YOGA...ooer!

[friardchips]

We have the ability to center it on him just as we do with celibacy, with bells at Mass, with incense, etc

Prayer cannot be likened to bells and whistles. This is the mistake those heretics made before they lost their faith in India. You know, the ones a few of you think are worth reading.

Not at all. That is all your baggage.

Denial of spiritual danger does not make the possibility of danger obsolete.

No my baggage as you less than graciously put it. I am sharing the views of real Religious, as opposed to enthusaists and opportunists, some of whom have been quoted on here.

People can be led all sorts of ways by all sorts of things. Look as Westboro Baptists. So what?

A nothing statement again. You’re fond of these.

Now who is being disrespectful?

To understand that question you have to know what ‘respectful’ means. Ask the same questions to your colleagues who are sharing your passion for Yoga. Let me explain: you obviously don’t read the news or you have no easy access to it because if you did you would not progate the idea that Yoga is advisable.

I never claimed otherwise.

Christian Yoga puts the emphasis too much on the position.

From Yoga philosophy PHILOSOPHY.

Yoga is buried deep, entangled, in the ambiguous primitive belief system and philosophies of the Hindu religion. You may think you can separate and tell Christians it is okay to practice safely, but you are simply advocating something that is dangerous for Christians, because ultimately opinion all over the place from Catholic sources, is that it is not. And as long as you continue to do this, I consider you an enemy of the Church, and of other people’s safety who might see this thread (I hope the number of viewers decreases dramatically so they don’t take in even a shred of the misinformation on here from you and some other posters).

Have you ever tried to untangle a very fine chain necklace? That is the logic of your Post 925. Twisted and tangled. But I will try.:bowdown:

Please do. It will be fun, no frustrating, reading you making yet another mess of (failing to) interpreting my posts. As if they need it.

 

[friardchips]

Very funny!

 

[friardchips]

The Pope may not be endorsing it here but in the often cited document *LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION *there is a section that I do believe endorses “Psychological-Corporal Methods” sicne that is the titel of the section stating:

1. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html

Do you not remember that we have already discussed this line of dialogue concerning this document?!

Because we did. Why don’t you go back and remind youself. Or maybe you never read the posts or at least didn’t take them in because if you did you would not keep bringing up the same conversations. All over again. Deja vu.

 

[friardchips]

So we are wasting our time in catechism class? You miss the point again. The only thing he is saying about catechism and yoga is that without the love of the Holy Spirit we will not find freedom. But with the love of the Holy Spirit, well, all thing are possible with faith.

So what type of Yoga was Pope Francis talking about? Was he talking about Western Yoga? Was he talking about Yoga as exercise routines? Or was he talking about Christian Yoga? My point: did he specify?

There is a point to my question. What type of Yoga did Pope Francis specify? What did he mean when he said YOGA?

You deduce wrongly. He speaks of them together because in this context they share the inadequacy of the love of the Holy Spirit in themselves. That is all

No and Yes.

Yes but that is not an advisement NOT to do those things. It is just s statement about their spiritual emptiness without the Holy Spirit.

No and Yes.

It is not pointless if we seek and find physical and psychological benefits. It is then not a waste of time.

His comment doesn’t even reach that far with Yoga.

Yes.

ok

What do you mean: ‘yes’ and ‘okay’? You can’t separate these questions from the whole. We take everything he said in one. You are splitting everything up to suit your thinking (maybe not on purpose).

Yes, for spiritual benefit. But we can bring prayer into all that we do including catechism and yoga and walking and breathing and running, etc.:hammering:

So you really think that a Pope is going to say to Catholics to practice Yoga? So sure are you that you know he was talking about a specific type of Yoga that would suit your argument.

Ask yourself this: in all honesty, what type of Yoga was he talking about?

I can answer this for you. The type of Yoga that has philosophies. WHY?

Because he spoke about ZEN. And Zen is a meditational process as is the type of Yoga that the Pope was talking about.

And why else was he talking about the spiritual-seeking Yoga - because he said we can do all these things but will not find (and the rest)…etc…meaning that he is referring to the type of Yoga which people practice in order to seek spiritual awareness.

That is what type of Yoga he was referring to: Yoga. You follow? And so if he was talking about the big blue avatar Yoga in the sky then he is hardly going to then advocate praying with the use of those philosophies. I don’t know if he even knows if there is Yoga without philosophies attached to it. This was a summing up of Yoga practice in its entirety - being the seeking of spiritual awareness rooted in Hindu origins.

