WSJ: Cohen paid porn star through private LLC created just weeks before election

[niceatheist]

I’m unaware of any Christian Church where denial of si (however any individual church defines sin) demonstrates repentance.

 

[stinkcat_14]

And you’re reasonably sure St. Augustine, having once repented, never sinned again? Let’s see, how does that go “…even the just man falls seven times a day…” ? Isn’t that how it goes?

While he may certainly have sinned again, the evidence suggests that he was repentant about his sins. We don’t know that he committed grave sins after his conversion.

You don’t know, of course, how proud or ashamed (or neither) Trump is for his sins or ever was for any of them. I am, however, reminded again of a statement made by a historian (I believe it was Kenneth Clark). He remarked that, as compared to people of the High Middle Ages or Renaissance, moderns “…neither sin well nor repent well…”

He certainly has a track record bragging about committing grave sins.

We don’t admit that our sins are sins and therefore don’t see a need for repentance. And even when we do, we’re halfway about it.

I am sorry to hear you struggle with that.

I think for people of this age to judge someone like Trump morally unfit generally, the height of mendacity is required as regards our own sins.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

 

[ConstantLearner]

We don’t admit that our sins are sins and therefore don’t see a need for repentance. And even when we do, we’re halfway about it.

I admit my sins are sins and nothing else. I’m not an immoral or truly bad person, but I’m not perfect, either, and I know my shortcomings, mistakes, and yes, sins.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but I respectfully disagree. I think Catholics go to confession because they are aware of their sins and acknowledge them as such.

 

[F_Marturana]

I really dislike the comparison of St Augustine, or King David etc to Trump.

1. St Augustine is a Saint, and repented from sin. He wrote about his sins and repented.
2. What’s so special about Trump, that couldn’t apply to Hillary, or Bernie sanders, or Joe Biden? If I can compare Trump to King David, I surely can compare Bill Clinton to him.

It can’t be “Oh no There isn’t enough proof he paid off a porm actress, but if he did he’s St. Augustine.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

We don’t admit that our sins are sins and therefore don’t see a need for repentance. And even when we do, we’re halfway about it.

I am sorry to hear you struggle with that.

Ha! What priggishness! One is reminded of a pouter pigeon who strides along the top of a building wall judging all, then when challenged to reflect on the vulnerabilities of all, can only cluck a feigned pity at the weaknesses of lesser beings.

Kenneth Clark’s assessment, confirmed for us right here on CAF in January of the Year of Our Lord 2018.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think Catholics go to confession because they are aware of their sins and acknowledge them as such.

How long are the confessional lines in your parish?

 

[stinkcat_14]

Ha! What priggishness! One is reminded of a pouter pigeon who strides along the top of a building wall judging all, then when challenged to reflect on the vulnerabilities of all, can only cluck a feigned pity at the weaknesses of lesser beings.

Kenneth Clark’s assessment, confirmed for us right here on CAF in January of the Year of Our Lord 2018.

I get it, you will jump through hoops to support your boy. I will admit I admire the lengths you will go to in order to support your boy. But he is not my boy and like I have said before character matters. And that is important whether one is a democrat or a republican.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I really dislike the comparison of St Augustine, or King David etc to Trump.

St Augustine is a Saint, and repented from sin. He wrote about his sins and repented.

What’s so special about Trump, that couldn’t apply to Hillary, or Bernie sanders, or Joe Biden? If I can compare Trump to King David, I surely can compare Bill Clinton to him.

It can’t be “Oh no There isn’t enough proof he paid off a porm actress, but if he did he’s St. Augustine.”

I really think you’re missing it here.

I don’t know that anyone is defending Trump’s sexual mores, whatever they may be in actuality. I certainly am not.

What I do appreciate about him is his evident reversal of the former administration’s oppression of the Catholic Church and its policy of promoting abortion worldwide. Those are not small things. If Trump is at least neutral when it comes to the Church, I’m grateful to him for that.

 

[ConstantLearner]

How long are the confessional lines in your parish?

Never measured them, but very long.

 

[Road-Worrier]

I don’t know that anyone is defending Trump’s sexual mores, whatever they may be in actuality. I certainly am not.

What I do appreciate about him is his evident reversal of the former administration’s oppression of the Catholic Church and its policy of promoting abortion worldwide. Those are not small things. If Trump is at least neutral when it comes to the Church, I’m grateful to him for that.

Speaking for myself, I think as a Trump supporter, I’m far more willing to acknowledge his flaws than any Trump opponent is to acknowledge his virtues. I find this surprising on a Catholic forum because, despite his personal flaws, he has really done some good stuff towards in protecting conscious rights of Catholics to not engage in activities that violate Catholic teaching. He’s also appointed some good judges that make it possible to consider a future overturn of Roe v Wade to at least put abortion back in the hands of the citizens. I’m not foolish enough to think we can outlaw all abortions, but under Roe even reasonable restrictions are all but impossible.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I get it, you will jump through hoops to support your boy. I will admit I admire the lengths you will go to in order to support your boy. But he is not my boy and like I have said before character matters. And that is important whether one is a democrat or a republican.

