YOGA...ooer!

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Comments by the Pope and by priests and apologists and also a very valid Vatican document has been cited on here, as well as other first-hand stories, so when you make a comment such as this: ‘Does this website replace the magisterium?’, you might see how your post reads as a denial of what has already been made known.
 
friardchips said:
Now, your interpretation is erroneous over things which have been made most certain.

The highest authority in the Church - THE POPE - advised against Yoga for spiritual reasons : whole point behind the thread (outlined on the first page, in fact).
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Then in proper context he also “advises” against the catechism.

“You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you.”
friardchips said:
And the Vatican document on New Age clearly expresses the same sentiments. I would go further in advising exactly what the new poster advised to anyone who considers it okay to do Yoga as a Christian in full confidence that this is the general opinion of the Church to stay away from it - despite heretical writers cited on here stating the opposite.
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That document provided questions for discernment rather than the damning blanket statement you suppose:

**

The following questions may be the easiest key to evaluating some of the central elements of New Age thought and practice from a Christian standpoint. “New Age” refers to the ideas which circulate about God, the human being and the world, the people with whom Christians may have conversations on religious matters, the publicity material for meditation groups, therapies and the like, explicit statements on religion and so on. Some of these questions applied to people and ideas not explicitly labelled New Age would reveal further unnamed or unacknowledged links with the whole New Age atmosphere.

“Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?**
God is a being with whom we have a relationship. Yoga Stretches can help us offer our bodies to God, help us to relax in God and help us to enjoy the gift of our bodies. It honors our incarnation.
  • **Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs? **There is only one Christ whether ones does yoga stretches or not.
*** The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?** We are each unique individuals embodied in great gifts. This has nothing to do with stretching other than utilizing the gift God has given us.

*** Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God? **Salvation is a free gift from God and has nothing to do with stretches.

*** Do we invent truth or do we embrace it? **We embrace the truth starting with the Gospel and actual Church teaching.

*** Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?** We open our hearts and minds to God. Stretches and postures, including prostrations and kneeling can help us do that.”
friardchips said:
And you yourself have gone this way and that, one minute saying you don’t practice Yoga for spiritual reasons and only doing it for exercise, then the next minute suggesting it is okay. I have no idea where your personal opinions lie because of your swaying dramatically in the wind during each separate bout of discussion; nevertheless, the advice has been given. Not by me. By those who do know what they are talking about and in the position to guide us with knowledge that is no doubt most accurate.
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I do it for both physical and spiritual reasons but many can do it simply for physical reasons.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Then in proper context he also “advises” against the catechism.
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NO, he doesn’t! :mad:

Until you go back and look over reasons why this has been explained away many, many times already on this thread, I am simply not going to acknowledge your other sentiments. You and various other posters have continually avoided any attempt to be open to sensible reasoning and ignored my logical explanation over the Pope’s comments which serve to refute, quite clearly, your counter-argument regarding the word ‘catechism’.

:takethat:
 
friardchips said:
NO, he doesn’t! :mad:

Until you go back and look over reasons why this has been explained away many, many times already on this thread, I am simply not going to acknowledge your other sentiments. You and various other posters have continually avoided any attempt to be open to sensible reasoning and ignored my logical explanation over the Pope’s comments which serve to refute, quite clearly, your counter-argument regarding the word ‘catechism’.

:takethat:
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But you have not really explained anything. You danced around what was plainly written and skewed his words and meaning to fit your own bias.
 
friardchips said:
Pope Francis included the word “Catechism” in his warning / advice which clearly suggests he was speaking to Catholics. This makes sense. He did not go into detail, which suggests that ANY combination of Yoga, any at all, with or without Christian prayer, is not advisable because the objective of prayer is to be with/commune with.
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Yes catechism suggest he was speaking to Catholics. So what?

How do you jump from that to yoga is not advisable?
 
friardchips said:
NO, he doesn’t! :mad:

Until you go back and look over reasons why this has been explained away many, many times already on this thread, I am simply not going to acknowledge your other sentiments. You and various other posters have continually avoided any attempt to be open to sensible reasoning and ignored my logical explanation over the Pope’s comments which serve to refute, quite clearly, your counter-argument regarding the word ‘catechism’.

:takethat:
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This is an unreasonable way of conducting a discussion.

It appears to a lot of us that you have never answered the point about catechism. You claim that you have, but you refuse to give the number of the post where you did so.

I know it’s frustrating to keep getting asked about something you think you’ve resolved. But it’s highly unreasonable to ask people to reread an entire long thread searching for a needle in a haystack.

Michael Mayo, being the class act he is, has shouldered this unreasonable burden and found your post 580, in which you say:
Pope Francis included the word “Catechism” in his warning / advice which clearly suggests he was speaking to Catholics. This makes sense. He did not go into detail, which suggests that ANY combination of Yoga, any at all, with or without Christian prayer, is not advisable because the objective of prayer is to be with/commune with.
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So this appears to be your best effort so far, and it’s frankly ridiculous. He said the same things about catechism he said about yoga. His mention of catechism doesn’t just indicate that he’s talking to Catholics. It’s a list of things that will not, in themselves, bring you closer to God. You interpret it to mean that this collection of things as a whole won’t bring you to God because they are contaminated by being done together with yoga. That’s not convincing at all. He lists them all equally. He doesn’t say, “yoga is so bad that it will hurt your spiritual life even if you do catechism as well,” He said, “none of these things will bring you close to God,” clearly meaning “in and of themselves, done as rote acts.”