 

[friardchips]

You know what just struck me:

Maybe it is likely that Pope Francis DOES know about ‘Christian’ Yoga!

And if he did, then why, if he did know about ‘Christian’ Yoga, did he then feel the need to say about Yoga not helping to find peace. Surely, if one were to do such a practice as ‘Christian’ Yoga, and find peace, then he would not have mentioned Yoga, because anthing ‘Christian’, in intention, is about seeking the Holy Spirit. Yet, he mentioned Yoga. Not ‘Christian’ Yoga. So if he is clued up as to a practice such as ‘Christian’ Yoga then he went and lumped it in with original Yoga, Hindu philosophies and all, by not specifying. You understand?

Look, if he changes his mind, or he elaborates further and we find that the media misquoted him and he was in fact advocating Yoga and Zen practice as okay for Christians, then I’ll review my opinion and certainly won’t post anything against his!

If, he does.

 

[friardchips]

Just for the reflection I thought I would answer all the discernment questions of the new Age document in terms of yoga.

*** Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?**
God is a being with whom we have a relationship. Yoga Stretches can help us offer our bodies to God, help us to relax in God and help us to enjoy the gift of our bodies. It honors our incarnation.

*** Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?**
There is only one Christ whether ones does yoga stretches or not.

*** The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals? **
We are each unique individuals embodied in great gifts. This has nothing to do with stretching other than utilizing the gift God has given us.

*** Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?**
Salvation is a free gift from God and has nothing to do with stretches.

*** Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?**
We embrace the truth starting with the Gospel and actual Church teaching.

*** Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?**
We open our hearts and minds to God. Stretches and postures, including prostrations and kneeling can help us do that.

*** Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?**
A denial or acceptance of sin does not come into consideration with yoga.

*** Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?**
We are encourage to be fully aware of our incarnation and the state of our bodies.

*** Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?**
Social commitment is not addressed.

*** Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?** The future is not a subject on yoga.

I’d like everything you said if it weren’t an attempt to endorse an heretical practice into the Catholic Church. Therefore, making it null and void, IMO. But your conscience is your conscience. If you don’t care about the Yoga philosophies then why not do other exercise not called Yoga. Simple: you won’t because you embrace all that the Hindu religion offers. This sounds fine in a progressively ‘positive’ way but in actual fact the persons of our Creator are not impersonal and they are not ambiguous. The opposite is true. It is the people we are to embrace not every primitive philosophy.

 

[Contarini]

I’d like everything you said if it weren’t an attempt to endorse an heretical practice into the Catholic Church.

But in a thread of nearly a thousand posts, you haven’t managed to make a case for why it’s heretical. You have blatantly misrepresented Pope Francis. You show considerable ignorance about yoga and Hinduism, and when people point out to you how complex and diverse Hinduism is you try to make that an argument against yoga. Your position at times borders on total incoherence.

You can’t actually find fault with what Michael says, but you desperately want to anyway.

The opposite is true. It is the people we are to embrace not every primitive philosophy.

Primitive?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

You know what just struck me:

Maybe it is likely that Pope Francis DOES know about ‘Christian’ Yoga!

And if he did, then why, if he did know about ‘Christian’ Yoga, did he then feel the need to say about Yoga not helping to find peace. Surely, if one were to do such a practice as ‘Christian’ Yoga, and find peace, then he would not have mentioned Yoga, because anthing ‘Christian’, in intention, is about seeking the Holy Spirit. Yet, he mentioned Yoga. Not ‘Christian’ Yoga. So if he is clued up as to a practice such as ‘Christian’ Yoga then he went and lumped it in with original Yoga, Hindu philosophies and all, by not specifying. You understand?

Look, if he changes his mind, or he elaborates further and we find that the media misquoted him and he was in fact advocating Yoga and Zen practice as okay for Christians, then I’ll review my opinion and certainly won’t post anything against his!

If, he does.

But he doesn’t need to revisit anything, because he simply mentioned yoga along with other practices, including traditional Christian catechesis, in which people may mistakenly trust as a kind of machinery for getting them closer to God.

His meaning is pretty clear to everyone except you.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Do you not remember that we have already discussed this line of dialogue concerning this document?!

Because we did. Why don’t you go back and remind youself. Or maybe you never read the posts or at least didn’t take them in because if you did you would not keep bringing up the same conversations. All over again. Deja vu.