Trump is not “my boy”. But I will certainly defend him when I think it’s warranted.

Character is an interesting thing, and it can manifest itself in many ways; some obvious, some more subtle. But always, the public image is always less indicative than what an individual actually does. Trump has indisputably divorced and remarried. Some say he bragged about affairs, (real ones, not just talk) and perhaps he did.

But as between that and the cold-blooded killing of innocent children here and abroad, there is no comparison at all. Never in my lifetime will I forget Obama’s defense of his abortion policy by saying if one of his daughters had an unwanted pregnancy, he would not want her “burdened with a baby”.

And so his remedy? Kill the child. How could his soul have been sufficiently cold that his first thought was not “I’ll raise the child myself if it comes to that, and happy to do it”?

And here we are on a Catholic site, pretending to be morally outraged that a mainline protestant has not manifested to us the morals of a traditionalist Catholic, when he has not only done nothing at all to oppress the Church or its members, but has gone out of his way to relieve the oppression imposed by his supposedly morally superior predecessor.

 

[stinkcat_14]

But as between that and the cold-blooded killing of innocent children here and abroad, there is no comparison at all. Never in my lifetime will I forget Obama’s defense of his abortion policy by saying if one of his daughters had an unwanted pregnancy, he would not want her “burdened with a baby”.

This really has nothing to do with anything. This issue is morality, not whether someone else is immoral. Morality is not relative. If Donald does something immoral, he is worthy of criticism for it, regardless of whether there is some alleged worse sinner out there.

And here we are on a Catholic site, pretending to be morally outraged that a mainline protestant has not manifested to us the morals of a traditionalist Catholic, when he has not only done nothing at all to oppress the Church or its members, but has gone out of his way to relieve the oppression imposed by his supposedly morally superior predecessor.

His morals are not up to Catholic teaching, not traditionalist Catholic teaching. Catholic teaching plain and simple. It is not charitable to confirm someone in their sin. If someone sins, we have an obligation to point it out to them, not ignore it.

 

[F_Marturana]

Abortion and promiscuity are not at all related?

What would have happened if miss Stormy got pregnant?

 

[ConstantLearner]

And here we are on a Catholic site, pretending to be morally outraged that a mainline protestant has not manifested to us the morals of a traditionalist Catholic, when he has not only done nothing at all to oppress the Church or its members, but has gone out of his way to relieve the oppression imposed by his supposedly morally superior predecessor.

We’re discussing Trump’s morals because he’s our president and the supposed leader of the free world. His morals are of the utmost importance.

As Stinkcat said above, morality is not relative.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This really has nothing to do with anything. This issue is morality, not whether someone else is immoral. Morality is not relative. If Donald does something immoral, he is worthy of criticism for it, regardless of whether there is some alleged worse sinner out there.

But there is immorality and immorality. It is not for nothing that Dante put the lustful in the second circle of hell, and the betrayers of kin in the ninth.

But if Trump is or has been sexually immoral, what does that have to do with whether I should be grateful or ungrateful that he undid WOTUS or the imposition of the abortifacient mandate on the Little Sisters?

Have we really now become such puritans that we judge good governance by whether a man has always kept it in his pants, or is said by his enemies not to have done it? Or do we pay attention to what has actually happened?

And nobody’s morals are up to Catholic teaching. Even Pope FRancis admitted his aren’t. So write President trump and tell him his morals are not up to your standards. Send one to the Pope too, while you’re at it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

We’re discussing Trump’s morals because he’s our president and the supposed leader of the free world. His morals are of the utmost importance.

So prove his last immoral act and tell us why it was immoral.

As between an adulterer (if that’s what he has been) and a killer of children, I’ll prefer the former every day. Morality is not relative, but there is a difference between discreet immoral acts of an individual and imposition of immoral policies on a whole world. How can you possibly defend being a Democrat?

 

[Road-Worrier]

We’re discussing Trump’s morals because he’s our president and the supposed leader of the free world. His morals are of the utmost importance.

Many great leaders have had questionable morals and many mediocre leaders have had impeccable morals. FDR, for example, most people would agree was a great leader of the US, but he was not a very moral man. He lied about his disability. He had adulterous affairs. But would anybody trade him in for Herbert Hoover, Wendell Wilkie, or Thomas Dewey?

 

[F_Marturana]

He lied about his disability

He didn’t have Polio?

 

[Road-Worrier]

He didn’t have Polio?

He lied about being wheelchair bound.

 

[Ridgerunner]

But would anybody trade him in for Herbert Hoover

Although both were big government fellows, at least Hoover learned the true nature of the Stalinist regime and did not turn tens of thousands of people over to the Soviets for execution, as FDR did.