor, I will take your advice.
I am creating no scandal. I am loving people, who ARE NOT CATHOLIC, and meeting them where they are.
My “shunning” them would do more harm than good.
I am sorry that so many here cannot see that.
I am creating no scandal. I am loving people, who ARE NOT CATHOLIC, and meeting them where they are.
My “shunning” them would do more harm than good.
I am sorry that so many here cannot see that.
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CatholicSooner
Guest
I’m not trying to tell you what to do. It is a tough situation and I use to think the same way as you do. But as some point you have to do what is right for your soul and for your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Seeing a devout Catholic attending gay weddings does create scandal. It may lead other Catholics AND non Catholics to believe that it is an OK thing to do.
I don’t really care for the response of they are not Catholic. That is a very relativistic approach.
Just b/c one is not Catholic doesn’t mean that what they are doing is OK. They may not realize that it isn’t OK b/c they aren’t Catholic, but there are absolute truths that are present regardless of our personal beliefs.
And again, you don’t have to shun anyone. It is possible to charitably decline an invitation.
And in the grand scheme of things, how would you not going harm them?
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JanetF
Guest
They may not be catholic but they still have immortal souls. Those souls are in danger. Your “support” of their choices is not loving. Loving them would be gently explaining that you cannot attend their ceremony, because attendance equals acceptance, and Catholics cannot accept the concept of gay marriage without risking their souls. It does cause scandal, if another catholic makes the choice not to go, but knows that you are going, questions their correct instinct not to go. We do not live in bubbles. Our actions have consequences. Our actions are seen by others and sometimes others mimic our actions thinking we are correct.
It may seem unloving or a hard line to toe, but it is in fact what we are taught. Jesus may have hung out with sinners, but he also told them to go and sin no more.
It may seem unloving or a hard line to toe, but it is in fact what we are taught. Jesus may have hung out with sinners, but he also told them to go and sin no more.
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Weserthy
Guest
You are supporting sin. What you say you support is irrelevant. By attending these ceremonies you are lending your support to a relationship founded on sin and declaring your support for fornication. That is not love or “meeting them where they are”. That is simply affirming their decision to sin and to flaunt it to the world. It is a sin even if they are not Catholic (though culpability may be lessened).
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Do you, or anyone else objecting to supporting gay people also treat your non-married, but living together friends the same way?
Do you go out with them and their S.O.? Do you attend their birthday parties and other events? Would you attend a baby shower, even if they were not married?
Do you shun people you know who have been convicted of crimes?
Sin is sin. Many of you may be OK with shunning people or ending relationships over issues that revolve around homosexuality, but seem to be OK with other things.
And then try to claim it’s what Jesus would want?
Really?!
Do you go out with them and their S.O.? Do you attend their birthday parties and other events? Would you attend a baby shower, even if they were not married?
Do you shun people you know who have been convicted of crimes?
Sin is sin. Many of you may be OK with shunning people or ending relationships over issues that revolve around homosexuality, but seem to be OK with other things.
And then try to claim it’s what Jesus would want?
Really?!
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
What about the scandal of people thinking that people who are LGBTQ are excluded from the church. There are many who mistakenly believe that. They and their family and friends leave Catholicism behind or never give it a chance of they are non-Catholic. That gay couple may not be Catholic but they have friends gay and straight that are and you won’t be there to explain. The church could have created a place for them so if marriage wasn’t an option, as a vocation, as a way to build family, there was family and community. The gay men that became priests because it gave them a respectable vocation, shows that there was a need. This forum has a number of people who hold views that are more strident than church teaching; they aren’t helping to create community for their LGBTQ family and friends, and lurkers who visit the forum see this and that, too, convinces people that the Catholic church rejects gays, or that it teaches that being gay is a sin.
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AngelusDomini
Guest
Well that’s really going to win them over.
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tseleehw
Guest
Why do you support fornication and homosexuality? If you disagree with the Church’s teachings on homosexuality, fornication, and sexual morality, then just come out and say so.Do you, or anyone else objecting to supporting gay people also treat your non-married, but living together friends the same way?
Do you go out with them and their S.O.? Do you attend their birthday parties and other events? Would you attend a baby shower, even if they were not married?
Do you shun people you know who have been convicted of crimes?
Sin is sin. Many of you may be OK with shunning people or ending relationships over issues that revolve around homosexuality, but seem to be OK with other things.
And then try to claim it’s what Jesus would want?
Really?!
We must stand firm against those who would follow Satan rather than Christ in choosing to enter into a so-called “gay marriage”.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this entire issue it’s to ignore pretty much everything my fellow Catholics say and just do what seems Christlike to me.
Seems to be working out well.
Will now mute this thread.
Seems to be working out well.
Will now mute this thread.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
I support human beings who happen to be gay or who happen to think that sex outside of marriage is OK.
Big difference, and again, for those of you who can’t see it, you are part of the problem.
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JanetF
Guest
There’s a difference between socializing with sinners (going out to dinner with an unmarried couple who live together), and going to an event that celebrates the sin (gay marriage). Surely you can see that?
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CilladeRoma
Guest
No, I do not see any differrence.
Just like I see no difference in going to a civil marriage of friends who may or may not be religious.
If their union is going to allow them the same rights and privileges for insurance, medical decision making, rights to survivorship, etc, I am all for it.
My friends know what my religious objections to the use of the word “marriage” are.
Even the ones who are not gay, but on their 3rd & 4th marriages.
I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman for life. You will be hard pressed to find many people in the US today, even Catholics, who actually believe that. And as long as the “state” is involved in marriage, we cannot discriminate.
Just like I see no difference in going to a civil marriage of friends who may or may not be religious.
If their union is going to allow them the same rights and privileges for insurance, medical decision making, rights to survivorship, etc, I am all for it.
My friends know what my religious objections to the use of the word “marriage” are.
Even the ones who are not gay, but on their 3rd & 4th marriages.
I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman for life. You will be hard pressed to find many people in the US today, even Catholics, who actually believe that. And as long as the “state” is involved in marriage, we cannot discriminate.
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