If this is your best effort, I think you have pretty clearly lost the argument about what Pope Francis meant.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
If this is your best effort, I think you have pretty clearly lost the argument about what Pope Francis meant.

Edwin
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He’s been arguing since the beginning of the thread that Pope Francis said what he clearly did not say. There’s really no point in arguing with such a strong denial of reality.
 
friardchips said:
please…
go back and
read the dialogue

:tsktsk:
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Same again.

Please go back and read the dialogue concerning his words.

If you can’t understand his words then admit it but please refrain from the usual attempts at circumventing the reasoned explanation.
 
Contarini said:
This is an unreasonable way of conducting a discussion.

It appears to a lot of us that you have never answered the point about catechism. You claim that you have, but you refuse to give the number of the post where you did so.

I know it’s frustrating to keep getting asked about something you think you’ve resolved. But it’s highly unreasonable to ask people to reread an entire long thread searching for a needle in a haystack.

Michael Mayo, being the class act he is, has shouldered this unreasonable burden and found your post 580, in which you say:

So this appears to be your best effort so far, and it’s frankly ridiculous. He said the same things about catechism he said about yoga. His mention of catechism doesn’t just indicate that he’s talking to Catholics. It’s a list of things that will not, in themselves, bring you closer to God. You interpret it to mean that this collection of things as a whole won’t bring you to God because they are contaminated by being done together with yoga. That’s not convincing at all. He lists them all equally. He doesn’t say, “yoga is so bad that it will hurt your spiritual life even if you do catechism as well,” He said, “none of these things will bring you close to God,” clearly meaning “in and of themselves, done as rote acts.”

If this is your best effort, I think you have pretty clearly lost the argument about what Pope Francis meant.

Edwin
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Contarini, not sure why you are hoping for discussion with me. I find your posts unsavoury at best and have made this known to you. I have not changed my position since?! 🤷
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Yes catechism suggest he was speaking to Catholics. So what?

How do you jump from that to yoga is not advisable?
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This is but one tiny fraction of the discussion on this line of dialogue. It always reaches a certain point and then I’ll get no reply and quite frankly I’m fed up with it. Either respond accordingly, in charity, or don’t bother at all.
 
friardchips said:
This is but one tiny fraction of the discussion on this line of dialogue. It always reaches a certain point and then I’ll get no reply and quite frankly I’m fed up with it. Either respond accordingly, in charity, or don’t bother at all.
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Show me what you think I should respond to if you want a response.

The only spiritual “danger” of yoga I can see is buying into some aspects of the philosophy that might include self salvation, self as God, loss of individuality, God as impersonal force or worship of some god who is actually a personification of some concept.

The stretches in themselves are merely bodily position independent of philosophy just as other self disciplines. :signofcross:
 
friardchips said:
My explanation stands. It is not my fault if you can’t understand it. Please go back and try again.
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It stands like a house of cards or a building on a foundation of sand. What I understand is that you are trying to use Church authority to advance your position concerning yoga, but the evidence for your fallacious claim is not there. Please show me somewhere, anywhere, where Pope Francis actually tells us, his flock, not to do yoga. You cannot, because it does not exist. You have a better leg to stand on with Pope Benedict, who did offer warnings, and his warnings, which are not condemnations, are duly noted.
 
All I can say is when my herniated discs are flaring up you will find me doing lots and lots of Upward Facing Dog. It’s the only thing that works.

But I don’t think it’s a sin because I call it a Press Up.
 
on_the_hill said:
All I can say is when my herniated discs are flaring up you will find me doing lots and lots of Upward Facing Dog. It’s the only thing that works.

But I don’t think it’s a sin because I call it a Press Up.
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Hello. Welcome to the house of fun. Get out, while you can! 👋
 
christofirst said:
It stands like a house of cards or a building on a foundation of sand. What I understand is that you are trying to use Church authority to advance your position concerning yoga, but the evidence for your fallacious claim is not there. Please show me somewhere, anywhere, where Pope Francis actually tells us, his flock, not to do yoga. You cannot, because it does not exist. You have a better leg to stand on with Pope Benedict, who did offer warnings, and his warnings, which are not condemnations, are duly noted.
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You are right.

With your reasoning you are right: Pope Francis said this for…

…absolutely no reason. Of course! I should have known all along. He said it to mean nothing and for no reason! How could I have missed this?! :whacky:
 
agnes_therese said:
He’s been arguing since the beginning of the thread that Pope Francis said what he clearly did not say. There’s really no point in arguing with such a strong denial of reality.
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Agnes-Therese, you have been right all along! It struck me - your reasoning:

If Pope Francis did not warn against Yoga, when he warned against Yoga, then he must have said what he said for absolutely no reason…how did you see this because I just didn’t spot it. I completely missed that he could have spoken for no reason and warned against Yoga when not meaning to.

😃
 
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