We keep bringing them up because your answers have not been convincing. You keep shrugging off clear evidence against you, and relying on tortured interpretations of relatively less authoritative texts.

You just don’t have a case, and that has become more and more evident as this thread has progressed.

Edwin

 

[Michael_Mayo]

And as long as you continue to do this, I consider you an enemy of the Church,

If that is not an insult then I don’t know what is.

Your thin chained necklace is tangled beyond remedy and you like it that way. You think that is the way it ought to be. It seems fitting to quote Pope Francis, “What an imagination!”

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I’d like everything you said if it weren’t an attempt to endorse an heretical practice into the Catholic Church. Therefore, making it null and void, IMO.

That is exactly your problem. You can find nothing wrong with what I said, but your bias, your prejudice, your spiritual bigotry forces you to nullify even what you agree with.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Edwin

More like

:banghead: :hypno:

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Simple: you won’t because you embrace all that the Hindu religion offers.

Support that statement. I have said countless times that we can and do separate the positions form the philosophy. You do it also when you kneel.

 

[friardchips]

If that is not an insult then I don’t know what is.

Your thin chained necklace is tangled beyond remedy and you like it that way. You think that is the way it ought to be. It seems fitting to quote Pope Francis, “What an imagination!”

Anyone who, whether consciously or not, invites a watering down of belief in the basic tenets of our faith, into the Church, is obviously in opposition to the Church, whether you see, or not.

 

[friardchips]

Support that statement. I have said countless times that we can and do separate the positions form the philosophy. You do it also when you kneel.

Your posts point to you being disingenous in this matter. Because, you say you have no interest in the philosophical side of Yoga, and that practicing Yoga does not lead those who do Yoga further into Hinduism, when you, yourself, already know heaps about all these different Yoga philosophies, which in itself, is evidence of your already firmly-planted stance on the subject. IOW, you have a biased opinion formed by your appetite.

This is the difference. You are practicing Yoga and have researched deeper into Yoga therefore making your position on the matter of Yoga untrustworthily bias in favour of it.

I have no biased opinion. When looking into the subject and reading around it, without intent to try, I formed an opinion first, which took deeper root the more I entered into the debates, prior to this thread, from a perspective of solid Catholic understanding. By the time I began this thread, I was baised against but remained open to discovery and have loosened my bias opinion a little but not in a strong enough way to endorse Yoga, as I still think it is not advisable.

My opinion against Yoga for Christians was formed my analysing, asking questions and debating.

Your opinion was formed by your desire to practice - proved, by the fact that you are arguing as a Yoga d’ooer, and thus unable to remain objective.

 

[friardchips]

More like

:banghead: :hypno:

Those emoticons represent many of the emotionally-charged counter-arguments by you and your colleagues, thus giving rise to a clear assessment of an infliction, caused by the Yoga influence. I am hoping you might combobulate the truth sooner rather than later.

Any philosophies that detract from mainstay Christian belief could be regarded as infestation.

 

[christofirst]

Friardchips,

If you would just say that you personally are not comfortable with anything having to do with a religion other than Catholicism, I would happily accept that. You can give the various reasons for your personal belief, some of which are indeed backed up by individual members of the Church (certain clergy and* Women of Grace*, for example).

It is when you try to make blanket statements or draw conclusions as though it is the official teaching of the Church which we all must follow - **when in fact it is not **- this is when I must take issue with some of the things you post here.

I appreciate that you mean well, but you occasionally overstep your authority where our relationship with other religions (in general) and Christians practicing yoga (specifically) are concerned. Is it possible for you to agree that your position is one,** but not the only one**, allowed by the Church?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Hi guys.
Ya’ll seem to be enjoying your debate, which I am assuming is cordial since I have had no complaints about it, and rarely even look at it.
You are coming to that magic 1000 mark though. When you get there, feel free to start another thread.
I’ll ignore that one too.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Hi guys.
Ya’ll seem to be enjoying your debate, which I am assuming is cordial since I have had no complaints about it, and rarely even look at it.
You are coming to that magic 1000 mark though. When you get there, feel free to start another thread.
I’ll ignore that one too.

You have been very wise to ignore this thread. I only wish I had also ignored it.

 

[GKC]

You have been very wise to ignore this thread. I only wish I had also ignored it.

It is possible to do that, I’ve found.